@Xypherous, some feedback on your direction with caster AP support items.

Mârty·4/8/2016, 5:58:16 PM·4 votes·819 views

Hey!

I'd like to first build some credibility with my feedback. I have been building caster supports/"enchanters" (nami, janna, soraka, sona etc.) with near full-ap builds since they all received AP scaling utility back in season 4. Over the seasons I've had to sort of min/max the very few AP support items in the game with the standard caster AP items available, and have modified my builds every single season to optimize my scaled utility.

I have successfully hit the highest points of the ladder with my builds over the season, and continue to see major success with this extremely fun playstyle of scaling my kit's utility as opposed to stacking utility items (mikaels, locket). While I don't think my build is completely superior to the utility item path, I do think scaling my champion's kit to have more impactful heals, buffs, debuffs, and even damage is just more fun than slamming the numbers 1-6 to activate every item active I have.

Here's an example of my standard build path for Janna, Soraka, and Nami.

I'm specifically interested in the most recent set of item changes because you have taken the time to actually offer players who build like me more than just an ardent censer. I'd like to give you my initial feedback on your new items and proposed changes that affect my builds and ap caster support/enchanters.

From here on out when I say "enchanters" I refer to champions with significant utility AP scaling (sona, janna, nami, soraka, lulu)

item 3070

Tear got a simple change, instead of offering mana regen it refunds a portion of mana costs. This is actually a really great change! Tear is a great item on Nami and Sona specifically - champions who have spammable but expensive spells that can be used to roam the map. Nami specifically can constantly buff herself to roam faster, and sona really wants to keep her aura buffs up as often as possible. This change is great for these champions (especially nami's W who has a cost of 130 at max rank!), so definitely looking forward to continuing to build tear on them.

TL;DR - Love the change and the logic behind it.

item 3028

I'm glad that mana regen is no longer scaled by your maximum mana, the relation seemed weird. The proposed sustain offered by the chalice is interesting, it definitely makes the item more attractive, however, with respect to enchanters this item has actually not been favourable since its powerful mana regen was removed a few seasons ago.

I still think, even with this change, chalice will still feel bad to buy early. It offers no AP or CDR, just an okay amount of mana regen. However, if I'm desperate for mana/mana regen, I'll buy a tear not a chalice. I don't know what situation I would think "yes I need a chalice for this early game", and because of that I can't ever justify buying it. It just doesn't have a case where I would find it a valuable use of 1000g.

On top of that, its upgrade path (I won't talk about mikaels because I don't ever build that item - it has no AP) of athenes was never that attractive (talking about the current live athenes here), as it was expensive and offered low ap for its cost. While the infinite mana was wonderful, it took too long to actually benefit from it and was never justified.

I also never cared for the MR on the item. It really just seems like a stat thrown on there for no particular reason. It's like throwing a null magic mantle onto any random item and then giving its final component +25 MR. If that MR was removed in favour of more relevant stats (COOLDOWN REDUCTION RIOT PLS) it might be more interesting.

TL;DR - Chalice was always meh and it doesn't really have a specific use case that I would consider valuable to enchanters, before and after this change. Please consider removing the MR and/or giving it some CDR (RIOT GODS PLEASE MAKE IT BUILD OUT OF FORBIDDEN IDOL!!!!!!!!!!!).

item 1052 item 1027 Lost Chapter

A decent component item, but it lacks something that morello's old component had which was valuable - CDR. Because it lacks CDR it'll probably be the last thing I build if I opt for morello's still in the future. This item's existence seems kind of bland at the moment though, it only really serves to build into morello's. The mana on level up is nice but that mechanic is better suited for a "sit in this lane and farm every single wave that comes to you" style of play, which you see in mid/top.

TL;DR - I wouldn't put much value on this item for enchanters. It's better suited for champions who farm and level up a lot.

item 3165

Over the seasons, this item has always been an absolute core in my enchanter builds. The CDR component rush is absolutely wonderful for enchanters. Because they have generally high cooldowns, and don't hit level 11 as fast as everybody else in the game, having high CDR allows their ultimates and standard spell rotation to keep up with the pace of the rest of the game. On top of offering an amazing build path of 20% CDR for 1350G, the mana sustain (be it mana, or mana regen, the difference has never truly impacted me to decide which is better suited for my build - both let me cast more spells), and a high amount of AP all for a good cost, this really was a great item for enchanters.

Unfortunately, with the introduction of the lost chapter as a component replacing forbidden idol, this item will likely fall out of my build. I can't really ask for any changes to it because the introduction of lost chapter has replaced forbidden idol.

TL;DR - While this change is nice for mid laners, it's actually a nerf to enchanters :(

item 3174

This item is an attempt at giving enchanters something to play with. While I appreciate the idea, I think the item could use a bit of modifications.

The component includes a chalice, which sucks to buy for reasons explained above. If that item had some CDR on it (especially considering both builds paths are now support items, it would really make sense to throw some CDR on it) I would be a lot more comfortable building it, but alone that change wouldn't be enough.

The item itself has the same problem as censer - not enough AP. These items already have restrictions that make it ridiculously unattractive for non-enchanters to pick up the item, give them some more AP!

The mana regen on the item is nice, which should be sitting around 175% with the mana font passive.

The MR is whatever as I talked about before, I would be unbelievably satisfied as an enchanter player if this item built out of a chalice that had a forbidden idol as a component.

New heal passive is... okay I guess. I think it would be a lot more satisfying if the amount healed scaled off AP as well, or at the very minimum make it scale off the level of your target not the user. In any case, the item having low AP makes it not as attractive (I'd rather just stack more AP and get bigger shields anyways).

I do however really appreciate the significantly reduced cost. Because it has a passive only really relevant to enchanters, it can give us a bit of breathing room where as normally we might be afraid of mid laners finding it too attractive (FQC).

TL;DR - Give chalice a CDR component, get rid of the MR it's random, the mana regen is nice, the AP is too low, cost of the item is nice, passive should scale off target's level and/or give it some AP scaling.

item 3145 item 3146

With respect to the discussion of enchanters, I don't think any of the new hextech items are relevant - and that's fine. They seem like tools designed for mid lane mages, regardless they are exciting and I look forward to their impact on mid lane.

item 3157

Thank you.

The significantly reduced cost (plus CDR) actually makes it an interesting buy for a champion like Soraka or Nami. The item was already an attractive buy for Soraka, but it was damn expensive.

At least Support Morgana will be happy - overall a welcomed change.

item 3001

I've actually found Abyssal to be a great situational buy. I've picked it up on almost every enchanter, as its aura is in line with what enchanters do - boost the powers of their allies. However, it is a good bit more expensive.

I will likely still pick this item up as a 2nd or 3rd completed item in some games. It's a good option to have, I have no problems with this change.

item 3504

I'd like to talk about this item a bit, even though changes have not been announced. Ardent censer was the first attempt at really giving enchanters an item to play with. It has gone from completely useless, to situational, to a core component in my builds, but has since fallen back to "extremely situational/almost never".

I think the item and its identity are fine, but it has room to be more interesting.

First, please give it MORE AP. 40 is just too low. It should have at LEAST 60 AP.

Next, I think this item could benefit from an active relevant to warding/vision. Something I'd be interested in seeing is:

Unique Active: Instantly destroys visible targeted ward (X Second Cooldown, maybe ~150 range?)

Numbers aside, I think giving this item a tool to help enchanters keep up with the vision game would be a great way to boost its attractiveness as a buy. Enchanters have had a history of being almost a detriment to the vision game when playing against champions like thresh/leona/braum/morgana etc. Having to stand there and auto attack a 3/5 HP ward for so long puts janna/sona/nami/soraka so much more at risk than tanky/pick supports. A tool that would allow them to somewhat keep up with the vision game (while not completely overshadowing/eliminating the strengths offered by tank supports) might be interesting.

Thematically, it emits smoke that kills wards??? Idk. I'm sure we can make it work.

TL;DR - MORE AP and an active that helps enchanters with the vision game some how, my suggestion is an instant ward kill on a cooldown.

item 3050

Zeke's was, when introduced, a super exciting item for players who built like me! It not only gave our carries/team mates a significant boost in DPS, it also boosted our own ability to support our team with the AP buff.

However, recently I haven't found it very attractive to build, mostly because crit is no longer as necessary, and the % ap on the item doesn't have as much impact as it used to.

Please significantly boost the %AP the item provides. 20% just isn't enough, especially because it does not stack at all with deathcap's passive AP. Compared to last season, where we were getting a ton of AP from masteries and cheaper AP items, Zeke's just does not have the same AP impact it used to. Bumping up the AP to 30% would be really nice.

Additionally, over-statting crit feels so bad. If my ADC has 60-70% crit, I just feel crappy buying Zeke's. It would be nice if Zeke's converted the extra crit over 100% into a different stat at a similar gold rate, maybe something like x% bonus attack speed per x% crit chance above 100%.

The build path is okay, although the CDR component is a bit pricey, it's not too bad. I don't care much for the armour, and if the glacial shroud was replaced with an idol to reduce the cost of the item (or to give it more AP), that might be nice.

TL;DR - Give it MORE AP, More %AP, if it pushes someone over 100% crit convert that extra crit to another stat (likely AS), and consider swapping the glacial shroud for a forbidden idol.

That's basically all my feedback on these changes. I look forward to what you have in store for enchanters in the future!

8 Comments

Trashkuun4/8/2016, 6:00:31 PM1 votes

He stated he is ONLY responding to people in the PBE forums. I would love to get his opinion on my post as well, but we are probably going to get lost in the forums.

Link to my post.

ChaddyFantome4/8/2016, 6:03:19 PM1 votes

Unique Active: Instantly destroys visible targeted ward (30 second cooldown)

I love Ardent and love Support but this is just broken. Especially on top of Ardent's already powerful passive. xD

Fashion Mage4/9/2016, 3:40:24 PM1 votes

I agree for the most part, especially to giving more AP to stuff like Ardent Censer. I hope they continue supporting the AP caster support play style.