Is there a reason you would pick Renekton over Darius?

darkdill·Oct 17, 2016·1 votes·1,441 views

Having access to a dash and a stun don't quite make up for Renekton having so much less power than Darius does. Darius gets way more AD from his passive, much better sustain, he has a powerful true damage nuke for an ult, and he even tends to end up tougher than Renekton in late-game.

Maybe Renekton's being used in Worlds, I dunno (I don't watch the matches; too busy playing games). But it feels to be like Renekton's just... inferior. Power creep can be such a pain.

37 Comments

Swiftstrike4Oct 17, 20164 votes

After the juggernauts were reworked the pros played a lot of juggernauts and . The reason being that renekton was considered a counter to darius and he still is.

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

After the juggernauts were reworked the pros played a lot of juggernauts and . The reason being that renekton was considered a counter to darius and he still is.

Yes, laning against renekton as Darius isn't fun, and it requires playing passive until you reach level 6, when you can start to test the waters. By level 11, if you haven't fed renekton, you should be able to very safely duel him. By level 16, you can absolutely dominate renekton whether it's teamfighting or dueling.

RequiemsfireOct 18, 20161 votes

Yeah but at level 16 you aren't dueling Darius, you're fighting his squishies. Renekton simply has that advantage on where he can escape any kind initiation by darius with his mobility and hard CC.

When we're that far into the game, we ask the question not which toplaner is stronger in terms of raw damage but which champion is more valuable to their team. If Darius can land 5 stacks or execute a squishy with his ult, Darius straight up every time, if he can't well renekton doesn't rely on those kind of stacking mechanics.

Tychusfindlay919Oct 18, 20161 votes

Who said darius has to initiate renekton with a pull?

If Renekton uses slice and ruthless predator just to try and keep darius quiet long enough to dice to the backline the only damage he has left is cull the meek which is not enough enough to severely threaten squishies unless he has at least three damage items. If he tries to save ruthless and just tries to slice dice past darius, apprehend will force renekton back to darius's face. I simply cannot see how renekton can be any more useful than darius late game.

And that's fine, people dont pick renekton for his late game anyways. They want to dominate early mid.

Darius may have to rely on a stacking mechanic, but his massive tank and decent and extremely reliable peel in the form of apprehend guarantee usefulness against renekton and compared to renekton, and that's the least. At most, he far exceeds renekton in usefulness later game.

Torque BacklashOct 17, 20162 votes

Darius's immobility is a issue as a lane bully. If whomever stands their ground he will do more damage (without taking into account items, lvl, or skill). Renekton is a stronger lane bully. His burst and mobility is far higher. Darius is stronger as the game goes on and Renekton eventually can fall off. When someone picks Renekton they are planning to abuse their extreme pressure and end the game sooner. Renekton has options to fight foes that for many people would require itemizing vs. That is a main difference. They have different goals and different options.

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Torque Backlash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dp6KnTl8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-17T01:52:51.537+0000)

Darius's immobility is a issue as a lane bully. If whomever stands their ground he will do more damage (without taking into account items, lvl, or skill). Renekton is a stronger lane bully. His burst and mobility is far higher. Darius is stronger as the game goes on and Renekton eventually can fall off. When someone picks Renekton they are planning to abuse their extreme pressure and end the game sooner. Renekton has options to fight foes that for many people would require itemizing vs. That is a main difference. They have different goals and different options.

TL;DR as much as people like to think darius has an early oppressive, it's usually nowhere near as oppressive as renekton's. Darius has better scale not only as a frontliner that deals damage, but also as a tank.

XavanicOct 17, 20162 votes

They are 2 very different champs, darius is a juggarnaut while renekton is a diver, renekton is not nearly kited as easily where as a darius will be, and renekton has the ability to literally 1 shot squishies while being incredibly tanky, while darius needs his passive which he wont always get, in all honesty, darius is an inferior version of renekton

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They are 2 very different champs, darius is a juggarnaut while renekton is a diver, renekton is not nearly kited as easily where as a darius will be, and renekton has the ability to literally 1 shot squishies while being incredibly tanky, while darius needs his passive which he wont always get, in all honesty, darius is an inferior version of renekton

Wrong. Darius still has his pull, and unlike renekton, darius doesnt mind smacking around the enemy frontline tanks to get his passive up with relative safety.

Darius has more liberty to build way tankier (he also has way better base stats than renekton) and his sustain, because its missing %hp as opposed to flat, heavily outscales renekton's sustain. For god's sake isnt renekton's uppermost healing cap a lousy 450? Have you seen a low hp darius pull off a good decimate? The heal exceeds 1000 easily if you dont grievous wounds him.

Basically, darius, 90+% of the time is way more useful than renekton late game. Renekton has a waaaayy more oppressive early game.

XavanicOct 17, 20161 votes

yeah but this isn't league of late game, this is league of finishing the game by 25 min, so in all honesty, darius isn't very relevant right now

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

yeah but this isn't league of late game, this is league of finishing the game by 25 min, so in all honesty, darius isn't very relevant right now

Amazing, and despite that, Darius still has a better: play rate, a better win rate, and he's banned over 20X more than renekton

It seems that everything out there states that Renekton is inferior to darius. I'm sure your silver wisdom can explain why these PLATINUM+ statistics are the way they are.

Not only that, but these statistics are AFTER THE FACT THAT DARIUS HAS BEEN STRUGGLING FAR MORE THIS PATCH THAN IN RECENT PATCHES.

Wind WhistlerOct 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Amazing, and despite that, Darius still has a better: play rate, a better win rate, and he's banned over 20X more than renekton

It seems that everything out there states that Renekton is inferior to darius. I'm sure your silver wisdom can explain why these PLATINUM+ statistics are the way they are.

A lot of Renekton's poor statistics can be attributed to the people who play him. A legitimate Renekton player is quite the rare find, which greatly saddens me.

XavanicOct 18, 20161 votes

I am a top lane main and I have to say I feel like I can carry better on Rekenton then most top laners, (only being outclassed by olaf and mundo)

Wind WhistlerOct 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I am a top lane main and I have to say I feel like I can carry better on Rekenton then most top laners, (only being outclassed by olaf and mundo)

Agreed. I used to be able to carry pretty damn well with Cho'Gath, but the nerfs to his silence make it so much harder. Renekton is my go to guy now.

Wind WhistlerOct 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They are 2 very different champs, darius is a juggarnaut while renekton is a diver, renekton is not nearly kited as easily where as a darius will be, and renekton has the ability to literally 1 shot squishies while being incredibly tanky, while darius needs his passive which he wont always get, in all honesty, darius is an inferior version of renekton

Is it wrong that I've been able to one shot tanks late game as AD Renekton?

XavanicOct 17, 20161 votes

nah, he has stupid high ad ratios (literally 700 dmg off w with just 2 dmg items), combined with a black cleaver/last whisper tanks don't stand a chance

Wind WhistlerOct 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

nah, he has stupid high ad ratios (literally 700 dmg off w with just 2 dmg items), combined with a black cleaver/last whisper tanks don't stand a chance

Okay, good, lol. It's so fun to just instakill everything late game with 550 AD while still being difficult to take down.

RiteshOct 17, 20162 votes

Take it from a Darius main, that dash and high damage stun makes all the difference. Late game as Darius if the enemy team isn't stupid you're going to be kited and jungled to the point you cant make use of your passive except to the enemy frontline and the enemy backline will be pelting you to death. Renekton on the other hand with empowered W Q and titanic can delete any1 in the backline that doesnt have GA

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Son of Whyachi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dp6KnTl8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-17T01:54:45.976+0000)

Take it from a Darius main, that dash and high damage stun makes all the difference. Late game as Darius if the enemy team isn't stupid you're going to be kited and jungled to the point you cant make use of your passive except to the enemy frontline and the enemy backline will be pelting you to death. Renekton on the other hand with empowered W Q and titanic can delete any1 in the backline that doesnt have GA

With only a titanic hydra? No he cant. He'll be a paperweight with absolutely no peel potential. And just as darius is kitable, so too is renekton peelable. Once instance of hard cc immediately shuts down renekton's ability to get to the backline. Not only that, the total range of his double dash is unreliable since it needs to hit something on the first dash, and no competent frontliners is just going to let renekton dash through them to the backline before peeling renekton.

XavanicOct 17, 20162 votes

thats not true, i have played alot of renekton, and unless they have a janna, one instance of hard cc wont stop you, and if they focus you, it means your mid laner/adc arent being focused, so either way its a win win, and while i do agree he also needs a bc, thats still only 2 dmg items, that give defensive stats anyways

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

thats not true, i have played alot of renekton, and unless they have a janna, one instance of hard cc wont stop you, and if they focus you, it means your mid laner/adc arent being focused, so either way its a win win, and while i do agree he also needs a bc, thats still only 2 dmg items, that give defensive stats anyways

It's been a while since I last had the unfortunate opportunity to play in Silver ranked. I have since ascended from such divisions.

Tell me, when you get hard CC'd after using slice, does the backline back up or do they figure "hurr durr he's stunned so we can just stand where we are and continue smacking him" I'd be willing to bet that many times they don't readjust their gap to maximum potential after using a hard cc ability. Against competent teams renekton will usually only ever interact with the enemy frontline, which he deals pitiful damage against with only cleaver hydra.

Went over the "defensive stats" thing with you, straight up HP, and a pitiful amount at that, is hardly any significant boost to one's defense.

The DeckownerOct 17, 20162 votes

renekton is much stronger against mobile/ranged top laners, while darius bullies immobile fighters and tanks better.

ApocalypsicOct 17, 20162 votes

I'd argue Renekton is stronger.

Not only does he dominate lane harder and win it under most all situations, but he's also more useful out of lane disrupting back lines and annihilating squishes

Both only need cleaver for damage really but Renekton is going to dash in and one shot whilst Darius has to lumber menacingly at them.

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sexy Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dp6KnTl8,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-10-17T03:24:57.238+0000)

I'd argue Renekton is stronger.

Not only does he dominate lane harder and win it under most all situations, but he's also more useful out of lane disrupting back lines and annihilating squishes

Both only need cleaver for damage really but Renekton is going to dash in and one shot whilst Darius has to lumber menacingly at them.

Renekton needs more than cleaver. He needs to build damage to do damage, it doesnt matter if he can dive if he cant delete or at least near-delete a squishie. His CDs are horrendously long.

ApocalypsicOct 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Renekton needs more than cleaver. He needs to build damage to do damage, it doesnt matter if he can dive if he cant delete or at least near-delete a squishie. His CDs are horrendously long.

Renekton doesn't NEED more than cleaver but he can opt into it if he wants, like grabbing titanic too.

But let's be straight here, you don't know what you're talking about, Renekton is, was, and probably will forever be known for his god tier base damages.

The homage of "Can you fight Renekton? No? Then don't go top" comes to mind. The list of champs that can go toe to toe with him is few and far between, most of them being cheesy ranged top laners.

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sexy Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dp6KnTl8,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2016-10-17T20:01:08.858+0000)

Renekton doesn't NEED more than cleaver but he can opt into it if he wants, like grabbing titanic too.

But let's be straight here, you don't know what you're talking about, Renekton is, was, and probably will forever be known for his god tier base damages.

The homage of "Can you fight Renekton? No? Then don't go top" comes to mind. The list of champs that can go toe to toe with him is few and far between, most of them being cheesy ranged top laners.

"god tier base damages"

From the wiki

RENEKTON

Base AD: 58.3 -----> 111

Cull the Meek Level 1 Base damage: 60 + 80% BONUS AD IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII REIGN OF ANGER Base Damage: 90 + 120% BONUS AD

Cull the Meek Max level Base damage: 180 + 80% BONUS AD IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII REIGN OF ANGER Base Damage: 270 + 120% BONUS AD

Ruthless Predator Level 1 Base damage: 10 + 150% TOTAL AD IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII REIGN OF ANGER Base Damage: 15 + 225% TOTAL AD

Ruthless Predator Max level Base damage: 90 + 150% TOTAL AD IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII REIGN OF ANGER Base Damage: 135 + 225% TOTAL AD

Slice and Dice Level 1 Base damage: 60 + 180% BONUS AD IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII REIGN OF ANGER Base Damage: 75 + 225% BONUS AD

Slice and Dice Max level Base damage: 300 + 180% BONUS AD IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII REIGN OF ANGER Base Damage: 375 + 225% BONUS AD

DARIUS

Base AD: 55.9 -----> 141

Decimate Level 1 Base damage: 40 + 100% TOTAL AD

Decimate Max level Base damage: 160 + 140% TOTAL AD

Crippling Strike all levels: TOTAL AD + 40% TOTAL AD

Apprehend: 5% -------> 25% total armor pen on everything Darius does

I won't even get into ultimates because Darius's, unless if activated with almost no stacks, almost always is more impactful when it comes to damage than renekton ultimate.

I won't get into Darius's passive which plays an integral part to everything Darius does and inherently strengthens everything Darius does. With the exception of ruthless predator, Renekton relies on building AD (bonus AD) in order to strengthen his abilities. Like I said, he has to actively build damage to really do damage. All of Darius's basic abilities scale off of his total AD, and with his insane base AD growth (beating renekton by an astonishing 30 more base AD at level 18), he truly can live with just a black cleaver while still being very threatening should he so choose to do so. The only thing renekton has that can somewhat beat darius in terms of base damage is his ruthless predator. Renekton has really good Bonus AD scalings, which reinforces building at least two damage items on him.

Renekton will always have better burst, because Darius's job isn't to burst until he gets to noxian might, that's why Darius is known for liking long fights. I won't even get into noxian might because noxian might darius absolutely blows away anything renekton can dream of in terms of damage outside of building full AD renekton.

I looked at the cooldowns.

RENEKTON Q: 8 seconds RENEKTON W: 13 -------> 9 seconds RENEKTON E: 18 -------> 14 seconds

DARIUS Q: 9 -------> 5 seconds DARIUS W: 9 -------> 5 seconds DARIUS E: 24 -------> 12 seconds

Darius has way shorter cooldowns towards the end of the game, allowing his damage output to be much more consistent, again, reinforcing the idea that he deals damage best over time until he gets that noxian might.

Well duh no one goes toe to toe with him top lane early game. But later game (which was the point behind my arguments thus far)? Multiple people can rek Renekton's face, and Darius is one of those champions that can EASILY demolish renekton with little effort later game, usually starting at around level 9 unless renekton is really far ahead.

SIDENOTE

And here comes everyone's favorite part, champion statistics from Platinum + ranked! provided by Champion.gg

Darius has a better: Play rate, win rate, and a higher ban rate

Objectively speaking, the league community, both directly and indirectly, declare Darius a better top laner than renekton overall.

Wind WhistlerOct 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sexy Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dp6KnTl8,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2016-10-17T20:01:08.858+0000)

But let's be straight here, you don't know what you're talking about, Renekton is, was, and probably will forever be known for his god tier base damages.

Um? God tier base damages? What the fuck are you talking about???

ApocalypsicOct 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Um? God tier base damages? What the fuck are you talking about???

I stand by my comment. Renekton has very potent base damages.

Tychusfindlay919Oct 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Sexy Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dp6KnTl8,comment-id=00070000000000010000,timestamp=2016-10-18T03:26:28.519+0000)

I stand by my comment. Renekton has very potent base damages.

Nope, he can't reliably sit on just one damage item and expect to delete anything. He has too much bonus ad scaling.

XavanicOct 17, 20162 votes

while he generally relies on cleaver/titanic combo, even those 2 items arent sacrificing a whole lot and if you hit 40% cdr his cds arent that bad. ever play with those 2 items? the dmg alone off those is disgusting

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

while he generally relies on cleaver/titanic combo, even those 2 items arent sacrificing a whole lot and if you hit 40% cdr his cds arent that bad. ever play with those 2 items? the dmg alone off those is disgusting

But it is a lot of sacrifice. Titanic hydra is hilariously mediocre when it comes to durability. It offers absolutely no resistances or any sort of defensive passive and gives 450 HP.

It could have been a item 3143 or a item 3065 or a item 3068 or what-have you.

Darius can output relatively the same damage and potentially WAAAAAAYYYY more with just cleaver alone. And of course, god forbid Darius get into noxian might, nothing Renekton can do can outdamage Darius.

Big LincolnOct 17, 20161 votes

Renekton has easier access to the back line and is harder to kite if he lands the first E.

Darius is more comfortable to hit the enemy tanks before he moves on the carries with his passive activated

SlythionOct 17, 20161 votes

Renekton is a Diver while Darius is more of a Frontliner there is no real reason to be comparing the two

(also, Darius only has a "true damage nuke" if he get's 5 stacks or kills a target with it)

YoobaOct 17, 20161 votes

I got from plat IV to Diamond V by one tricking Renekton. The champ is just too good when played right. I don't understand why he's underplayed. I agree that in some cases Darius outshines Renekton, especially late game, but I find Renekton superior to Darius in most cases.

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

Renekton has a more dominant lane phase than darius.

Believe me he does. He can go in and burst with relatively little retaliation if he pulls it off correctly, and his sustain is super strong early since it is flat heal and doesnt rely on hitting a champion to go off.

Darius has way better scaling.

XavanicOct 17, 20161 votes

yeah but darius will literally be shut down by any squishy with a mobility skill, while renek can still get on top of them

Tychusfindlay919Oct 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

yeah but darius will literally be shut down by any squishy with a mobility skill, while renek can still get on top of them

Not true, renekton needs to hit something with slice to unlock dice. If there are no minions nearby, he won't be able to gap close squishies all that well.

Typical base ranges for many ranged opponents is between 500-600

Slice range is 450

Darius's apprehend range is 550

Contrary to what you stated, Renekton is actually more reliant on special circumstances to get on top of the backline than darius is. Slice NEVER has a chance to get to the average ranged opponent whereas apprehend does have a chance for catching out many ranged champions.

RequiemsfireOct 18, 20161 votes

Well renekton is more mobile and doesn't require 5 stacks to become functional. Thus as renekton its easier to capitalise on enemies mistakes and snowball than it is darius especially when dealing with cautious enemies.