@Riot Remove Modekaiser's Q bonus AD ratio

Matezoide·Feb 28, 2015·31 votes·1,699 views

Seriously. It had a place in his kit before, but theres no reason to kee it.

He doesnt get any AD from his ghost anymore.

The AD his ghost will receive is unrelated to what he builds.

The god damn patch notes say that "AD MORDEKAISER IS NOT A THING"

That bonus AD ratio only serves to make him build Gunblade over WotA a few times, and it is taking from his power budget, since he is not rewarded for building AD anymore.

There is no point in keeping that. Since you are obviously not going to revert this crap, at least get rid of the ratio you domt want him using and buff him elsewhere.

30 Comments

SEKAIFeb 28, 201518 votes

I can not see why he is now pigeonholed into an AP fighter with no cc, ok damage and have an unreliable mobility because that's *clearly *a fleshed out idea right?

He was meant to be mostly AP with sometimes hybrid, due to his immobility he is meant to be a powerhouse, utilising power he can get his hands on and pushing the lane while dueling anybody who is willing to go toe to toe against him, and most likely ended up as his slave afterwards. He is a ruthless king remember (his W change also makes 0 sense in the context of Morde)?

There I just defined his characteristics for you Riot, while your whole company/balance team can't.

Morde is a pusher who has his strength also as his fatal weakness, it's a splendid champion design.

But I guess Riot doesn't care about him. I really like this dude though, I will defend his right to exist everyday.

lojicianFeb 28, 20156 votes

They succeeded at making him a fighter according to their definitions. He's worthless garbage that can't do anything to anyone that knows how to kite or position because that's what riot's ideal fighter is.

TheRainInSpainMar 1, 20151 votes

How wasn't Mordekaiser a fighter? I mean, he's melee. That's the primary definition for Fighter. If you were melee and you didn't have some other major role (tank or support), you're called a Fighter. The other definition of "Fighter" is being close to the fight, assuming you were not melee.

If Braum wasn't classified as a Support, he'd be rated as Tank/Fighter. Morde, however, is not a true tank. So he's Fighter and Mage construct.

Robert SmithMar 1, 20151 votes

Think you're forgoting a Role. cough Mele Assassins cough

lojicianMar 1, 20151 votes

That's a pretty pointless definition. It says absolutely nothing about playstyle or gives any insight into the role of a champion. It's pointless to ever talk about "fighters" using your definition because the discussion apparently needs to generalize everything from galio to garen to morde to tryndamere. Champions that are nothing alike and which have no general pattern to talk about outside of what is already encapsulated by the word "melee".

You don't actually see "fighter" as clarifying role or characteristics more than the word "melee", you just see it as some catch all category that describes things that didn't fit anywhere else. So to you "we're making morde a fighter" just means "We're making morde a melee lacking cc to lock things down. What does he do exactly? I dunno, we're just telling you things he's not allowed to do."

TheRainInSpainMar 1, 20151 votes

Well, neither does "Mage". Plenty of champions are called "Mage". You've got Kennen, Varus, Amumu, Ahri, Cho'Gath, Sona, and Soraka. If you ask me, "Mage" means a champion that relies on spells to do damage, as there are a few AD "Mages" in that group.

"Support" champions are those that can lock down (Lux, Zyra) enemies, or bolster allies (Braum, Nunu).

"Tank" are ... should be very obvious.

"Marksman" are ranged auto attackers.

"Assassin" can either burst, stealth, or attack from out of nowhere (e.g. random Shroom or Xerath ult)

lojicianMar 1, 20151 votes

No one calls varus, sona, post rework soraka, or amumu "mages". People use the term to mean champions with high range ap abilities. The playstyle of champions people actually use the term "mage" for is much more similar than the playstyles of champions you classify as "fighters".

Also you might be literally the only person on this forum that would call xerath an assassin (riot's tags are ridiculous and completely at odds with what people actually use words to mean). I guess the problem is that you're actually listening to riot's tags.

TheRainInSpainMar 2, 20151 votes

I ask the questions "How" and "Why", and try to understand what happened. It makes for a better leader or corporate executive, and a reason why good executives who should be at that level are forever stuck at the manager level, asking the manager questions of "When" and "Where".

So I try to understand why Rito does things. I may not agree with their policies, but I want to know why they do it.

Kitten of EvilMar 1, 20151 votes

Right, Mage is a nebulous term that seems to cover "scales with AP" and "deals damage, likely AOE". The AD equivalent is an AD Caster (think Pantheon), but that's not a Riot-approved category.

The problem is, mages range from the barely AOE (Malzahar and Kass, both of whom technically have a bit but are really one-target killers) to all AOE (Vel'Koz).

TheRainInSpainMar 2, 20151 votes

And Yorick.

TTUPhoenixFeb 28, 20155 votes

Because you can build both Hextech Gunblade and Will of the Ancients? Seriously, try it with Spirit Visage. The Spell Vamp is unreal.

SirsirFeb 28, 20151 votes

The 20% spellvamp is unique

ForPortalFeb 28, 20156 votes

But it's not named. Unnamed uniques stack when they come from different items.

TTUPhoenixFeb 28, 20158 votes

That's strange, because I build both and I could've sworn they stack, for a 40% total. Maybe not, though. I'll have to check it out.

Edit: Just checked, and the unique +20% spell vamp on both isn't a named passive. I think that that means that they'll stack with each other, but not with themselves - so getting one of each should give you 40% spell vamp, but you'd only get 20% for getting two Hextech Gunblades.

SirsirFeb 28, 20155 votes

So it does, thats some MTG technicality...

1st HanarSpectreFeb 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The 20% spellvamp is unique

unique to itself. Hextech revolver stacks with Wota and Gunblade, but not with itself. same as two gunblade and Wota won't stack on top of each other.

MatezoideFeb 28, 20153 votes

It is strange. I have built them together, but during the actual gameplay, i didnt notice any difference, despite my stats saying it was 40%

Regardless, the bonus AD Ratio is just eating from his already small power budget. There is no reason to keep it anymore when the sole reward is ''Q hits a bit harder''.

Done25Feb 28, 20155 votes

{quoted}

It is strange. I have built them together, but during the actual gameplay, i didnt notice any difference, despite my stats saying it was 40%

Regardless, the bonus AD Ratio is just eating from his already small power budget. There is no reason to keep it anymore when the sole reward is ''Q hits a bit harder''.

Can you PROVE that Riot would buff him in exchange for removing the AD ratio? Because right now it lets him build Cutlass and have an easier early game because he can normally last hit rather than having to rely on his spells. If they just outright remove it and give him nothing in return then that's going to hurt his early game.

StephenizgodFeb 28, 20154 votes

Plus most time WotA is better because its cheaper, meaning you obtain it much faster, and the CDR is more useful then lifesteal. Personally i think they nerfed Morde because of the new AP item, i think they want to see how it interacts with his Q before deciding whether to buff him again.

deadlychuckFeb 28, 20151 votes

I disagree, i'd actually argue that they should add the bonus AD back to his ghost instead. I'd rather see alternative builds (be them weaker than the alternatives) exist. At least it offers up options and allows for natural change in the game to occur through items rather than just specific champion changes.

If morde doesn't scale with AD, then if in the future riot releases a new AD bruiser item or changes the itemization around, it's possible that an AD build might become the more powerful of the options or on par with the others. If you remove all AD scaling from him then it's impossible for that to happen.

Unless as it is now, AD is naturally so much stronger than AP, so AD builds still exist for him even though he doesn't scaling with AD at all, outside of his auto attacks.

MatezoideFeb 28, 20152 votes

AD Mordekaiser was a niche build that got killed by Riot with the ghost changes. Either they should revert this rework (Which they wont do) or get rid of the bonus AD ratio that he is never going to use outside of a single item that he might build. There is no reason to keep that AD Ratio atm just because Riot might release a new item. If they got rid of it, maybe he would be buffed elsewhere.

deadlychuckFeb 28, 20153 votes

There would be no reason for them to buff him elsewhere, because as you said it doesn't affect him gameplay in a significant manner. If they removed it, then you wouldn't see any compensation.

Again though, removing the option is a terrible idea. Niche build is still an existing build. Why the hell would you want to promote removing gameplay from the game?

Rinky DinkyFeb 28, 20152 votes

It takes a chunk of his power budget.

They would buff him somewhere else.

AnidanFeb 28, 20152 votes

Pretty sure the instant cast on Veigar's E was a chunk of his power budget on its own and it was straight-up removed with no compensation for the champion himself outside of Q and the W he'll rarely get to use on champions now.

Just because they remove or change something doesn't mean they'll buff the champion for it. If they remove the AD Ratio on his Q, it's unlikely they'd buff him in any meaningful way whatsoever.

Rinky DinkyMar 1, 20151 votes

Riot already said they fucked up on Veigar -_-