Rylais feels like a wasted slot

Bjørnetjenesten··100 votes·4,124 views

tldr: Rylais is not gold efficient, has no significant stats and there are better options in most cases. Rework it into something useful.

I agree that the slow nerf was needed (6.24), but the stats (75 ap and 300 hp) feels underwhelming and there are no actual reasons to build this item..

Mages usually get this as a semi defensive item to counter champions that engage onto them. The problem is that most mages already have some type of slow in their kit (or runes). There is no reason to waste a complete slot on this for a measly 20% slow and 300 hp?? Liandrys is a far better option with similar stats, as it gives defense and offense (magic pen and %hp burn) at the same time.

This item used to give a huge spike with 100 ap and 400 hp and massive (op) slow, but was nerfed and reworked to feel like an early game utlility item. Buying it early is not a good idea though, it has no mana or cdr and the defensive portion is not that significant. Morello and ROA are far better and more gold efficient options at the same price class.

If this item is supposed to be in the utlity class, along with zhonyas, Banshees veil and hextech items... then i suggest you add some cdr, mana or make it into a truly defensive item.

AD champions have a complete set of items and runes to shut down mages in any situation: merc boots, hexdrinker/maw, nullifying orb and mercurial schimitar, even wits end on certain champions. But mages can only buy zhonyas and add 5 armor from runes, they really need more armor items.

As and early game utlity item: 80 ap 300 hp 10% cdr Price: 2900+ g

or: 80 ap 300 hp 300 mana Price: 2900+ g

OR as a truly defensive option for mages against adcs, assassin and melee carries (yes this is biased): 60 ap 300 hp 40 armor Passive with AD shield or Attack Speed slow (Fits with the rylais crystal/slow theme) 3000 g

Edit: Tbh i think the slow is fine as it is now, its purpose is to improve sticking power and kiting power on lowrange mages.

If the slow on rylais was to be stronger, say 40 or 50%, it would have to trigger like ludens echo, where you could charge it up with some mechanic (moving, casting spells etc).

Or give it an internal cooldown, so the first spell hit will slow every 4 seconds, so the target also has some counterplay. This way you could have the item be healthy with a strong slow, but prevent abuse and permaslow on some champs._

106 Comments

Nymzo33 votes

Rylais feels like a wasted slot

item 3056: Speak for yourself.

wildfox9916 votes

{quoted}

item 3056: Speak for yourself.

what is that? a new item? (sarcastic)

Tails90164 votes

I saw an Udyr grab it once

I never underestimate Ohmwrecker now

LordGeovanni1 votes

You underestimating it doesnt make it powerful just that you didnt know ior respect what little power it has

Tails90161 votes

what little power it has

You will regret those words on day

LordGeovanni2 votes

been waiting to regret those words since mid season 3 i can wait a bit longer. ohm wrecker i think was literally removed from the game at one point because it was so unpopular because riot nerfed it

EkyonKun17 votes

I personally agree that perma slow items are pretty bad to fight against. I think it needs a stat buff, then turned into an active item

"Cold Spells - Active: For 10 seconds, all spell damage slows enemies by 15-40% (based on level) for 1 second" 120 second cooldown (Exact numbers can be changed)

Then give it 100 more health or maybe some CDR/Mana/Armor like you suggested. I don't WANT it to be a super high damage bursty item that gives defence and utility like before. I agree it needed nerfs, but MAN they sure gutted the fuck out of it.

Bjørnetjenesten7 votes

{quoted}

I personally agree that perma slow items are pretty bad to fight against. I think it needs a stat buff, then turned into an active item

"Cold Spells - Active: For 10 seconds, all spell damage slows enemies by 15-40% (based on level) for 1 second" 120 second cooldown (Exact numbers can be changed)

Then give it 100 more health or maybe some CDR/Mana/Armor like you suggested. I don't WANT it to be a super high damage bursty item that gives defence and utility like before. I agree it needed nerfs, but MAN they sure gutted the fuck out of it.

I think the passive is fine now, since its a weak slow that help the right mages kite, but cant be abused by long range nukers. If it was reworked to an active item, it would fit the same role as the glp-800 item, which tbh is only bought on a small pool of champs.

Linna Excel3 votes

Yes, item 3022 now and item 3116 when it was good are terrible to play against because if you can't kill the other guy you won't be able to escape them either.

Kaìju12 votes

It's a core item you straight up cannot go without on Aurelion Sol because you need the slow to kite out enemies. It feels really bad, doesn't help that he's also not doing well right now.

Bjørnetjenesten6 votes

{quoted}

It's a core item you straight up cannot go without on Aurelion Sol because you need the slow to kite out enemies. It feels really bad, doesn't help that he's also not doing well right now.

Exactly, if they added that 300 mana it would strait up be his first item rush. Same for Cassio, Karthus and other battle mages.

Majestic Owl5 votes

And Mordekaiser too... Mordekaiser

Mordepool2 votes

Riot and Community don't consider Morde when making item & balancing descisions. Nothing new there

Majestic Owl2 votes

Sadly yes... Sometimes i think he was left by riot intentionally, just for the laughs, to see how much and what kind of bugs can champion accumulate in time...

Linna Excel7 votes

It kind of is since riot overnerfed it. I still get it on zyra as a third item, but that's about it. I think Luden's arhi sometimes gets it 4th or 5th to good effect. It's problem is it doesn't have the tank stats for tanks, it doesn't have the AP for mages, and the utility needs to be a little stronger for supports.

Riot needs to pick a user.

Rinký Dinky7 votes

It even feels bad on Mordekaiser, someone whom it should be a priority purchase

Mordepool1 votes

I don't recommend buying it on Morde.

Majestic Owl1 votes

With all the dashes and blinks Morde has, i prefer to have rylais :D just a small chance to run away or get close to

Mordepool2 votes

Too small of a chance to matter when you have statistically better options

Void Baboon RF5 votes

You know it's extra garbage when Morde and Sol players are skipping it entirely.

waiting for WoW4 votes

Just slap an eternity passive and 300 mana on it.

I'd be happy with 10% cdr to though just ANYTHING to make it feel like a better purchase.

Linna Excel2 votes

I'd prefer a small scaling heal on spell hit or spell vamp than eternity. I just don't like that passive.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

That would be horrible. How to remove another item from Mordekaiser Vladimir Rumble , and Rylai's being core on Morde, because ... you know... no CC or mobility.

LordGeovanni1 votes

The item lost literally nothing but gained stats and a passive that they cant use how does that remove it from them? It becomes worse for them in relation to other users but it changes not one thing for them.

EkyonKun2 votes

It's likely implied the cost would increase due to that significant of a buff. The mana alone is 420 gold in stats.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

Like the other person said, giving it an eternity passive AND giving it 300 mana would increase the total price

LordGeovanni1 votes

A slight cost nerf isnt gonna change its power for those champions.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

But it would. The item is already pretty horrible, and increasing its price wouldn't help. It would just become less gold efficient than it already is

wildfox994 votes

60 ap 300 hp 40 armor Passive with AD shield or Attack Speed slow (Fits with the rylais crystal/slow theme) 3000 g

making it an anti-AD item would be fantastic,but i think the stats wouldn't fit,maybe a 60 AP 60 armor 10% CDR passive: hitting a champion with an ability slows his movement speed by 10% for 1 sec and his attack speed by 5% for 2.5sec. this slow can stack up to 5 times (stacks last 2.5 sec,DoT apply 1 stack every 1.5 sec)

you need to spam abilities for making it effective,so long range mages like lux wont abuse it,but champ like karthus will like it as long they can hit their skill constantly

price:2900g

build path item 3191 + item 3108

Bjørnetjenesten4 votes

I think the armor and hp combined would be much stronger and much needed, since flat armor is often negated directly by lethality, but battlemages need time to deal the damage.

wildfox992 votes

{quoted}

I think the armor and hp combined would be much stronger and much needed, since flat armor is often negated directly by lethality, but battlemages need time to deal the damage.

hp and armor would be too strong in one item that give even damage and utility

Mordepool5 votes

Wowowo A hybrid offensive and defensive item for AP champions can't have that. Never mind all the ones AD champions have

Yets42403 votes

You say this, but MR + AD + cleanse + lifesteal + movements speed items exist for ADCs. . .

And AS + Crit + movespeed + % damage reduction

and AD + armor + extra fucking life

Not to mention shit like Maw, or all the AD + HP + other shit items them have as well.

FutureCreator1 votes

The problem is you would start seeing this on tanks like maokai and cho gath. CC, armor, hp and AP in one item sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Bjørnetjenesten2 votes

40 armor, 300 hp, 60 ap, wont be too strong on tanks, might even be a sacrifice in tankiness, which is fair for the damage they get. You could add a unique passive like cold steel (wardens mail), so tanks wont build it.

Azadethe4 votes

I disagree on the Slow nerfs. There are so many formidable slows atm that Rylai's is the worst slowing item in the game. I actually take an Iceborn over a Rylai's in ranked on mages because it has a more tangible effect. And, Frozen Mallet beats the both. And then there's the mass abundance of skill slows.

Atm, Rylai's is ineffective in doing what it's supposed to do: slowing down juggernauts and fast champs to catchable speeds. Instead, Garen, who it used to counter, now can make it completely ineffective, and The slow isn't enough to keep a Nasus off you if you're withered.

They need to do like they have with mallet and give Rylai's a stronger effect if used on single target spells (Variable slows). 20% just isn't enough in some cases.

Valeckserai4 votes

I remember when I would buy this item every game as Karthus

rip those days.

invisiblecat14 votes

I buy it when I also plan to get item 3151 That's about it

Hyrum Graff3 votes

Most of the time I used to buy rylai's, it was for the liandrylai combo. But with Liandry giving 80 AP now, it's better in a high AP build and the burn is more of an afterthought (particularly with adaptive helm being a thing).

Riot needs to define the target users and play pattern that Rylai is intended to enable and remove unecessary strengths so it can do its intended job well.

Raid Boss Morde3 votes

Were you really saying Rylai's slow was op when Frozen Mallet still exists? item 3022

That's a 40% slow on every auto for 1.5 seconds (30% ranged), and auto attacks have no cooldown. Rylai's was at best a 40% slow for 1 second, but you know, abilities actually have cooldowns.

SB Arneeman3 votes

In my opinion it was a major mistake by Riot to nerf Rylais this much. It was way too powerful before, but now it's way too weak. The midlane was balanced around old rylais, making the nerf destroy champions like Azir(until the recent rework), Viktor and Brand.

SwiftKitten883 votes

i have started this countless times.. the old item 3116 was fine.. all it needed was an internal cooldown per target hit of like 5 seconds so u couldnt permaslow somone.

the item was balanced around "slow target for 1 second" not "slow them until they die.

although on the other side of that coin, honestly with damage creep right now, it doesn't even take a whole second to bring someone down so... yeah..

PhDs Nuts2 votes

Add mana to Rylais? lol...

ITT: Fuck Morde.

Bjørnetjenesten3 votes

Give morde a manabar

Mordepool3 votes

That's dumb

Lunar Lunacy2 votes

I personally LOVE rylais, I would love to build it every game if I could!

...But I can't, sadly I think you are right, every time I even consider it, there's something better I can spend my money on.

Upvoted

Onecimus1 votes

[deleted]

Silmaril4 votes

Slows don't stack so it's useless on her.

Cunky1 votes

Annie BrandCassiopeia Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Karthus Katarina Kennen KogMaw (AP Kog) Malzahar Mordekaiser Rumble Singed Swain Teemo Velkoz Xerath Ziggs all benefit from buying it. So it isn't really a wasted slot. It's just one with a specific niche.

Bjørnetjenesten3 votes

Yes you are correct. But you also benefit from buying 6 dorans rings... until you realized other items would be more efficient in those item slots.

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