Now that Skarner's been confirmed to be slated for a VGU

Malicious Metal··53 votes·9,766 views

And him being classified as a Diver, having been a Juggernaut and Vanguard prior, finally shows that Riot at least knows what direction they'd want to take his design.

But I'm digressing. Skarner has always been one of my favorite Champions, even though I haven't gotten to play him a lot recently thanks to the current Jungle meta. The fantasy of playing this gargantuan Crystal Scorpion that despite his monstrous appearance is one of the kindest and wisest champions in League's roster always fascinated me.

Yet his kit didn't age very well and after a rework count that rivals Ryze's I think Riot finally decided that they need to change his kit drastically in order to make him actually fit into League's current state.

In the following few paragraphs I will fangirl over Skarner and try to convey what I personally love about the Crystal Vanguard and what should stay in order to keep old Skarner players from weeping just as much as the Crystal scar.


Skarner's inherent kit problems Skarner has a huge problem when it comes to Satisfaction Most of the decision making behind his skills goes like this ->Is it off cooldown?->Yes?->Use it His Q in particular serves as nothing else but a cheap Sheen proc and every time I play Skarner I hear my Brother complain about the sound of me molesting my Q key.

Most of Skarner's skills are low impact and spammable, making for a pretty boring gameplay. And his Gameplay pattern as a diver is one of the most binary I've ever experienced.

He outright relies on flash in order to do his job as his onslaught is extremely telegraphed with popping his W and running at the enemy, wanting to get close enough to use his Impale and drag them to their demise.

All in all I personally think in order to finally be a good champion who can be enjoyed by a larger audience he needs to get more impactful abilities and a less binary gameplay pattern.

I really do like his E though as it has some cool mechanics and strategy to it.

Don't get me wrong though, I like Skarner, especially his ultimate is one of the most enjoyable things in the game!


So, what should remain? Every VGU kept something about the original champion, trying to capture what made them appealing to the old mains while improving on that fantasy.

Skarner in particular has TWO things that should remain in a way.

One; IMPALE Impale is a great ultimate and it really feels fitting for Skarner. It's extremely satisfying to impale someone and drag them off and it really fits his niche as a Diver: Isolating high priority targets and eliminating them

Two; His personality and VO I ADORE Skarner's VO, it's one of the reasons I don't use Battlecast that often as Skarner's voice is just one of the best there is. It perfectly shows that looks can be deceiving as Skarner isn't some rabid beast but a gentle creature who has been driven to cause violence due to the cruelty shown to his people.

He's the unsung hero for his kind, he's the vanguard who has to make the world save enough for the others to awaken and once again walk on Runeterran soil. He's got the wisdom of his heart stone, eon-old memories provide him with the wisdom of his ancestors and the power of said crystal makes him a force to be reckoned with. I don't want him to become some edgy monster guy who ENJOYS violence, he's a creature that most people will see as a threat when in fact he wouldn't harm unless given a good reason to do so.


What I would change Now, unto to actual kit changes I would suggest.

<Make Impale a skillshot> Impale is a great ultimate but lacks counterplay. Ideally I'd love it to be a medium ranged skillshot where Skarner lashes out with his Stinger and impales the first target hit, supressing them and dragging them off. It would make him rely less on being directly on top of the enemy and having to use flash in order to make the most out of his ultimate. And i'd look totally awesome, especially on battlecast where he actually has a Harpoon!

<Less Spammy, higher impact basic spells> You see this huge crystal scorpion, thinking his claws would be enough to tear you apart... Yet he just spams Q in order to kill you with a million papercuts. "Limb from limb...." "I will tear them apart..." "In claw's reach..." Skarner himself makes it sound like his claws would be extremely terrifying to meet up close, yet they're pretty lackluster in that regar. That's why I suggest making his primary Claw strike be on a higher cd than currently and deal more damage/have additional effects so that it's gonna be way more satisfying to use. Also, I'd advise not keeping the instant AoE aspect of it but make it somewhat of a skillshot strike in front of him as it'd be a bit more avoidable and allow for it to actually be strong.

Seeing that it's a VGU I don't want to go into other aspects of his kit but the Crystal Vanguard has to actually make use of his gigantic crystalline form and actually feel like the image we get from his lore and visuals.


In conclusion I think Skarner can really benefit from a rework in terms of Gameplay but less so in terms of visuals and lore/voice as we already lost one of our rather somber monster Champions with Galio's rework. Skarner himself is NOT a monster, he's a magnificent creature older than humanity or the rune wars with a gentle mind and immensely powerful crystal frame.

The main isse a Skarner VGU should try to tackle is his lack of Satisfying gameplay pattern and how binary his kit is. He can be one of the coolest champions if only his gameplay would be more enjoyable as his character is already one of the greatest there is!

http://img11.deviantart.net/5833/i/2013/320/e/6/the_scar_of_war_by_artsed-d6ty2k9.jpg

85 Comments

Gapybo18 votes

Just remove his damn spires. Such a nuisance to deal with. I lost interest in him completely with the new passive.

Ralanr1 votes

Yes. This is the biggest reason why I have no desire to even try him.

That and I find playing a giant scorpion weird, but mostly the spires.

Variks the Loyal6 votes

As a longtime Skarner player, I can say that the Spires don't bother me in and of themselves. They're 'fine', the issue is that they're inherently flawed and will tie Skarner to either always be OP or always be UP. Either he's powerful everywhere (Should be the goal for any champ), and super powerful in the spires (Thus probably OP), or powerful in the spires and not powerful anywhere else (UP). If he's powerful everywhere and not powerful in the spires, then there's no point.

The spires could work, and they do feel good at times in terms of jungling. If they weren't inherently flawed, I wouldn't be against the idea.

A new passive would probably solve most of Skarner's problems.

Eeyore5 votes

It's a shame he's been classified as a Diver, 'cause there's some awesome fan art for him as a tanky SOB.

https://img05.deviantart.net/d1a9/i/2014/225/0/1/skarner_redesign_by_hfesbra-d7ux155.jpg

Wyrmblade3 votes

I would train that pokemon.

Variks the Loyal3 votes

That's part of the reason I think Juggernaut is perfect for him.

A massive, earthborn scorpion monster would be a Juggernaut, I feel. And he still can be fast and also be a Juggernaut.

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Empty Lord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dWTuohsP,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2017-06-28T22:38:00.569+0000)

It's a shame he's been classified as a Diver, 'cause there's some awesome fan art for him as a tanky SOB.

https://img05.deviantart.net/d1a9/i/2014/225/0/1/skarner_redesign_by_hfesbra-d7ux155.jpg

He's a juggernaut under spires, and a diver without.

Eeyore2 votes

How does he even qualify as a diver? He doesn't have a dash. That class is literally defined by diving. Running desperately at the enemy team doesn't qualify as diving. He's closer to a Vanguard - he charges and locks down.

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

That's true, either way I'm trying to point out that he's a champion WITHOUT his spires, and that is where he needs to be buffed a little bit. Honestly all he needs is some type of mana regen.

SpecterVonBaren4 votes

Where was this said that he's confirmed to be getting a VGU?

DragonShea4 votes

They should keep David Lodge as His VA when they are doing his VGU.

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

It's like they throw darts at a board of postit notes every time they rework him. Wonder if he'll have another gimmick or just be a limited generalist again. Like your proposed solution for his ultimate, though it could have the same issue as warwicks; wasted cooldown if it misses, and in some cases could be the only tool he has to fight back.

Ralanr3 votes

Now that Skarner's been confirmed to be slated for a VGU

Links. Details. I need to know where they said this!

RiotMeddler45 votes

Please note there's a distinction here between 'Skarner could do with a VGU someday and we expect we'll do one at some point' versus 'Skarner's got a VGU scheduled' (which is not the case). The former list's pretty large (dozens of champs) the later list pretty short (half a dozen ish).

Solideus2 votes

Oh PLEASE share those lists with us mere mortals! D:

Sun Wu Ryuumoku6 votes

Meddler... SPEAK NOW. Share us this "pretty" short list [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Velzard of Koz26 votes

Urgot Urgot Urgot Evelynn Evelynn Evelynn

Jeddy01732 votes

Okay, so Urgot. I don't see anything else on the list.

DCYOUNG88821 votes

item 2055 See anything now?

Jeddy01717 votes

Oh thanks, now I do.

Velzard of Koz18 votes

Man cured his blindness with this one simple item!!! JUNGLERS HATE HIM!!!

An Undead brat7 votes

LeeSins HATE HIM!!!

FTFY

DCYOUNG8884 votes

Good, that will be 75g please.

Tails90164 votes

Ryze Can't forget this

Velzard of Koz4 votes

Oh, the annual Ryze rework.

RiotMeddler19 votes

Urgot and Eve are the announced two. Imagine we'll announce another within a month or two.

RookPusher13 votes

After her upgrade, will it be easier for her to move like that in heels?

Raxistaicho3 votes

You guys just posted Aatrox to the schedule.

RenownedWheat423 votes

Not a full VGU for Aatrox.

HANDHAVlNG1 votes

aatrox looks good.

DwarvenGiant2 votes

Meddler is referring to full VGUs (Warwick and Galio esque updates).

Aatrox is getting a Gameplay Update (albeit a big one).

Sukishoo1 votes

So that officially means URGOD IS NEAR :D

IxtaliKing1 votes

Pantheon Akali Swain Nunu Mordekaiser Irelia - willing to bet at least 4 of these are on that list...

Skins Project1 votes

no Aatrox

Skins Project1 votes

I GET IT ALREADY ;-;

SPARE MEEEEEEEEEEE

Variks the Loyal3 votes

I do not agree on the subject of his Q. I think the 'constant zone of threat' is actually fairly iconic to his identity, similar to Hecarim's Q or Garen's E. This zone of threat and damage ensures he remains a constant threat in teamfights, similar to other Juggernauts with AoE skills. Skarner's Q was my most cast ability last season (Yay for data!), and I don't think that should change.

I also believe he should be a Juggernaut, not a Diver. In my opinion, as someone who's been playing Skarner since his original kit, and as someone who sports Skarner as their highest mastery champion, being kitable and fast while being durable with high sustained damage falls perfectly within the Juggernaut mold. Divers are characters with dashes or blinks that can jump over walls or through a frontline. A Juggernaut runs through the frontline without a dash(Volibear, Udyr, Garen, etc), or rips through the frontline to get to the fragile enemies(Darius, Mordekaiser(?), etc).

The other thing I feel is crucial to Skarner is his sticking power. Skarner is someone who, once he's on you, is extremely difficult to peel off. Originally, this was his movement speed+constant slow on Q. Later on, it was stacking movement speed plus slow on E. Currently, it's slow+stun on E plus movement speed from passive. Skarner's damage needs to be limited to close range in order for this identity to persist, because if you're alone, and Skarner is on top of you, he is NOT coming off. His damage, then, is sustained instead of burst, because burst+sticking power would probably be an overpowered combination. This also means, at least in my opinion, his ultimate should remain point-and-click, partially for reliability and partially to limit his damage. A welcome change, though, would be for him to constantly AA the target of his ult while they're suppressed.

Skarner, currently, does more DPS than most Juggernauts. The main problem is his combat sustain and item dependence. His shield doesn't provide him with enough sustain, like Darius' Q heal or Mordekaiser's passive shield, and because he's primarily a jungler, he desperately struggles to keep up with the item builds of enemies.

Linna Excel3 votes

First and foremost, they need to get rid of the tower capture feature. If riot wants to keep them they should either be short term and work like zyra's passive, or else they should be an active like trundle's pillar.

IxtaliKing3 votes

Every VGU kept something about the original champion, trying to capture what made them appealing to the old mains while improving on that fantasy.

Karma - right...

I do agree with your assessment of Skarner though, would be cool to see what he'd be like with a proper rework. Skarner is one of the few champs I haven't gotten around to playing (spires put me off), but I think the character itself is cool and has a ton of potential.

Mordepool2 votes

Where did they say that

Predatorator2 votes

i'm really a fan of his ultimate having a little bit more range, like he lunges his tail to someone, drags him to himself, and then has another second or so to trag the enemy around.

Edit: also the Q! what you said about his Q is so alright

Arakadia2 votes

I want him to use his tail more too. I'm sad he only uses it for his ult.

Darathdecimator2 votes

Skarner main here, I don't think Skarner is actually slated for a VGU yet (as in one of the two VGU teams is planning to/has started work on him, he has been a candidate for a long time however. I agree with your idea of removing reliability from Impale, as it takes up so much of his power budget. Spammable skills however have always been a part of Skarner's identity, ever since his original passive which lowered his abilities cooldowns with auto attacks. Of course the nature of that design pushed his identity towards that of a juggernaut as he was favored in extended duels, and if Riot wants to move him towards a diver playstlye (which i don't necessarily agree with, but that's a digression), you could make an argument that they should decrease the uptime on his abilities. However i can think of another way to increase the impact of his abilities, and help deal the 'use it the second its up' issue that you highlighted. Make his abilities interdependent AKA make them interact with each other to some degree. That reinforces proper timing of his abilities, and allows them to made interesting. Frankly the fact that they have such low cooldowns, would allow his kit to be combo based (think Ryze).

On a side note, i feel like mentioning his power curve. Skarner has almost always been a late game champ, (some iterations have had a bit more power in the early-mid game then others) and I feel that should remain.

The Soulforged2 votes

I really liked him right before the juggernaut update where they randomly changed him completely. Hopefully he feels like a light diver again.

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

Honestly, I really like Skarner where he's at. There is only ONE change I would like to see:

item 3340 item 2055 item 2049

Or perhaps a Skarner-only item that allows him to place down his own Spires. Remove his current spires from the map, and only allow Skarner (and, if later added, other members of his species) to utilize the item. Cap them at 2, 3, whatever. Also, have the Spire's work like Rek'Sai's tunnels, where the enemy must see them first before they can contest them, rather than revealing through fog of war.

ALSO, WHEN PLACED, SPIRE'S HAVE AN ACTIVATION TIME AKIN TO 2-10 SECONDS BEFORE THEY APPLY THEIR EFFECTS. THIS WAY SKARNER CAN'T PLACE SPIRES AND INSTAGIBB SOMEONE, HE HAS TO PLAN AND THINK ABOUT WHERE THE NEXT FIGHT WILL BE.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

Ehh...

I feel like that's kinda gimmicky and wouldn't really work out in the actual game. Sure, you can move them but it still severely limits him to specific places on the map, which is inherently bad. He would suck just like he does now for pushes and sieges, wouldn't do well in the enemy base, and would need to either lose an item slot (Extremely bad, since Skarner depends on having 6 items), or a trinket slot (Not as bad, still bad).

Thresh Outta Fux1 votes

{quoted}

Ehh...

I feel like that's kinda gimmicky and wouldn't really work out in the actual game. Sure, you can move them but it still severely limits him to specific places on the map, which is inherently bad. He would suck just like he does now for pushes and sieges, wouldn't do well in the enemy base, and would need to either lose an item slot (Extremely bad, since Skarner depends on having 6 items), or a trinket slot (Not as bad, still bad).

All you need to do to fix that is make the item something that he would normally buy. Perhaps an enchantment for Trinity Force, only available to Crystal-Scar champions, or even his boots, similar to the old Homeguard. Everyone buys tier 2 boots.

As for map-specific strengths and weaknesses, Skarner can lane as he currently is, without a spire. You just have to play smart, something this Riven-filled community wouldn't understand. Literally just a small numbers buff to his passive, Q, W, or E would make it so that you lot could play him.

You can't view it as, "SKARNER REGULAR STRENGTH IS WITH SPIRES, WITHOUT HE WEAK" You have to see the spires as a buff, that makes him STRONK-er, like when Shyvana gets bonuses from killing drags, or how Trundle is particularly stronger inside his W.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Ugh... please leave poor Skarner alone. At this point they're not reworking him they're just mutilating his corpse. Skarner died when they removed his "permaslow" for being broken... then turned around and made release Ekko who could permaslow you just as easily while also being insanely mobile, doing % damage and having his R to bail if he got in too deep.

They have repeatedly massacred my poor, poor Skarner. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get rid of the stupid "crystal spires" bullshit that no one asked for... but they're just gonna ruin him AGAIN.

Skarner was my main jungler for the first season I picked up this game. I got outta bronze riding Skarner (and janna to a lesser extent) and I have seen Riot kneecap him over and over and over to fit some new buzzword that they're shooting around the office that particular month. I can't do a damned thing to stop them from doing this shit... but I hold out NO hope that they do anything right with it. If the thing turns out well... great. But I refuse to get my hopes up for a fourth god damned time so they can rework him into some horrible thing that no one asked for and then call it a day. There have been VERY few reworks that have gone well in general, and skarner's has always beena complete freaking garbage fire. I don't think anyone at Riot even knows what he does or plays the guy.

khorney1 votes

he is crap every since they reworked him. they made him weaker in every aspect

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