If you "forget" what item to buy..

rtbf76109271·Oct 20, 2016·2 votes·844 views

You dont know the champion well enough to have better build saved in the item sets than the recommended items.

40 Comments

Paladin 0f LifeOct 20, 20165 votes

It's not about that. It's about doing it quickly

rtbf76109271Oct 20, 20161 votes

you can search for an item (if it's not already on recommended, which it usually is) then click on it and have it up on the right side of the shop before your mana bar refills when you back..

Paladin 0f LifeOct 20, 20161 votes

but sometimes those few seconds spent typing and clicking... sometimes even misclicking wrong item cuz pros do it too and it can be a critical mistake. It is very minor but it can make a difference it can get you back to lane for lvl 6 before enemy leading to a snowball. that is important and i have noticed that exact thing happen because my item shortcuts are slightly faster so i dont waste ANY time. I know what items to get and i get it in two clicks not 4 clicks and typing

rtbf76109271Oct 21, 20161 votes

seldom are you actually backing without the need to sit there for 5 seconds to get your hp and mana back. This is ample time to search "mor" click morello for example and buy your stuff. This is in the case where you want something that isn't on the recommended which for the majority of champions everything they could ever want is there.

If this wasn't easy to do (which it is) then more people would actually use item sets. Riot stated that not enough people use them to justify the work to put them in. So logically if what you were saying is true, people would actually use them. Not just jump on this hype train because a feature they might use at some point but dont is being removed

plus at the start of the game you almost certainly know what your 1st item will be. So you can just open it on the right and keep it there to buy its components when you back. Also every death you have you can do the same

TequilaZombieOct 21, 20161 votes

That's more stuff to do. Right now we have two options:

An option that will always be either faster or as fast as doing it manually: the item sets.

An option that will be either slower or in the best case scenario as fast as the previous one, but will take more work.

I don't personally use it because I know almost exactly where the item I need is no matter the situation. But it can be tiring and time consuming to sit at base searching for items that could be easily put in the first page of the shop screen.

You gain nothing by removing it, but you gain something from preserving it.

WoonStruckOct 21, 20161 votes

They're removing the entire old client to make room for a new one.

Investing significant time in re-making an aspect of the old client that most people didn't use can't be considered a 'gain' without significant reason to offset the resources that would have to be put into it.

Also keep in mind that items sets are not being removed. The ability to change them in the client is. You can easily modify them in the game files to achieve the exact same effect.

TequilaZombieOct 21, 20161 votes

To modify game files is a punishable action. Most of the time Riot doesn't mind if it's not giving you something you shouldn't have (like jungle timers a while back). However, whenever you modify them, you're at the risk of being perma banned.

At least that was in the ToS the last time I read through it.

WoonStruckOct 21, 20161 votes

They'd be configuration files. You're allowed to change those. Riot has stated this.

They're kind of the exception to the rule. As long as you only modify things that you're allowed to, you're golden.

Things like Item Sets, key-binds, options, etc you can modify.

For now even champion skins, map skins, etc are all fair game as long as its only client-sided effects that give no in-game advantage.

TequilaZombieOct 21, 20161 votes

They also stated that using custom skins is all fine. But they also said that if the automatic system catches you, there will be nothing they can do about it.

The risk is low, but it's still there.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 20, 20162 votes

item search is way too slow. pathetically slow

You might be better off just getting a less efficient item and getting back in position faster, that's how big a deal those extra few seconds can be. Pro players actually practice getting their items faster so they don't end up like suckers who stop to search

WoonStruckOct 20, 20161 votes

Finding it in shop while you're channeling your back.

Finding it in shop while you're dead.

GG, argument invalidated. Shouldn't take more than 8 seconds to buy an item.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 20, 20163 votes

8 seconds is insane.

If you find it while youre channeling to go back you leave yourself open to attack. That's an amateurish thing to do. It also stops you from pinging I believe

No matter how fast you go you will be at a disadvantage against those with a better setup btw

rtbf76109271Oct 21, 20162 votes

no matter how fast I go...

except by the time I am full hp and mana I found what I needed to buy and dont waste a second. Never have I had an issue where I waste time looking stuff up

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 21, 20161 votes

And what about those of us who play with a strategy and don't want to wait around to get their ass beat before they finally go base. For example I like to play ahri and I'm probably not going to be missing much if any of my hp if I am laninga against annie.

I need to keep my window open incase she flashes on me and tries to blow me up with her jungler or something. I'm a mid laner, the enemy jungle is in every bush and there's 8 entrances to my lane. More depending on the ganker.

I'm not waiting till my hp goes down to go to base and I cant wait till she's shoved the minions under tower to get back fast

Every Fucking Second COUNTS

I can either stop to type and then click or I can go base, immediately click mid shop as my champion moves without changing my hand position so I can stay focused on the map and match.

I can either stop and type something out or I can left click the rylais at the top of my custom setup and then right click the rod its made of that I plan to build into ludens or maybe i'll get the hp and use the rest on MR + ap. In order to get all of this quickly I would instead click on item 3060 which I never build on ahri.. well not often.. and I would then just get the basic stuff I need in under 2 seconds. Or I can just do it the slow way and click item 3001 then item 3151 either way I'll be getting to lane much faster than someone who stops to type something and I'll actually be able to ping MIA faster

rtbf76109271Oct 21, 20163 votes

item 3116 item 3001 item 3151 item 3285 are all on the recommended for ahri so your special list and argument here is pretty invalid. You clearly do not NEED item sets to find them in the menu faster. They are right there in the recommended.

Not only that, no one in gold like us has the outcome of their games effected by 3 a seconds difference. Unles it affects you mentally so much that it tilts you somehow. We are not refined korean pros and our mistakes are going to vastly overshadow the effects of 3 seconds faster back to lane.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 21, 20161 votes

everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. I am a methodical chess player who has few but significant advantages in that I'm willing to min-max certain things. Its not a mental thing. Between the moment I appear in base and the moment my champion is done exiting the platform AFTER I'VE CLICKED I need to have my items ready and I cant do that with these items using the normal recommended slots since they aren't located at the top.

rtbf76109271Oct 21, 20162 votes

You are just looking for excuses not to use that items list. I play ahri plenty too. The defensive items item 3151 item 3001 item 3116 are not so low on the list that you even have to scroll down. They are visible at the bottom when viewing the top of the list.

If the best argument against removing these lists you have is that the items appear at the bottom of the list instead of the top, it is pretty clear riot can delete them without a second thought

Plus if you are clicking to leave spawn in the second you enter, you will not get full mana and hp back. It is rare to go back to base with 100% hp and mana and not need to sit there for 3 full seconds to get your mana back anyways.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 21, 20162 votes

that depends on your screen resolution

I'm not looking for excuses, there either is or isn't a more efficient way to get it done. End of story. I don't care what riot thinks. Riot has been wrong in many cases. Ahri is also just one example.

Additionally what am I supposed to do if I want to get item 1082 + item 3145 on my first trip back and have to get back fast.

that will take all day. 5 seconds at best, 5 seconds is shit timing and is how you end up a level behind an annoying burst champ.

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 21, 20161 votes

that depends on your screen resolution

Additionally what am I supposed to do if I want to get item 1082 + item 3145 on my first trip back and have to get back fast.

that will take all day. 5 seconds at best, 5 seconds is shit timing and is how you end up a level behind an annoying burst champ.

{quoted}

Plus if you are clicking to leave spawn in the second you enter, you will not get full mana and hp back. It is rare to go back to base with 100% hp and mana and not need to sit there for 3 full seconds to get your mana back anyways.

Only for people with no sense of strategy

rtbf76109271Oct 21, 20161 votes

well if you live in some dream world where you consistently back with full hp and mana I don't think you can be reasoned with

RogueWillOct 21, 20161 votes

I set them up before hand, leave the item I want to buy open, recall, buy it, give command to move out of base (towards wherever you are going) re open the shop and select what the net item is going to be..... Rarely I have enough gold to get more than a full item and a part anyway.

Critmaster GarenOct 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you can search for an item (if it's not already on recommended, which it usually is) then click on it and have it up on the right side of the shop before your mana bar refills when you back..

yes, you cna search for it.

or you can prepare item sets and do it without having to use the search bar every time. its a uality of life feature that saves valuable seconds in game time.

WoonStruckOct 20, 20161 votes

You're either dead or backing.

You have 8 seconds at a minimum. That's way more than enough time.

rtbf76109271Oct 21, 20161 votes

even if you dont want to open shop while you back, which is probably a good habit, you need to sit there for hp and mana anyways

WoonStruckOct 21, 20161 votes

People say "You're vulnerable then!!"

...There's a mini-map for a reason.

But yeah, considering regen, you have even longer than 8 seconds.

If you don't have the mechanical dexterity to navigate to the item you need quickly enough, you probably aren't at the MMR where getting back a second or two later would make a difference more than 1 in 500 games.

You should be thinking about which item you'll buy next BEFORE you even back to buy something.

TequilaZombieOct 21, 20161 votes

Opening shop tab while backing isn't dangerous? Watching the mini map?

Go ahead and make my day Evelynn Shaco Rengar

WoonStruckOct 21, 20161 votes

If you're scared of them, you shouldn't be backing where you currently are anyway.

PrimaquariusOct 20, 20161 votes

But what if you play Ezreal

AcidTheWarlockOct 20, 20161 votes

Then you just smash your face into the keyboard and win cuz Ezreal breaks everything.

GwellaouenOct 20, 20161 votes

Of course. It's logic. I forgot what to buy with champions who are not my mains but I have items sets for my best champions. ^^

CerealBoxOfDoomOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You dont know the champion well enough to have better build saved in the item sets than the recommended items.

what if your forgetting is based off math?

think fast

If the opponent has 120 armor which penetraton item gives you the best damage and why might second best be better? Assume your champ scales with AD

Urf Mode Is LifeOct 20, 20161 votes

if you need to save item sets, you probably dont know the champion and are a bronze piece of shit who builds the same thing in the same order every single game because why buy things like HP when youre 0-10 right?

keep stackin that damage bruhhhhhhh

NoobLearninGameOct 21, 20161 votes

I'd like to start by saying I've read everyone's arguments up to this point.

I love my item sets, especially the ones with items that aren't on the recommended list, more unusual but (I find) effective builds. It's nice having everything neatly gathered into a list I designed and understand. I can have everything (including the various wards, potions, other utility gear) in the order I'd normally get it without having to trust another person's opinions, also I enjoy my own aesthetic setup. Sometimes I can't remember in the midst of a game exactly what item would be the best choice, but having spent extra time out of game thinking it through, I can create a list that reflects my conclusions. Sometimes saving every last second does make a difference, it won't all the time but it happens and with fair frequency, enough to matter to me and change the outcome of games. I think people overplay the "you're not diamond so it doesn't affect you" argument for a lot of things, like Dynamic Queue, and look where we are today with that.

There's probably been several hundred if not 1000+ occasions where stopping longer to shop and think about what I needed would have resulted in unfortunate circumstances for my team, in games where we otherwise won due to my efficiency with purchases, made possible by my custom lists.

Every champion that I give a shot I've made one or more custom item lists for, I personally find it indispensable and have used them since I started playing basically (it was a pain the one time they got deleted and I'd to remake them, and didn't have a backup, back before they were saved server-side). If I'm forced to use whatever that recommended 3rd party app is, I hope it at least has utility for creating custom sets that's as good as what we currently have built into the client.

For the sake of those running potato computers (but they still manage to play Ranked and find success), I hope that 3rd party app won't cause any issues if they decide to try it out of necessity (assuming they relied on and enjoyed the in-client custom sets like I do). I realize in time I'm sure I could get used to not using them, but I find it exceedingly unnecessary, absolutely pointless. If one day I decided to go pro or something, then I would be playing a ton more and would learn to shop like I see players do on their Twitch . tv streams, I'm sure, but I don't dedicate nearly as much time as a lot of the youngsters with dreams of maybe going pro one day do. I'd rather not have to be forced to learn the shop as if this game were an academic pursuit, in terms of knowing exactly what item would be the best and most efficient piece to buy (and knowing where exactly that item is on the list without slowing down my purchases by having to type to search), leading towards a more complete item, including items I'd only rarely buy in specific situations (which I'd put on my custom lists as alternative options, lower down, just in case I ever do run into that rare situation).

It's also nice having a place to create crazy off-meta builds that just might work (or at least are fun to try), that you want to try in Normals or something, without wasting time memorizing the build, and then looking for the items in the middle of a game.

And also, I mean, I've watched some of these guys playing on their Twitch streams, some of the more popular players, and I'm often surprised how SLOW they are to decide on what they need, then to find it, and buy it, and get out of the shop. It happens a lot, and it's a little concerning to me considering how often even a few seconds makes a difference, from what I've seen.

rtbf76109271Oct 21, 20161 votes

{quoted} I mean, I've watched some of these guys playing on their streams, some of the more popular players, and I'm often surprised how SLOW they are to decide on what they need, then to find it, and buy it, and get out of the shop. It happens a lot, and it's a little concerning to me considering how often even a few seconds makes a difference, from what I've seen.

This is because your performance in the actual game is what matters and why they are high level. Not performance in the shop lol

You say how it makes a big difference 1000x to you to get to lane faster yet these guys just shop without the list and are challenger. While you get to lane 3 seconds faster (maybe, sometimes) and are gold like me and the other people here saying the 3 seconds matters

Really people are accidentally proving that these lists can be deleted without any repercussion

First guy says he needs the item list to buy items asap to get to lane faster, yet he doesnt build a single item in his example that isn't on the recommended item list

You say that you need to be in lane 3 seconds faster because it matters, 1000x times over, but plenty of high level players just shop without lists and are even slower than they could be while doing it

RogueWillOct 21, 20161 votes

item 1409 item 3083 item 3742 item 3143 item 3110 item 3111 item 3117 item 3030 item 3065 item 3512 item 3151 item 3025 item 3116 item 2031 item 2043 That is all I need... Can you guess the champion?

TequilaZombieOct 21, 20161 votes

Nunu? Maybe Sej? Tank AP Rengar for the lolz?

RogueWillOct 21, 20161 votes

You are right, is Sejuani

NoobLearninGameOct 21, 20161 votes

I disagree on basically all counts, for reasons that seem like I may as well not bring up since you seem to have already made up your mind when you started this topic, regardless of whatever others might say. Not that your opinion is likely to matter more than anyone else's, in terms of changing the course of the updates.

Personally I was planning to try to get up to Plat this last season (having steadily gone up from Silver the first season I played Ranked, Gold the second, and probably Plat 3rd season if I continued to play), but I didn't play much this season because I loathed Dynamic Queue, it wasn't fun to play anymore, but next season I might give it a go. What little time I did spend playing Ranked this season was more experimental, trying things out that I wouldn't before in Ranked.

If I make it to Diamond in a couple seasons (assuming my life doesn't get very busy soon considering I might be taking care of another person who's struggling to survive day-to-day not long from now), maybe I can come back and let you know I still care about the custom lists and think they are a superior option? Or will you only care if I'm Challenger/Professional level? I'm guessing you'd never care regardless of if I were Faker or someone like that, and just so happened to like the custom lists.

I feel that considering how little I've played of Ranked overall, I've done pretty well, from what I've seen a lot of players play many times more games in total and still remain in Silver, or barely attain Gold (I also play many other games of various types, I'm a rather old gamer, grew up on NES & above generations, and have played many different consoles). I also don't tend to play the most OP champs, but play champs that are often considered weak, and even complained about at times by teammates, asking if I could play another champ.

Some of them have been buffed in more recent times, but oddly enough I'd avoid playing most of them during periods where they were considered OP. Something about playing champs when they're really strong is a turnoff to me, seemingly, like when Garen was OP for a while after the Juggernaut update, I stopped playing him a short time before that; I might start playing the more OP champs though next season, just to see what it's like not to be playing what are generally considered lower-tier champs.

Yes very often the higher level players that I've seen streaming are much slower than they could be when shopping. Sometimes they'll take a good 10+ (sometimes 20 or more) seconds to buy while they're thinking, second-guessing themselves, and finally moving out. Many of the situations that go badly for them could likely be improved/won had they been able to buy more efficiently, even if it's only a few seconds.

Every little bit often counts, saying that their mechanics make up for their shopping inefficiency is a non-point, they could still improve their time management, and that would improve their chances of winning more games, and could reduce the struggle towards victory throughout individual games substantially enough to be important to the outcome (winning or losing).

In the end I don't really care if you agree since there's plenty of examples in my life where people are convinced about something they're wrong about. When people do that my hope is the only person it impacts is them, so the only person they're depriving is themselves.

Anyway, if this change goes through I hope that 3rd party app is good, we shall see.

NoobLearninGameOct 28, 20161 votes

"The quick update on this is that while it's definitely still not a top priority, we've heard player outcry about the item set creator feature and we're having serious conversations internally about how to proceed. I'll keep y'all updated as these conversations continue. Hang tight!"

Cactopus

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/community/q/ask-riot-league-client-update-and-death-recaps