Isn't Kai'sa still way too strong?

Frontline Fury·May 21, 2018·8 votes·1,810 views

She seems to be winning every possible matchup in bot lane. Is it just my games this happens in?

9 Comments

Eternal TormentMay 21, 20183 votes

Kai'sa is as strong as her team is. If she has many cc's to apply, or coordinates herself well, then she can really win anything. BUT those strengths are also her flaws. Kai'sa is someone who, more than any other adc, depends on positioning. Her kit requires her as a ranged champion to go into almost-melee range to do serious damage, and if her team is in brittles then she is shut down entirely. and a solo-carry build is way too costy and mid-lategame dependant to be taken into consideration.

Make her team spread around, countering kai'sa means taking "divide and conquer" into a literal sense of the words.

the main problem with kai'sa is probably that she as an adc can utilize all her damage without any crits because she has an execute she can proc with just an AA. i have only on first time kai'sas seen a crit build, any other has a offensive hybrid stat build that plays around her core flaws to upgrade all 3 basic skills.

Monkey With GunsMay 21, 20182 votes

You have to play more aggro on her and look for picks that prevent her from being protected. You have a 5 hit buffer to work around the trading stance in lane. Punish her early and be meticulous about keeping your lead. This is the only way. Edit: But ya I agree, she's still too strong

BLIGHTBRINGERMay 21, 20182 votes

I think why people find it that she's too strong is because how easily her passive can be applied by others who have CC (not sure if it applies with Slows as well). This can be a game changer, especially in the early game.

Imagine a Kaisa with someone like Leona Thresh Alistar Blitzcrank Nautilus Braum who naturally have a lot of CC in their kit and one single CC applies 1 mark.

is able to apply 3 marks alone with her Q + E + R is able to apply 2 marks alone with his Q + E is able to apply 3 marks alone with his Q + W + E is able to apply 2 marks alone with his Q + E is able to apply 3 marks alone with his Passive + Q + R is able to apply 2 marks alone with his Passive + R

I once faced Kai'Sa and Braum and got destroyed early because of how much damage they both can deal in the early game.

JavelinJoeMay 21, 20182 votes

Punish her early. Her build is not friendly for early game power spikes, needing at minimum 3 items to fully evolve all her skills (though most only do the Q and E). She lacks significant burst early on compared to her later power, but do not ignore it either. Simply play aggressive vs her since she herself has no CC or instant mobility pre 6 (post 6 is still limited too) to escape with. Her E is tricky, but not impossible to estimate where she is headed. Double ranged bot lane is good vs her since she like hard CC supports (of which almost all are melee/low damage) to proc her passive with.

Frontline FuryMay 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Punish her early. Her build is not friendly for early game power spikes, needing at minimum 3 items to fully evolve all her skills (though most only do the Q and E). She lacks significant burst early on compared to her later power, but do not ignore it either. Simply play aggressive vs her since she herself has no CC or instant mobility pre 6 (post 6 is still limited too) to escape with. Her E is tricky, but not impossible to estimate where she is headed. Double ranged bot lane is good vs her since she like hard CC supports (of which almost all are melee/low damage) to proc her passive with.

Problem is, i'm a top/jungle player. Its very difficult to punish kaisa early, especially when she usually picks up a kill or two before i get level 3.

She is still one of the strongest marksmen in the early game - she is not actually weak in the early levels, she just gets so absurdly much stronger after two items that she seems weak by comparison.

Her passive outdamages everything else, plain and simple. It's like a slightly less oppressive kog'maw.

JavelinJoeMay 21, 20182 votes

especially when she usually picks up a kill or two before i get level 3.

Get better teammates then. If this is a consistency, then it may be your side that is lacking (if it is your premade bot lane). If it is not, then maybe consider banning her.

In terms of strength, she is around Jinx level. Not great, but not terrible. Her ability to snowball is high, but that is because she is a scaling based champion. With a good team behind her, she can be very strong. But if handled appropriately, she is no stronger than any other hyperscaling ADC. The current META is tilted slightly in he favor though with the poke/damage support/bot lane being less ideal.

Problem is, i'm a top/jungle player. Its very difficult to punish kaisa early

So play ADC and do it yourself. As a top, you usually have very little say pre-level 6 what happens bot lane you know (unless you have that rare 5 man gank bot pre-6). Maybe ask the jungle or mid to gank/roam bot more often.

Frontline FuryMay 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Get better teammates then. If this is a consistency, then it may be your side that is lacking (if it is your premade bot lane). If it is not, then maybe consider banning her.

In terms of strength, she is around Jinx level. Not great, but not terrible. Her ability to snowball is high, but that is because she is a scaling based champion. With a good team behind her, she can be very strong. But if handled appropriately, she is no stronger than any other hyperscaling ADC. The current META is tilted slightly in he favor though with the poke/damage support/bot lane being less ideal.

So play ADC and do it yourself. As a top, you usually have very little say pre-level 6 what happens bot lane you know (unless you have that rare 5 man gank bot pre-6). Maybe ask the jungle or mid to gank/roam bot more often.

I have begun banning Kai'sa instead of my personal counter picks (like Jax or Camille) due to how much impact she has on my bot lanes.

I always tell my jungler to please focus on bot lane. Doesn't help unfortunately - Kaisa's passive just blows up everyone before the jungler even finishes their first clear.

And this is diamond, mind you. A diamond adc is NOT going to just sit there and let their advantage go to waste.

And unlike Jinx, you can't really build against Kai'sa. Jinx typically builds Infinity edge and rapid fire cannon, which lets her opponents rush things like Ninja tabi and warden's mail. Kai'sa on the other hand - you have to build the same things you build against Jinx AS WELL AS what you might typically build against Kog'maw.

Only tanks can afford this and still somewhat stay relevant in the game.