Ashe vs. Master Yi: Doesn't this seem completely and utterly unfair?

darkdill··4 votes·3,551 views

Ashe can't slow Master Yi, and thus can't even crit him when he's using his ultimate. This more-or-less cuts her damage in half against him later in the game. You'd think Riot would've separated the slow and the Frost Shot "check to crit" parts, but nope, they're the same. As such, since Yi almost never will fight with Highlander down, and his ultimate's cooldown isn't even that long, Ashe will never have a window of opportunity in which she can safely engage Yi.

Her only hope is ECA, but Yi can easily dodge that with Alpha Strike, negating Ashe's only defense. Now, you'll probably just say "Ashe shouldn't stray from her teammates", but realistically that's not always possible, or Yi could avoid being peeled off her. And last, Ashe can't even build defense against him because Randuin's doesn't work on ADCs, and Yi gets true damage from Wuju Style anyways.

Players should always have some way of dealing with an opponent one way or another, but in the Ashe vs. Yi case, there is NO solution. Ashe just automatically loses and the onus is entirely on another player to save Ashe.

Doesn't that feel wrong? I thought 100% hard-counters weren't really allowed.

30 Comments

Brody Biggu2 votes

Lolwhut

Ashe > Getting Nerfed MasterYi > Crap vs almost every tank or hard cc

darkdill1 votes

Irrelevant. The issue is that there's no bigger hard-counter than Yi vs. Ashe.

Strawberrycocoa2 votes

If Ashe only has 1 hard counter, she's doing perfectly fine.

50000000000000001 votes

Morgana's black shield and Olaf's ultimate also ignore slow. Although, black shield and ragnarok run out quickly compared to highlander, so they aren't as hard counters.

Only Play Darius3 votes

Actually, item 3153 is core on Yi, and he gets on-hit true damage along with ridiculous attack speed during his ult. He simply melts tanks 1v1 and comes out of it with almost full HP.

BluePolarizer1 votes

only in 1v1s. That's why he is the counterpick to Nasus top; once Yi has Tabis there's nothing Nasus can do about him, while pre-6 he pokes Nasus out of lane with Q alone on flask.

in 5v5s against CC tanks, there's not much he can do.

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dq5dOxTk,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-06-03T03:49:05.141+0000)

Actually, item 3153 is core on Yi, and he gets on-hit true damage along with ridiculous attack speed during his ult. He simply melts tanks 1v1 and comes out of it with almost full HP.

Any melee carry with a BotRK is a nightmare anyway, he just proc that better.

Against gang ups, he still blows up faster than his own farts.

zane yalgir1 votes

{quoted}

Any melee carry with a BotRK is a nightmare anyway, he just proc that better.

Against gang ups, he still blows up faster than his own farts.

cc is nothing a good q doesn't dodge

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=zane yalgir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dq5dOxTk,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2015-06-03T06:17:14.724+0000)

cc is nothing a good q doesn't dodge

Then he just lost his gapcloser, escape and dodge for like 10 - 20 seconds until he gets to AA or kill somebody to refresh it.

zane yalgir1 votes

{quoted}

Then he just lost his gapcloser, escape and dodge for like 10 - 20 seconds until he gets to AA or kill somebody to refresh it.

hes a battle picker only time he ever starts the fight is when hes fed as fuck and its pre 40 mins

Rabid Husky2 votes

ya they should just make it so it applys the crit but ignores the slow that's what i would do but hey im not riot and yes there are counters but the idea is noone can completely negate the core of another kit until riot overlooked yis ult compared to ashes new passive yi is already a issue but now it turns ashe into a liability when yis around and people like to forget yis ability to vanish and cling to enemy's so while ulting or flanking if ashe is in the middle he can easily assassinate her in the beginning of a fight even surrounded by cc using tanking tanks

darkdill1 votes

This.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Too bad that ashe counters anyone without a gapcloser...

darkdill2 votes

Not necessarily. Righteous Glory lets you reach her quickly, and not even she can slow you by that much.

Gigahappytown1 votes

Um i'm pretty sure its been proven they don't have to be slowed just have frost shot applied to them.. and who cares ashe is a hard counter to everyone without a escape or gapcloser So what if she has 1 hard counter out 123 champions

BluePolarizer1 votes

Yi vs. Ashe 1v1 is a skill matchup.

If Yi Q's onto Ashe, Ashe can just point blank arrow him and kill him with crits (debuff still applies). If Yi runs up to Ashe, he takes huge damage from her ranged attacks. All Ashe needs to do is hold her ult. The way to kill Ashe 100% guaranteed is to flank her from fog so that you get some autos in, forcing her to ult or die, then dodge the ult at the last second.

Of course, no game is 1v1. If Yi gets stunned, even with a bruiser build, he dies to Ashe dealing zero damage.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Yi vs. Ashe 1v1 is a skill matchup.

If Yi Q's onto Ashe, Ashe can just point blank arrow him and kill him with crits (debuff still applies). If Yi runs up to Ashe, he takes huge damage from her ranged attacks. All Ashe needs to do is hold her ult. The way to kill Ashe 100% guaranteed is to flank her from fog so that you get some autos in, forcing her to ult or die, then dodge the ult at the last second.

Of course, no game is 1v1. If Yi gets stunned, even with a bruiser build, he dies to Ashe dealing zero damage.

Pretty sure Yi has the advantage if his Ult is up.

BluePolarizer1 votes

but its not a sure win.

I have 300+ games of Yi in high gold to medium plat elo over 2 seasons.

NemeBro1 votes

I'd like to fucking hope Master Yi could duel Ashe.

Only Play Darius1 votes

IKR! ADC mains cry about everything.

"OMG Rito plz nerf, my squishy ADC ass can't 1v1 one of the most well known duelists in the game!"

darkdill1 votes

I actually main junglers.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Right now Ashe is very close to outclassing all the other ADC's in the game due to the fact that her kit has utility AND raw damage. At the very least she is back to her cancerous permaslow state that justified all the mobility creep that has been added to the game lately.

darkdill1 votes

Hence why Riot is nerfing her a bit. Her Q won't work on turrets, and her W is losing base damage at early ranks to give her more vulnerability early on.

Dueling power is just something she's now got. If you let her get 5 stacks and let her flurry you, you kinda deserve to get smacked up. There is such a thing as "back off and let her steroid time-out".

Lugg1 votes

You can always just ult him and kill him.

darkdill1 votes

Ashe fires ult, Yi dodges with Alpha Strike. Ashe is dead.

After all, Yi doesn't need Alpha Strike to approach Ashe when he can just use Highlander and Youmuu's Ghostblade.

Lugg1 votes

If Yi can dodge Ashe's ult, he deserves to kill her.

SEKAI1 votes

Counter pick exists you know,

Much like how you don't pick say Riven into Garen (assuming Garen is no longer UP), you don't pick Ashe into Yi as he is immune to slows.

Unless you are completely sure that this YI is done before he even gets a chance to reach lvl 6, or you make darn sure your ulti never misses.

67chrome1 votes

Doesn't that feel wrong? I thought 100% hard-counters weren't really allowed.

LoL isn't about 1v1 fights, it isn't about 1v1 duels, and it isn't even about getting a high KDA or gold.

It's a 5v5 game centered around blowing up your opponent's sand castle.

So Riot doesn't balance their game around being a 1v1.

This is more a case of Ashe not being designed to win games through 1v1 tactics and Yi being designed to win the game through 1v1 tactics.

kanacho1 votes

It's a team game so it shouldn't be a problem. An adc should be having to fight yi 1v1 usually anyway...

Icestar11861 votes

Any ADC that 1v1s Yi is dead (barring truly epic kiting skills), but yeah, this seems a bit odd.

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