"Dark Horse" picks

Kotex·Apr 16, 2015·20 votes·3,958 views

What else could riot suddenly make a thing by advertising it as a "Dark Horse?" I remember a game a long time ago where someone wanted to take Urgot mid (or Urgot in general for that matter), and they got flamed to oblivion. Same for J4 top or mid. Now these are things that people are ok with because Riot snapped their magic fingers and said "It's a thing now" Doesn't it make you wonder what else could be in the meta if people gave it a chance to be? It takes people to experiment with out of meta picks to find they fit into the meta. That's what riot is trying to do, but the average players are too afraid and judgemental to be that innovative of their own accord, until the pros do it, or Riot advertises it.

(Obligatory mention)

96 Comments

DJ Di0Apr 16, 20159 votes

Notice how they haven't made a support Dark Horse yet (meaning a support going into another lane, not like the Brand Support Dark Horse)

Joe DreddApr 16, 20154 votes

Because supports in solo lanes is the most cancerous thing ever.

DJ Di0Apr 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Because supports in solo lanes is the most cancerous thing ever.

Well Lulu (in general) is/was, but Sona/Taric/Leona can't be /that/ bad.

KairyaApr 16, 20157 votes

Lich Bane Sona is all I have to say...

DJ Di0Apr 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Lich Bane Sona is all I have to say...

Yeah she has good burst, but if she doens't kill her target with R and Q, she's a sitting duck.

KairyaApr 16, 20151 votes

Thats why you get the Lichbane.

Additional Damage on ever AA since she can spam her Q W E pretty much AND still has her passive - Powerchord. There are other real midlaners who are also "sitting ducks" after using their skills. It's actually typical for a lot of mages.

At least Sona can still shield, heal and speed herself up to get to saftey.

DJ Di0Apr 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Thats why you get the Lichbane.

Additional Damage on ever AA since she can spam her Q W E pretty much AND still has her passive - Powerchord. There are other real midlaners who are also "sitting ducks" after using their skills. It's actually typical for a lot of mages.

At least Sona can still shield, heal and speed herself up to get to saftey.

Powerchord doesn't do much damage unless it's Stacatto, which is essentially on a 12 second cooldown if you're trying to spam it (24 second cooldown at level 1, 16 second cooldown at level 2). Her heal is good with some ap, but trying to using it constantly in lane will drain your mana extremely quickly; it has the lowest efficiency at rank 1 out of all the heals in the game (80 mana for a measly 30 hp back).

KairyaApr 16, 20152 votes

Powerchord doesn't do much damage? uhhh.....suuuure....

She can beat squishies to half life with just a q-powerchord+Lich bane...

DJ Di0Apr 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Powerchord doesn't do much damage? uhhh.....suuuure....

She can beat squishies to half life with just a q-powerchord+Lich bane...

Anyone with Lich Bane will do more damage (TF, Fizz, Diana,)

Sona's powerchord does 26 damage at level 1? Like I said, it's only when combined with /Stacatto/ and, like you said, Lich Bane, will she do any damage; Stacatto has a long cooldown, and if she doesn't kill the target with her powerchord she is not going to win the trade.

Joe DreddApr 16, 20151 votes

Who the fuck has lich bane at level one

KairyaApr 16, 20151 votes

Okay. I'll explain it like this. item 3100 item 3057

Lich Banes Passive is granting addional attack damage after using a Skill. Yes this item works on other mages as well, but it's not the point. The point is that Sona works very very well with this item, because Sona also works well with cooldown reduction causing her to have very low cooldowns. Let me mention here, that even without additional cdr her cds are not that high. Sonas Trades don't end with either her Q or her powerchord, because she can still do additional damage due to Lich Bane on almost every AA, if you time it right. And honestly? How much damage does Diana do with her Q at lvl 1? We are not talking about what happens at level 1, because usually nothing happens at that level. Everyone tries to out-cs their lane-opponent so they get to lvl 2 first. Also no one has a Lich Bane, or even a Sheen at lvl 1 (Remember ARAM starts at lv3).

Sona often reaches the point in game, where she can continually spam her q w e without much of a brake in it. So she goes: q, aa, w, aa, e, aa, q, aa .... and so on, once in a while triggering her Ult. In Addition to that you might get a Powerchord, that is empowered by using Q before and the Lichbane. And this does a lot of damage. (as does her q in generall)

Did you never wonder why people kept banning Sona in URF? It's not only because of her heal, I can tell you that much. Other champions can heal as well...

Another strength of Sonas by the way is her low Skill-Level. She has no skillshots (Her Ult is so big that is qualifies as a Skill-Wave but not a "shot") and she doesn't have any point and klick skills. Only Skill-Activation and Auto-Attack. This makes her especially effective, because it doesn't allow for dodges.

By the way Diana, TF and Fizz build Lich Bane because they have to AA due to their skills/passives anyways. The Item does well on them too, but for different reasons. To be honest the best comparison of Sona -Lich Bane synergy that comes to my mind is Irelia - Trinity Force.

ChaosThiefApr 16, 20151 votes

I must hop in to say AP nami. That is all.

KairyaApr 16, 20151 votes

Haha I was waiting for that :D

IcyPepperApr 16, 20152 votes

Why...? Let people play freely.

Joe DreddApr 16, 20156 votes

It's not a case of people playing freely. Supports were made to work off low gold. Sometimes, when they have a fuckton of gold in a solo lane, they become unbearable.

IcyPepperApr 16, 20151 votes

Well, I want to argue, but... release Zyra. 'Nuff said.

BiffoloApr 16, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Well, I want to argue, but... release Zyra. 'Nuff said.

Zyra was actually supposed to be a mid laner upon release iirc. I wasn't around at that time, but im pretty sure she got shifted to support because her bases were obscenely high, and pen was cheap enough. Mostly because that was before our current line of gold gen items, so her doing damage without items was massive plus side.

Meep ManApr 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dIGnjEIu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-16T01:08:21.381+0000)

Notice how they haven't made a support Dark Horse yet (meaning a support going into another lane, not like the Brand Support Dark Horse)

Lulu Top Dark Horse and Sona Middle Dark Horse, maybe Thresh Top Dark Horse

DJ Di0Apr 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dIGnjEIu,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-04-16T02:02:57.948+0000)

Lulu Top Dark Horse and Sona Middle Dark Horse, maybe Thresh Top Dark Horse

Followed immediately by nerfs :D

OJ191Apr 16, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dIGnjEIu,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-04-16T02:07:22.117+0000)

Preceded immediately by nerfs :D

FTFY

rescuedApr 16, 20151 votes

Thresh/Leona as Top, Sona / Soraka Mid & I've seen Braum JG before

DJ Di0Apr 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Thresh/Leona as Top, Sona / Soraka Mid & I've seen Braum JG before

Haven't tried Leona/Thresh in other places, but I sometimes do Mid Sona, and have practiced Taric Jungle in customs (was just curious to see how the cinderhulk changes affected him).

rescuedApr 17, 20151 votes

Oh! You definitely gotta try Thresh as AD. + with his passive he naturally gets tanky. Its awesome. ^^

Voluug13Apr 16, 20155 votes

I have played Taric Top/Jg since ages ago, to pretty good sucess. Also Poppy jg.

But taric top is such an awesome thing when you fight an all AD toplaner like Riven.

But people flamed me because Taric. However from my point of view, people are way more relaxed about that that years ago in S3, when people literally flammed you because you picked Malphite jungle.

SlaaneshineApr 16, 20155 votes

This. I was an avid Urgot player back in those days. Was not easy getting a game.

Voluug13Apr 16, 20152 votes

Before her Deletion&Reemplazement, I was a True Karma main.

Imagine my pain. Imagine the enemy midlane Diana's pain upon being pwned by the fan goddess.

JamnonApr 16, 20151 votes

How do you deal with how mana starved Taric is?

What's your build path for top? I generally first grab a item 3024 against AD.

Voluug13Apr 16, 201511 votes

My build path usually depends on who I am fighting, but item 3024 is a pretty good thing. Also, the biggest mistake people do is to spam the Q heal that has a gigantical mana cost. Use mainly W and E for hits and runs. Potions for both health and mana are good earlygame, specially since health potions are better that the Q heal unless the situation calls for it (like surviving an ignite).

Taric, is, ironically, a lot like Riven when it comes to passive management, as you need to use your passive the best way possible to raise your damage to a decent place. Also good passive management makes you have a pretty low cd stun!

item 3025 is an awesome item for Taric. Also, despite everything, item 3028 is still good and both its upgrades are decent, with item 3222 giving more MR and item 3174 giving more CDR and damage, even on Taric top. item 3110 , item 3800 and item 3512 are also awesome. item 3075 will always be awesome. Basically everything with Armor and/or Health is good on Taric. item 3068 and item 3143 , with item 3065 and item 3102 being pretty good for different reasons.

Since Taric with his kit plus item 3025 is dealing mixed damage, something like item 3153 and item 3157 are good too! More AP means you are more bursty, while most AD items give you better sustained damage thanks to lifesteal and more AD/AS/ArPen that interacts with Shatter's debuff.

basically, I start with item 1054 against magic/mixed damage and item 1029 3 item 2003 2 item 2004 against pure AD like Fiora and Riven .

AmightyTApr 16, 20151 votes

Do you just do standard toplane runes or anything special for taric like flat mana?

Voluug13Apr 17, 20151 votes

Hybrid Pen Marks, Armor Yellows, MR Blues and Armor quints.

FluxBoundApr 17, 20151 votes

What about RoA?

Voluug13Apr 17, 20151 votes

Roa could work, as it gives basically of everything that you could need, and can work well with chalice and Zz'rot thanks to the mixed defenses and bigger mana pool. Heck, if you are going IG, RoA, FH you could also go with Mikael's and Muramana if you want to.

warpenguin555Apr 16, 20155 votes

Leona jungle and Nami mid come to mind. Nami mid is fun as hell

ChaosThiefApr 16, 20151 votes

Ever do nami mid against lulu mid?

... let the support mid rule this world.

5000000000000000Apr 16, 20154 votes

I hope they do AD supports.

AD Ashe support can do tons of poke damage and low-cost massive slow. She lacks hard CC pre-6, though. AD Thresh support can also do tons of poke damage with Flay passive. All the CC is still there, and passive grants him some AP.

RamboDash15Apr 16, 20153 votes

Ashe is love, Ashe is life

LittleBlastApr 16, 20153 votes

Dat Ashe

Nucleophilic atkApr 16, 20151 votes

Problem with AD/AP Thresh is that the enemy ADC can poke them down to no health instantly lol.

5000000000000000Apr 16, 20151 votes

How does going AD make thresh squishier?

The Red WardenApr 16, 20153 votes

People hate change, no matter the form.

BudupopsApr 16, 201522 votes

Khazix

Bouffon dAnglaisApr 16, 201512 votes

Syndra People fear what they cannot understand

KaipopApr 16, 20153 votes

Karma never fear change

Stark6000Apr 16, 20152 votes

i like to change my socks

DeloricVIApr 16, 20151 votes

People need to stop playing "Dark Horse" picks unless they can back up the fact that they are good and "No, ADC Lulu is totally a thing. I swear." Next thing you know, they get into lane and feed harder than a first-timer, and you just wasted 45 minutes to one hour of my life, as well as the lives of 4 other people. I myself hate this especially because I usually don't get to play that many games of league in a day because I have college classes to attend, a job to show up for, and projects to do outside of the class room. Then I play league for at least some entertainment value, but someone makes things less fun for me, turning was was a game into a stomping. And that's not fun. That's just plain frustrating.

Also, for those of you who say you shouldn't play league for entertainment, I'd invite you to rethink your definition of what a "game" is.

MidEvilKnight3kApr 16, 20153 votes

In other words, don't go full AP Tryndamere in the support role is not just an off meta pick, its stupid. Off meta picks need to have some thought put into how to build and how to play the role to succeed.

That being said, adc lulu wouldn't be that bad. I can't see it ever being quite as good as using a traditional adc, but I don't think it is much worse. Still, you probably shouldn't get mad about off meta picks when it was very likely just a bad game for the person (or they were just bad), rather then because of their champion and role choice.

If you think about why the meta is the way it is (mage needs levels -> solo lane, adc needs gold and could use help farming -> duo lane) doesn't really make sense for a lot of champions. Plenty of ADC's are not only self sufficient in solo lanes, but scale heavily on levels and can bully their opponents pretty hard. And some mages have weak early games and are very gold dependent.

DeloricVIApr 16, 20155 votes

My problem is when the person doesn't actually know what they're doing, and it's obvious. If you can't last until either jungler have finished their first clear without giving first blood to the enemy, something is wrong.

MidEvilKnight3kApr 17, 20151 votes

Which really has nothing to do with picking off meta. Playing the meta still does not mean you know what your doing. In fact, blindly following the meta without knowing why probably makes you less likely to know what you need to do. For example, the reason every team pretty much needs a marksmen is to be able to take down towers in a siege. The marksmen needs to know this in order to do what needs to be done.

DeloricVIApr 17, 20151 votes

Yes, it doesn't really matter if you're playing Xerath mid or tank Akali jungle, if you don't know what you're doing, you're wasting an hour of everyone on your team's life.

However. If you are going to break the meta, I feel that the responsibility of justifying your choice is also a factor. If you're doing something off-the-wall, you better know what you're doing, if not for all we know you're just trolling. I had someone who tried to carry as Nunu in ranked. Everyone has to trust him that he knows what he's doing, and when he fails so hard that we don't even make it to 20 minutes to surrender, there's bound to be a lot of skepticism, and he's probably going to get reported. Honestly, how would you feel if you've never heard of ADC lulu, doesn't see how the role connects with the champion, and she loses the game? Don't you think that Lulu was the problem in that case? You can't tell me if you were to see someone play something like... Sona adc or something, you wouldn't skeptical and most likely judge that person's playing a bit more harshly. Right?

MidEvilKnight3kApr 17, 20151 votes

I know most of the champion kits relatively well, so I can see how Lulu adc or Sona adc would work. At the same time I don't see a very big reason to try to use them over the more traditional adcs. I do get mad when someone just does something stupid in the name of being off-meta. My definition of stupid is like going AP Tryndamere. There is literally no reason to do it. Most ranged champions can work alright as adc. And if switching from AD to AP, or AP to AD works with the kit, then I am fine with it. For example, AP Varus can destroy tanks. Also, building champions normally but taking them to a different lane than usual can be very smart.

If someone takes an off-meta pick into a ranked game and builds it smart but does poorly, I may be annoyed that they did not practice it more, but I am not going to report for intentional feeding because of the champion choice.