Reminder the DFG ''Compensation'' was a huge nerf to Veigar and Mordekaiser.

Matezoide·Jul 18, 2015·72 votes·2,718 views

Title.

71 Comments

Silents429Jul 18, 201543 votes

Reminder.

Mordekaiser is not someone you want to be stronger.

And Veigar is fine.

KONO RUBICK DAJul 18, 20151 votes

reminder

a rework is intended to FIXE IT when you don't want a champion to be strong

Silents429Jul 18, 20152 votes

Whos?

KONO RUBICK DAJul 19, 20151 votes

Mordekaiser ??

Raid Boss MordeJul 19, 20156 votes

There are people out there who enjoy playing him though, and some of us would like him to be more playable in an era of mobility. A rework would be perfect.

ArkenStormJul 19, 20156 votes

I enjoy playing both mordekaiser and Veigar, and they are both fine right now

TyaldanJul 19, 20154 votes

I agree having played both of them. Going too fast on morde? Grab rylais. its beastmode on him now. Veigars stun not instant? boo hoo no one has 1.5 sec reaction in a huge teamfight, as long as you arent blind firing it you are guaranteed to get at least one or two in it. I dont know why people are complaining about veigar sepecifcally, because ive only played him after the rework, and he is a very rewarding champ to play. Got my first ever penta kill with him too.

LuciferJul 19, 20152 votes

Don't wanna be a dick, but you might have success with veigar in silver 5 because it's silver 5. Anywhere higher than gold, people are normally going to have enough brain cells to avoid his stun (and thus also his w) 90% of the time. Veigar is in a horrible spot right now.

ArkenStormJul 20, 20151 votes

I am in Gold 4, and you might be right. as of right now though, I still don't use it mostly to stun, I use it to set up stuff for my team, to trap the enemy, maybe burn their flash. Veigar is not a solo-carry, nor does he have to be. if you cannot trap someone in the cage(not saying YOU, just a general like anyone who plays veigar)then something is wrong with you. it is a piece of cake to trap them in it, and that gives you much more control over where they go

Blue Moon WolfJul 19, 20153 votes

say that to mords pizza feet :p kit rework, not really. VU, yes, very much so.

Raid Boss MordeJul 19, 20152 votes

He needs a rework because his kit has been very oppressive. He lacks a lot of counterplay, and because of this, Riot can't really just buff him. If that ever happened, we would have an unstoppable Morde from back in the old days. They need to change how his kit works, tweak his passive, give his opponents more room to fight against so they could actually buff him. Mordekaiser's kit is also very boring to use, and isn't interactive.

Look at his Q: Single target damage or AoE damage

That W: Increase resistances, AoE Damage, situational movement speed

Then his E: Damage in a cone

His ultimate is the only interactive ability he has, besides the new effect on his W (speed boost). I would really like them to add more than just a "damage in a cone" to his E, or just give him a new E all together.

NarasimhaJul 19, 20153 votes

I... can only assume you haven't played Morde, or you're just joking.

Counterplay? How about the fact that his abilities cost health, he has no health regen mechanic outside of his ult, and he has one of the lowest base regens in the game? Building Revolver's isn't a choice for him, its a goddamn necessity. Or how about his complete lack of CC? Either one is pretty big counterplay.

Raid Boss MordeJul 19, 20152 votes

Havent played Morde? Go check my match history, he's one of the only champs I play. Yes, his health costs, no mobility, no CC, and lower damage than most mages are parts of his counterplay; it's a weakness he needs. What I mean by lack of counterplay is his laning phase against most melee champs. There normally isn't much they can do against him. Another big problem that Mordekaiser has right now is that he's a feast or famine type of champ. If he gets ahead, he's extremely difficult to take down. If he gets behind, he's as useless as a minion.

NarasimhaJul 19, 20151 votes

What I mean by lack of counterplay is his laning phase against most melee champs. There normally isn't much they can do against him.

I'd argue the opposite. Morde does well against assassins. But other than that,there are plenty of melee laners that can go more than toe-to-toe with Morde. In top lane alone, theres Darius, Cho'gath, Yorick, Riven, Renekton, and others. Anyone who naturally builds tanky or has some decent sustain becomes a monumental task for Morde.

Raid Boss MordeJul 19, 20151 votes

That's why I said most. There are many melee champs who will destroy Mordekaiser: anyone who's tankier, lots of hard CC, and has more sustain. Assassins basically HAVE to avoid Mordekaiser at all points in the game.

SociopathFriendJul 19, 20152 votes

He means there's nothing to actually do against Morde. Did he use Q? He hits you, end of story. W is just a blanket AoE of damage plus stats. E is a nigh-instant skillshot, you're in it or you're not. Are you in range of R? Good for you.

There's no dodging of the Mordekaiser, there is being in range or out of it. That's not the same thing as building items- that's simply how Morde works.

ArkenStormJul 20, 20151 votes

i was referring to the kit argument

Silents429Jul 19, 20151 votes

Assuming you mean Mordekaiser yes, He does need a rework, not that badly as he still functions and can work quite well at times.

RrettJul 19, 20153 votes

And Veigar is fine.

Tell that to anyone above diamond. He's shit.

Silents429Jul 19, 20151 votes

How

RrettJul 19, 20152 votes

He had his pros and cons and you could win against him easily.

I mean, irelia could run through the whole team and kill him no problem at all. Merc treads and banshees were usualyl built on everyone so his stun was useless late game.

I played him a lot, and my conclusion was he was extremely balanced.

Silents429Jul 19, 20155 votes

I don't follow, I asked how he was shit. Pros and Cons doesn't mean there isn't a broken aspect to his kit.

Like a big cage instant stun for instance.

Knight SoIaire Jul 18, 201511 votes

and katarina didnt get one when i saw them buying it every game katarina needs dfg compensation .. she is unplayable without it

CasterGilgameshJul 19, 20152 votes

she really doesn't need one she is one of the fastest damage dealing champions in the game she can literally blind side people with her burst plus she has item 3285 now so it adds more to her AOE

MohawkBirdJul 19, 201520 votes

No. He means she needs DFG "compensation".

evil laugh ensues

ArkenStormJul 19, 20159 votes

you mean Veigar evil laugh ensues

CasterGilgameshJul 19, 20157 votes

oh i see what you did there evil laughter

BobbyCarHaterXJul 19, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QMim36Ee,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-07-18T22:47:50.070+0000)

and katarina didnt get one when i saw them buying it every game katarina needs dfg compensation .. she is unplayable without it

Yes please, for example make her q a skillshot, remove heal. red. marks from ult, remove dmg red. from e and add 0.1ap ratio to her q.

s LessThanThreeJul 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QMim36Ee,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-07-18T22:47:50.070+0000)

and katarina didnt get one when i saw them buying it every game katarina needs dfg compensation .. she is unplayable without it

hahahaha funny joke mate why dont we also bring back release darius too except give him 200 extra movement speed and make him manaless

Knight SoIaire Jul 20, 20151 votes

also bring back release darius

they already did that

s LessThanThreeJul 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QMim36Ee,comment-id=000500020000,timestamp=2015-07-20T20:34:22.724+0000)

they already did that

darius is troll pick right now hes really bad

MohawkBirdJul 19, 20155 votes

Give Veigar some buffs in everything other than his castle. I hate to break to everyone but that practically instant AoE stun was toxic as fuck. I don't care about his damage, his late-game, his AoE, or his burst. I'm fine with giving Veigar some damage back but his stun needed to be toned down. A basic ability with that kind of potential is just ridiculous.

ConturbatioJul 19, 20156 votes

People started calling his E unhealthy out of nowhere just because Riot said so along his "compensation" buffs... I mean, it has been there for over 6 years O.o and NONE EVER complained about it! Even bronze players who get stomped by Veigar only complained about his damage and not his "instant" stun that only proc'd when interacting with a very thin wall that can be juked anytime.

RrettJul 19, 20151 votes

He was balanced overall.

IceKingChernobogJul 19, 20151 votes

his stun wasn't exactly instant(depending on how well you can aim it) Now Annie has a freaking instant AoE stun/Burst and that shit is still unhealty as fuck as she can just literally flash up to you and end your existence with you having little to no reaction time, and lets not forget about Ryze and his new perma snare

MohawkBirdJul 19, 20151 votes

Annie's stun is tied to an ultimate. Veigar had an AoE stun with that much potential tied to a basic ability. Not saying Annie isn't BS sometimes, but be thankful her's isn't on a basic ability.

Maximum CanJul 19, 20151 votes

uh... annie's stun is her passive and procs every 4 spellcasts. instant application with W.

MohawkBirdJul 19, 20151 votes

I was referring to the her ultimate. The stun on her basic abilities isn't nearly as big of a problem compared to the instant cast huge one on her ultimate.

LilxPaprikaJul 18, 20154 votes

They need to fix spellvamp as per this suggestion: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/TaXPYTao-spellvamp-100-scale-on-aoe-but-with-100-cap-as-thoughwas-singletargetoverlap-w-current-equation Then item 3146 would be solid on Mordekaiser . And wota would also help veigar more. I actually think wota would be really good on veigar. He doesn't have much escape so sustain could be one form of survivability plus true spellvamp on stacks sounds really strong. We all know how good nasus sustains with his q is.

PeetreeBummJul 18, 20151 votes

Get a Lich Bane and a Gunblade? Two extra bursts. Actually 3 and they will be around 500 damage each, so I don't see much of a problem.

Diananmen SquareJul 18, 20156 votes

Yeah, I don't think Lich Bane goes well with Veigar..

CrettJul 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Exotic Tuna Can,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QMim36Ee,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-18T18:32:05.768+0000)

Yeah, I don't think Lich Bane goes well with Veigar..

50% AP nuke on a burst champion that scales infinitely with AP It's always gone well on him with me, and even gives mana and MS which are both things he likes. (especially considering i always build seraph's)

Maximum CanJul 19, 20151 votes

it requires you to auto attack. he has a bad auto attack range, and he is one of the squishiest mages. and there's no point in the game where it's a superior option to another item unless you have an obscene amount of AP (e.g. game has gone on for 2 hours already)

MatezoideJul 18, 201523 votes

What are you talking about? I am not saying they cant be played. I am saying that Riot changed their kits in ways that made them even weaker than before.

Veigar's stun got a delay and he lost damage. Mord lost damage, has no health regena anymore and gains way less stats from his Ghost now.

They are objectively weaker now. Their ''compensation'' nerfed them harder than actual nerfs.

A Miss FortuneJul 18, 201513 votes

I think Veigar's stun realistically needed to be nerfed, otherwise his kit was fine. I don't know why they nerfed his damage and then just said "oh but you can POTENTIALLY stack more AP on him".

I also don't like how they turned him into basically an anti-mage-mage. His ultimate will one-shot people easily if they're AP, but if they're AD his damage noticeably is a lot lower.

I want him to be an evil-ish mage, not just a Kassadin 2.0

Vincent LuciusJul 19, 20152 votes

His ult can blow AP people up, but an E W Q combo can kill pretty much any carry late game, unless they have Maw, which means maybe one more Q and an ignite. His W has a 1 per 1 AP scaling ratio, right? That's a lot of magic if you stack Q properly.

SaiannaJul 19, 20155 votes

His identity was always as anti-mage mage.

His ultimate was always aimed at squishy mages.

So they didn't turn him that way. He has always been like this. What's more his first passive was stealing % of enemy AP in AOE radius around him. That's like anti-mage feature carved on his face :)

KONO RUBICK DAJul 19, 20151 votes

i miss this passive

Count ZubatJul 19, 20151 votes

Veigar changes, yeah, they were nerfs. But Morde? The only nerf he got was HP regen and W damage. Other than that, Morde's ult got huge buff: additional health for Morde when he gets ghost? Sweet. Ghost getting up to 100 bonus AD? That is AWESOME! It makes non-AD champions ghosts more useful and AD ghosts even more powerful. Morde got buffed. Unfortunately, Veigar was practically Olafed for a whole patch, and then slightly improved. But still, he's shadow of former self.

MatezoideJul 19, 20153 votes

Mordekaiser gets a part of the ghost's Bonus Health, thats literally worthless unless he goes after a tank or full build bruiser.

Mord used to give 75% of his own AD. The only time the 100 AD is a buff is at level 16 and only if he didnt buy a Gunblade. Also a huge nerf to hus ghost's AD at levels 6 and 11 (25 and 50 buff, respectively). Theres also the part where Mord himself would get 20% AD from the ghost (Which significantly increased the strength of his Q, i should add).

But wait, there is more! Before, Mordekaiser would also give his AP to the Ghost. This may look like nothing, but Mord used to get 20% of that AP as well. This means that he would always gain at least 15% bonus AP regardless of who he ulted. See where i am going with this? Compared to pre "buff" Mordekaiser is a lot weaker now when he has a Ghost under his command.

The only good thing he got out of this was a clunky movement speed boost.