"the community is feeling that twitch is weak early game"

KONO RUBICK DA·Aug 7, 2015·39 votes·3,375 views

"so we reduced his Q mana cost by 20 even if he never had mana problem"

(and increasing his ulti AD by 4)

47 Comments

MohawkBirdAug 7, 201511 votes

[deleted]

AnidanAug 7, 20152 votes

That's because many people hate the very existence of lane bullies, and so when the lane bullies are nerfed, the people who scale the best will now shine because they can't be kept down.

RefdowAug 7, 20157 votes

" and we buffed his ultimate even though it wasn't particularly weak"

CreationFlawAug 7, 201517 votes

{quoted}

" and we buffed his ultimate even though it wasn't particularly weak"

muh single digit damage buff

La9waAug 7, 20152 votes

You don't catch the irony, do you?

ElJanitorFrankAug 7, 20151 votes

Keygasm

junglerboy16Aug 8, 20151 votes

"Well if you factor in that he is attacking repeatedly during the duration of his ultimate, and a good twitch is hitting all 5 at once, then he can easily get about 2000-4000 extra damage per cast. The fact that this is only noticeable when hitting every single champion and getting autos off throughout the duration will separate the good Twitches from the great Twitches."—Rito Logics

atomicwitAug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

" and we buffed his ultimate even though it wasn't particularly weak"

Actually, it is pretty weak for laning. If you ult. in a minion wave, the damage is reduced a lot. I don't think these Twitch buffs do much of anything. His passive at least early is negated by popping an HP pot.

I don't even think his late game is that good except in the sense that you can get picks a bit easier. A Jinx provides so much more utility from a safer range (she isn't limited to Twitch's ult. time for that), has an AoE execute and AoE crits with 10% more AD vs clumped targets (again without the need to ult. in order to do it). He's better than average late game but not stronger than Jinx or Vayne. He's probably just a bit better than Tristana but that's not saying much considering her late game winrate is actually pretty abysmal following the rework.

TraakSCAug 7, 20155 votes

Twitch is so freakin strong I've seen him once in 3 weeks. Powerful.

FadedpfAug 7, 20155 votes

Just like. "community hates kalistas mobility (her passive), touch everything besides that." And even when they did do some stuff to her passive it is still the same.

Meep ManAug 7, 20155 votes

Orianna had a bigger base AD buff than Twitch is getting with this buff. Remember the 6 damage increase of patch 4.14? Yeah. They need to do more with this Twitch buff since it hardly even buffs him at all.

Cloud PotatoAug 7, 20153 votes

The R damage bonus wasn't neat and it drove me crazy. Massive QoL buff for me.

But really, if they want to buff Twitch, lowering R's cooldown would be the best way to go.

NERDSMASHER5001Aug 7, 20152 votes

"the community is feeling that twitch is weak early game

which is fine because his late game is ridiculous"

that's why

KONO RUBICK DAAug 7, 20156 votes

{quoted}

"the community is feeling that twitch is weak early game

which is fine because his late game is ridiculous"

that's why

Jinx Vayne Caitlyn Sivir weak early game where?

either you nerf those champion's early game or buff twitch early game

{quoted}

" and we buffed his ultimate even though it wasn't particularly weak"

by 4 AD

aaronautumnAug 7, 20155 votes

isn't cait supposed to be strong early, weak late?

ChaosThiefAug 7, 20152 votes

Cait scales well enough into late game that I would put her in that category. She's mostly gated by mana.

A Miss FortuneAug 7, 20153 votes

Caitlyn does really well early game but her kit doesn't really fit well into mid game's teamfighting scene. She does really well late game because of how well her sieging abilities are and not to mention her ult chunks you for most your health if she hasn't already killed you with it.

ChaoticPineconeAug 7, 20156 votes

Cait goes from strong early, weak mid (due to her 2 AD scaling abilities, one which requires a channel + no steriods) to decently strong late from the range. Not strongest, but strong.

Pre-rework tristana (when she had magic damage burst) was the same way, with a slightly worse mid game but better late.

Earl EulrichAug 7, 20151 votes

she´s weak midgame, her lategame is really potent.

NERDSMASHER5001Aug 7, 20154 votes

{quoted}

weak early game where?

either you nerf those champion's early game or buff twitch early game

by 4 AD

pre-nerf twitch was more obnoxious than all of those champions currently

hell, fed current twitch is still more obnoxious than all of those champions

Dextix LTAug 7, 20151 votes

Yea, every fed champ is obnoxius. But all of the other champs have better and safer tools to get fed than him.

Captain AishiAug 7, 20151 votes

twitch with his 60 second long stealth wasn't as obnoxious as vayne has always been, but that's just my opinion too

KONO RUBICK DAAug 7, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Aishi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dcNEk7es,comment-id=0002000000010001,timestamp=2015-08-07T06:56:37.591+0000)

twitch with his 60 second long stealth wasn't as obnoxious as vayne has always been, but that's just my opinion too

it forces players to play with a different playstyle (buying pinks) which riot hated, by the way now pinks can be destroyed you can't counter 60 second stealth any more

KONO RUBICK DAAug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it forces players to play with a different playstyle (buying pinks) which riot hated, by the way now pinks can be destroyed you can't counter 60 second stealth any more

{quoted}

isn't cait supposed to be strong early, weak late?

she is actually good late game, and can be considered as a hyper carry since she has her headshot ignoring 50% of armor increasing damage by 100%, her abilities are physical and she has a high range

VDc0zCqe0wAug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

weak early game where?

Sivir is just bad early game

most of the time the only way you can survive laning is by hard pushing with Q+W to avoid any kind of trade with the opposing AD, but in a straight 2vs2 early game she's just bad since most of her kit is AOE and having 500 range really doesn't help

chipndip1Aug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

weak early game where?

either you nerf those champion's early game or buff twitch early game

by 4 AD

Cait isn't that strong late game unless she stomps early. Jinx and Vayne aren't strong early either anyway. Sivir...eh...I don't even know what she is.

KONO RUBICK DAAug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Cait isn't that strong late game unless she stomps early. Jinx and Vayne aren't strong early either anyway. Sivir...eh...I don't even know what she is.

less strong than jinx/vayne but with her passive (50% armor ignore +100% bonus damage) and her physical damage with high range as well as being safe make her a stronger than average carry late game)

chipndip1Aug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

less strong than jinx/vayne but with her passive (50% armor ignore +100% bonus damage) and her physical damage with high range as well as being safe make her a stronger than average carry late game)

If I had to pick a late game hyper-carry adc, it'd be Vayne Tristana Jinx . Cait is a lane bully. If she doesn't get a strong lead early on, it's unlikely she's gonna get it later.

Not saying she's bad later, but her kit's not too hot for team fighting, sieging, and all that later game jazz. It's better for the laning phase than other champs.

A Miss FortuneAug 7, 20151 votes

The thing is that Twitch's early game is so bad that if he falls behind by a death or two, he's totally useless until late game. Even then, he's only POTENTIALLY better than Jinx, Vayne, Tristana, or Kog'Maw. Setting up his ambushes and ultimate isn't that easy, and usually if you fail an ambush you die immediately and setting up his ultimate is extremeeeeely difficult.

One thing is that if Twitch is behind, he's going to stay like that for pretty much the rest of the game until full build. If Twitch is ahead, his true damage and ult is overbearing and It's difficult to ever fight against him. He's a feast or famine sort of, but he rarely gets the feast part and there's so much that could just go wrong, there's almost no reason to pick Vayne over him since Vayne does everything he does but better aside from teamfighting.

ElJanitorFrankAug 7, 20151 votes

Sure, that makes sense.

Except Twitch is the only ADC I can think of who has a piss poor early game, and a hyper carry late game.

Meanwhile, Vayne, Jinx, Sivir, etc. have perfectly fine early games, and usually carry much, much harder in the late game.

Shroom JunkieAug 7, 20152 votes

Twitch is fine. He has a bit of a crappy early game, but his late game is great. As a dueler, maybe not so much, but as a teamfighter he's one of the best ADC's in the game, literally able to hit everyone with his ult, plus he has his bomb, and can proc his poison on all of them doing crazy damage.

UndefeatedAug 7, 20152 votes

I personally think that this buff will deffinetely increase Twitch's power, and we'll see him in competitive play. I mean, this buff is insane, might as well make his q manaless, amirite.

Abstergo A27Aug 7, 20151 votes

I think they should just revert the Q nerf, and he'll be in okay shape. I think he's the only Assassin ADC in game? And that identity is somewhat lost after the Q nerf. He's super niche in the sense that yes hes late game adc, but he's also really good as an assassin/duelist in midgame. And people don't play him like that anymore after the Q nerf.

ChaoticPineconeAug 7, 20152 votes

Vayne

Silents429Aug 7, 20151 votes

I rather they didn't buff a True damage Dot honestly.

But on all those twitch posts people complained about his mana costs when I tried explaining his early damage, so this appealed to some people.

I guess in reality it's a fault in every ones posts, you can only ask for so much when you don't provide any meaningful ideas on how to buff him.

KONO RUBICK DAAug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I rather they didn't buff a True damage Dot honestly.

But on all those twitch posts people complained about his mana costs when I tried explaining his early damage, so this appealed to some people.

I guess in reality it's a fault in every ones posts, you can only ask for so much when you don't provide any meaningful ideas on how to buff him.

his base AD is shit, look at vayne base AD his stealth take 6 seconds to be activated, 3 seconds were already enough to kill him and this champion has no escape. his slow is bad, and need an utility buff his E is basically a less powerfull kalista rend

Silents429Aug 8, 20152 votes

And neither Kalista or Vayne have an ult that allows them to hit the entire enemy team with his auto attacks.

I think his base AD could use a lift, but overall Twitch is fine.

Earl EulrichAug 7, 20151 votes

he´s not even really weak, and once he hits 6 he gets an incredible spike for free. It´s like people claiming Vayne has a weak early game...

JariAug 7, 20152 votes

I'll put it simply.

Why play Twitch , when you can play Kalista who can do everything Twitch can, better, minus stealth.

Earl EulrichAug 7, 20152 votes

she´can´t do anything that twitch does? he excels at roaming and flanking, kiting is his one very weakness. Just don´t compare those two.

Axis the DragonAug 7, 20155 votes

While their intended role are pretty different (Twitch is an immobile team shredder, and Kalista is a frontline kiter - though she can be a team shredder too, given she's fed enough, but that's the same for nearly every carry Champion), I think he was referring to the fact that Rend >>>>>>>> Expunge

Which, in a vacuum, is true, you have to admit

JariAug 7, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Axis the Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dcNEk7es,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-07T16:32:38.687+0000)

While their intended role are pretty different (Twitch is an immobile team shredder, and Kalista is a frontline kiter - though she can be a team shredder too, given she's fed enough, but that's the same for nearly every carry Champion), I think he was referring to the fact that Rend >>>>>>>> Expunge

Which, in a vacuum, is true, you have to admit

This. And I like my twitch.

Earl EulrichAug 7, 20151 votes

just that we´re not in a vacum and twitchs defining skills are his stealth and his ultimate, e is just a nice addition to his kit and nothing more. comparing champs by just one spell and not the whole kit is beyond stupid.

Axis the DragonAug 7, 20151 votes

I guess, but I'm not the one making the kit comparison, I'm just pointing it out. xD

JariAug 7, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dcNEk7es,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2015-08-07T16:24:23.810+0000)

she´can´t do anything that twitch does? he excels at roaming and flanking, kiting is his one very weakness. Just don´t compare those two.

Kalista has an infinite better E and won't need a stealth due to her amazing mobility. The things that Twitch has above her is surprise and range (just from ult.) And for spreading stacks, she has Runnans. She won't have a problem there.

Weasel KenseiAug 7, 20151 votes

One of the things Iv always hatted about playing Twitch is the animation time on his W. I feel like it takes too long for what you get out of it in a 1v1 trade, Its only good to initiate with from stealth. This means his only skill to fight 1v1 in a fight he didnt start from stealth is his E and R, and if theyre not running no point in R, E when the stacks are full. Go ahead and Q so if they run you can stealth sooner and chase... he is just too assassin and not enough AD carry.

One thing we have to be careful of with on Twitch though, is he can jungle a lot better than most marksman type carries and his ganks with his kit are very nasty.