Boards›Gameplay

That is not how you nerf Janna.

Mârty·10/27/2014, 6:55:39 PM·31 votes·8,596 views

Janna

-Zephyr (W) cooldown increased to 12 at all ranks from 12/11/10/9/8

This is on the PBE currently. I'm really confused about this nerf. What are the goals of removing the cooldown scaling with levels? The only thing I can think of is that riot feels that the value for putting a point into her W is high, or maybe to increase the window of opportunity where she doesn't have her passive W benefit?

This doesn't hit Janna at all though, all you're doing is shifting her mid-game gameplay patterns to her Q. If this change goes through, you're just telling me to max Q second, and let my W scale with AP.

She needs a new passive, as well as change to her free movement speed on W. Giving her entire team 5% movement speed to get to a fight, or just late game in general, is kind of insane. Especially the horrible buff to her passive aura range (why did you listen to reddit lol), that was totally unnecessary power given to her.

This is what I'd like to see done to Janna:

Janna

**Tailwind - Changed **

-When Janna casts a spell, the residual winds create an aura (800 or less range) for 3 seconds that grants herself and nearby allies 4%+(0.0075xAP) bonus movement speed.

Howling Gale

-Mana Cost Reduced to 90/95/100/105/110 -Fixed a bug where Janna couldn't instantly release her howling gale if she ran out of mana casting the spell.

Zephyr

-Passive movement speed buff reduced to 4/5/6/7/8% + (.015xAP) from 4/6/8/10/12 + (.02xAP)

OR

Cooldown increased to 12 Seconds at all ranks from 12/11/10/9/8

Changed my mind, I don't want to see the cooldown per level reduced. It'll make Q far too attractive to max second.

Monsoon - New Effect

-While channeling her healing winds, tailwind's movement speed bonus is doubled.

This actually hits Janna where she needs to be hit. On top of this, we've added a passive with a little bit of gameplay, as well as some kit synergy with her ultimate. A good Janna player will now have to consider her movement speed bonus when channeling her ultimate. Does she channel to help her team get away, or does she disengage and hope she provided her team with enough tools to escape?

On top of this, the ridiculous mana cost on her Q makes it impossible for players to consider maxing it second, removing some of the choice of mid-game skill levelling. If riot is concerned about zero-interaction AP-mid Janna, her Q can deal reduced damage to minions. A mana gate like that is kind of silly when you can solve the problem with reduced minion damage.

I seriously hope Riot reconsiders their Janna changes. Target her passive, please.

50 Comments

P0IS0N IVY10/30/2014, 12:49:07 AM19 votes

2 months ago

GD: Janna is trash!

nothing changes except pros start playing her

GD: Nerf pls!

Hayaishi10/27/2014, 8:30:01 PM14 votes

Making her passive a better nami passive? No

Sightless6610/27/2014, 7:47:17 PM4 votes

Lower mana cost on Q, and more movement speed when I cast spells? Even more disengage powero n my ult? Yes please. Seriously, give me that. I'd love the Janna Freelo train all the way into the sky.

I cast spells when I'm protecting people or disengaging. That's when I need the movement speed most. I can also just keep casting spells late game when I have a ton of CDR, so any movement speed that isn't just completely worthless will have a large uptime anyway. It's just going to be stronger in fighting situations unless you keep the movement speed exactly what it is now. You seriously can't increase the movespeed at all or it will just be broken as hell.

I don't think the passive is the major problem. The current sustained fight power she brings, combined with her being an extremely hard counter to powerful champions, is a much larger factor in what is going on. Additionally, the aggressive AD carries who used to be able to just burst out her lane and punish her early are much weaker (only Lucian really remains on that front).

As for this change forcing people to max Q: That's still a downside. Having less effective movespeed and worse cc is a significant downside.

They're trying not to nerf her too much before the season 5 changes. If those shake up the jungler and top pool like they hope, then Janna will be less valuable. They're avoiding major nerfs to anyone for the moment. Be assured, this is not meant to be an immediate fix.

PokladnicaZla10/27/2014, 7:09:33 PM2 votes

Hhm.Your suggestion seems interesting,but i dont understand how her new passive works.Could you pls explain it to me?

Sailor Mint10/27/2014, 8:19:40 PM2 votes

TIL Janna's W Self Movement Speed buff has an AP ratio.

I think her mana situation needs to be looked at. She's not spammy but she has the 2nd largest base mana pool in the game (almost 300 mana above the average caster).

If she only spends mana on mostly her shield and Zephyr, she barely uses any mana. But as soon as she has a few points into her Q, it turns into a mana hog.

  • Normalize her mana pool by reducing it to 290 (+50) from 302 (+64).
  • Increase Zephyr's mana cost to 60/65/70/75/80.
  • Lower Howling Gale's mana cost down to 70~120 (or 90 at all ranks).

Her laning phase has traditionally been weaker than most supports, I'm not sure if it is the case at the moment. Nerfing her early game mana could give her an actual exploitable weakness. I think her "broken" passive is part of her core identity at the moment.

I'm not a Janna player (Lulu/Sona). I would play her more, but the Q bug completely makes her completely unplayable for me.

AnomalousChimera10/27/2014, 8:26:13 PM2 votes

She needs a new passive, as well as change to her free movement speed on W. Giving her entire team 5% movement speed in a fight, or just late game in general, is kind of insane. Especially the horrible buff to her passive aura range (why did you listen to reddit lol), that was totally unnecessary power given to her.

I think the 4.13 buff to Q (cooldown begins after cast instead of release) played more of a role in increasing her strength.

She needs a new passive, as well as change to her free movement speed on W. Giving her entire team 5% movement speed in a fight, or just late game in general, is kind of insane. Especially the horrible buff to her passive aura range (why did you listen to reddit lol), that was totally unnecessary power given to her.

This is what I'd like to see done to Janna:

Janna

**Tailwind - Changed **

When Janna casts a spell, the residual winds create an aura (800 or less range) for X seconds that grants herself and nearby allies X% bonus movement speed.

Monsoon - New Effect

While channeling her healing winds, tailwind's movement speed bonus is doubled.

This actually hits Janna where she needs to be hit. On top of this, we've added a passive with a little bit of gameplay, as well as some kit synergy with her ultimate. A good Janna player will now have to consider her movement speed bonus when channeling her ultimate. Does she channel to help her team get away, or does she disengage and hope she provided her team with enough tools to escape?

I don't know about how others feel about this, but to me, it seems that this synergy that your Monsoon would have with your Tailwind would be really, really powerful, requiring Tailwind to be nerfed hard to the point of near uselessness outside of said use.

On top of this, the ridiculous mana cost on her Q makes it impossible for players to consider maxing it second. If riot is concerned about zero-interaction AP-mid Janna, her Q can deal reduced damage to minions. A mana gate like that is kind of silly when you can solve the problem with reduced minion damage.It also removes choice when considering what skills to max on support Janna.

I wasn't around in the era when AP-mid Janna was viable, but I've read that her AP ratios were nerfed significantly, so I doubt that AP-mid Janna would resurface just because the mana cost of Q were to be reduced. Cooldowns and AP ratios alone are holding her back from going mid, and I don't think reducing the mana costs on her Q would do much.

StrangerL10/29/2014, 12:10:07 AM2 votes

10 sec at all ranks is more reasonable...

Darth Pixy Misa10/30/2014, 1:19:01 AM2 votes

This nerf to Janna is more proof that Riot panders to LCS types, and will nerf support the second they get out of line. If Janna had 500 ap and W at max rank it would do 530 damage, and a 70% slow at 600 range. That damage is a single AA from a 6 item ADC. This nerf just irritates people it does not really effect her. There is no need to nerf Janna. If you disagree try to solo a lane with her.

SoleAccord10/30/2014, 3:16:19 AM2 votes

Fixed a bug where Janna couldn't instantly release her howling gale if she ran out of mana casting the spell.

Oh my god you get this too? I thought it was just lag or something but sometimes it wouldn't work unless I mashed it, or it didn't come out at all X.X

Earl Eulrich10/27/2014, 10:45:45 PM1 votes

I´d argue you really have to hit her cd on q - having two hardcounters to hardengage is just ridiculous, especially if one has a cd so short that there´s basically no window of opportunity to ever engage (except some ults like malph and vi), as most engages have a longer cd.

u mid i feed10/30/2014, 1:02:34 AM1 votes

As a Janna player, no.

Junkο10/30/2014, 4:50:57 PM1 votes

Post of the day

No red response...

AvariceSyn10/30/2014, 1:39:02 AM1 votes

Because what are ganks when you're laning with Janna.

Dryad Soraka10/30/2014, 2:05:08 AM1 votes

new passive suggestion is horrible and useless and w ms nerf is way too massive

GoldenLeSpoink10/30/2014, 5:37:18 PM1 votes

This is so true with what everyone is saying, as soon as someone plays a champion that everyone considered trash on LCS; there is like a boom for everyone to play them. My first comes to mind is Rumble, when Dyrus played Rumble, everyone even in the Worlds started to use him. Listen, if Urgot starts to be used in LCS, everyone is going to use him.

chumbler10/30/2014, 5:01:56 AM1 votes

Riot's handling of Janna has always been stupid. Don't expect that to ever change.

Lover Lips10/28/2014, 7:52:31 PM1 votes

Why exactly are we nerfing Janna anyways? Because she has one reliable and sure-fire way to CC some one and she's only used for shields?

SnazzyTheMister10/30/2014, 5:05:43 AM1 votes

janna seems to be the only support who's protective spell isnt the highest mana cost in her kit. nami and sona as well as lulu and karma all have their shields/heals become the highest cost spells, it seems strange that janna doesn't fit this mold.

i think it wouldn't be a bad idea to set her more like nami in terms of costs and cooldowns. **q **being high cooldown with a flat mana cost e with a higher cost and **w ** being somewhere in between

that might not be the most balanced but i feel like that something closer to that would feel a little better (that and the mana pool being put in line) i think the idea of her q doing reduced damage to minions is interesting but personality i like when a champion has an off role tho i understand its rather disruptive (enters lulu)

i think the idea of an aura that actives on spell cast is cool and while i can see it stepping on the toes of nami and sona a little they all do different enough themes i think it wouldn't be to bad.

ILoveTiramisu10/29/2014, 11:37:42 PM1 votes

I think its better reduce W damage.