@RIOT: what made you decide to make changes to vision?

shyv·Mar 4, 2016·2 votes·475 views

just really curious. stealth wards have been in the game for as long as i can remember and i don't think any of us predicted them being completely removed.

as a support main, it's been a bit hard to adapt. had wards gone for several months, but with the sightstone nerfs, and everyone buying pinks, i find it's too easy to deny vision and the map is very dark now.

as much as i think trinkets are a cool idea, i don't think that alone is enough for proper vision control, especially when playing from behind.

but hey, maybe i'm just bad. that's a very real possibility.

can anyone from riot comment on why they decided to remove stealth wards and put more of the focus on trinkets?

7 Comments

AnratonMar 4, 20161 votes

I understand your point ... I think the main idea is, that Riot wanted to distribute the warding task to EVERY champion away from the support. How often did you end up with 5 wards, 1 pink and sightstone? How much gold did you dump into green wards to keep vision up? - And remember, supports normally have the smalles amount of gold to spend ..

I am not sure, if it was the right choice but riot is trying to fix the problem - if it was the right choice .. time will show.

"Ich weiß nicht, ob es gut wird, ich weiß nur, das es anders werden muss, wenn gut werden soll" "I don't know if it will be good, but I know, that it has to change, if it should become good"

TANKS for trying.

Valderis VandalaMar 4, 20161 votes

From what I've read the vision game was really oppressive against the losing team, the winning team had enough of a gold lead and map control to just light up the whole map with vision while the losing team can't do the same thing and can't counter the enemy vision well enough and not without great risk.

Limiting vision options to just Sightstone, Trinkets, and the Pink ward gives a more equal distribution of vision power no matter if you get ahead or behind.

It's a far better system now then what it was.

shyvMar 4, 20161 votes

"from what you've read"?

did you not play back then? i had no problems with the way vision was in season 5. even playing from behind it was fine.

now, the winning team is able to zone the losing team so much that they can't safely ward from behind, except for using blue trinket which is visible and easily taken out.

everyone buys pinks instead, red trinket is more common, raptor smite, all that shit together makes for some pretty tough vision control. if you're on the losing team you can't ward effectively which just makes you lose even more.

Valderis VandalaMar 4, 20161 votes

I did but I've had only minimal experience with it, which is why I have to go with word of mouth on it to form an opinion on it.

Can you explain why the winning team is able to zone the losing team these days as opposed to back then?

Seems to me they have fewer good tools for it now then they did back then with the loss of purchasable Stealth Wards. The only way to get a good amount of vision is with Pink Wards and Blue Trinket (since only the support buys Sightstone), both can be removed without the need for removal tools like Red Trinket so its harder to keep control of the enemy jungle. Raptor Smite is only temporary and something a jungler can easily deny the enemy if he knows what he's doing. If you want to keep the enemies Stealth Wards under control you have to get Red Trinket and sacrifice your own Stealth Wards for it, even then its only a chance to remove them and not a guarantee.

shyvMar 5, 20161 votes

ok think of it this way. the enemy jungler has ganked you twice in 5 minutes, and one of them got you killed.

you come back to lane and you know that you have to play safe & farm because you're behind but the enemy laner is freezing the lane and you won't be able to farm safely unless you wander into Potential Gank Zone.

you only have one trinket which can cover one possible entrance (assuming you're mid or top, side bushes for mid & river / tri for top) and you aren't able to ward defensively, because the enemy laner takes your pink out.

what do you do in that situation? do you risk dying to a gank, or put yourself even more behind by missing cs?

this used to be preventable, all you had to do was buy wards. now if you're at a disadvantage it only makes things worse.

Valderis VandalaMar 5, 20161 votes

I understand, that sucks.

I don't know ward timers and proper placement though so I don't know how preventable this stuff is and therefor don't have any good argument for ya here. In the end though this kinda just means that junglers have gotten better gank opportunities which work both ways (good for you and good for your enemy) and isn't the kind of thing that creates huge swings in power and keeps it that way because the system perpetuates itself.

The enemy team faces the same choice though, you also have a jungler on your team and he can do the same to the enemy on another lane or help you take back control of your lane and perhaps help you ward.

This still seems less terrible to me then what we had before with vision allowing for such a suffocating strategy late game. Which may not have been your experience but it has been for others.

ChickendoodlesMar 4, 20161 votes

I see what Riot was trying to do and the concept is fine, but early game warding is still a struggle. I main support and getting the adc to place even ONE ward is a miracle before 10 mins.