It's Time To Nerf Garen

Shuyin178··3 votes·1,078 views

Garen Garen. He is suppose to be such an easy champion to play and to learn. You did your job right Riot. You made him so easy to play that all he requires is item 3071 Black Cleaver and pure tank items to murder everyone on the enemy team. While yes he is suppose to be an easy to pickup and learn champion, you also made it so anyone who has played the game for a few seasons can straight up destroy any other player. The only other juggernaut to have any form of gap closer besides Skarner Skarner is Garen Garen. Yes you did your job right making a super tanky dude who runs at your face and is super hard to kill, thematically that was executed great. On the gameplay end however, you failed hard. He can fight any champion in the game and more than likely win in any full item level 18 fight 1v1. It takes a minimum of 4 champions to kill him when he starts getting his items going, which he will kill 1 or 2 before he goes down. His passive (Perserverance) needs a longer cooldown at later stages of the game because item 3083 Warmong's Armor is a thing. I timed it, and he can go from 5% or less HP to full HP between this passive and item 3083 Warmong's Armor in about 15 or so seconds after he stops taking damage. His Q (Decisive Strike) needs less movement speed (either lower % or lower duration) because item 3742 Dead Man's Plate is in the game and is an item he builds. His W (Courage) is where more issues come in that causes a 4 person minimum to happen. The % damage reduction needs lowered (which is stronger now due to Bonds of Stone Keystone Mastery) or lowering/removing the extra Armor/MR he gets from its passive. Giving a super tank this much damage reduction (38% with the Keystone Mastery Bond of Stone) is ridiculous.
His E (Judgment) is where even more problems come into play because this is his main damage output, his only required damage output item. The numbers here need major lowering due to item 3071 Black Cleaver procting off of every single spin, causing each spin to deal more damage, and the fact that he gets more damage when attacking a Villain. Finally his R (Demacian Justice) were the Villain part comes into play. The idea of Demacian Justice becoming True Damage vs the villain makes a lot of sense and should remain, giving even more damage to Judgement however should probably be removed. It causes way to much damage output that you cannot re-tune on an already high damaging ability through 1 item (again item 3071 Black Cleaver). Overview of all of these issues, it's time to wake up Riot and do some overdue changes. Juggernauts should not have damage output to this scale while being this unkillable. You should either take the above things into account or change item 3071 Black Cleaver (which is the common theme here as his main item problem if you notice) to where it only procts once off of spells so that he can't just run into the enemy team, press E, and shread everyone as a result. His basic combo is Q >> E >> R with no room of variation because when he does this combo, any champion he uses it on will die without question with 1 exception. Only very tanky champions will be able to survive this 3 button 1 click combo that no tank champion should ever have, any non-tank champions just straight up die to it due to Q's silence preventing any escape spells of any kind. The people that designed the Juggernauts failed to look at everything that would in the end would cause problems, and so far Garen Garen has been ignored because "He is suppose to be an easy to use and easy to pickup champion if you are new to the game". Well guess what, people who are not new to the game know how to abuse mistakes you create when you fail to look at the actual details behind their in-game gameplay (skill leveling patterns, item builds, and mastery paths). The kit on its own is fine, the kit + items causes some problems, kit + items + new masteries makes it so you can no longer ignore his problems like they don't exist. I have used Garen Garen, I have fought Garen Garen, I am not a new player (I've been around since the beginning of season 3 around the time Quinn was released), and a lot of the community has been complaining about him whenever he is played due to every single thing I have posted here. I took my own observations and their observations into account when making this. Regardless of his W/L rate or his K/D/A that you look at, he is an issue and everyone knows it.

14 Comments

Critmaster Garen3 votes

you also dont seem to understand how % damage reduction and bond of stone works. % damage reduction stacks multiplicative, not additive. so he doesnt get 38% with his w. i only ever take it on garen in arams.

in an actual game your job is to carry by getting to the villain. chances are slim that you get any use out of the keystone. its a mastery for support tanks who tend to sit next to their marksmen instead of rushing into the fight. strength of ages or grasp of the undying are better on him.

{quoted}

Like I said, regardless of his W/L or K/D/A, he is a problem Riot needs to fix.

only in your opinion. objectively, hes not.

bigmilkjugs2 votes

your just mad cause u got rekt by garen. I just played garen jg against some scrubs and went 16/5/8 but my team is a little special and shit the bed has nothing to do with the champ just your teamwork and skill lvl.

Shuyin1781 votes

You went 16-5 as jungle Garen and you are saying he doesn't need changes, such a hypocrite. You are just another person abusing Riot's mistakes so that you don't need to use champions that require more than 3 keys and a mouse click.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

holy shit, its funny how you complain how cleaver interacts with his spin, when they literally designed the item to work this way. when they remade the cleaver into a core item for fighters, garen was one of the poster boys for the thing. next to pantheon and talon.

they deliberately made his spin interact well with cleaver due to the increased amount of spin ticks aswell.

and you really dont seem to understand the entire point of the juggernauts, when youre complaining that they shouldnt be tanky and deal large amounts of damage to their targets. when those are the 2 things theyre designed to do. theyre tanky carries, who are easy to kite, and dont have any strength beyond high defense and damage. no utility, no range, no strong engage.

theyre exactly working as intended this way. its not an issue with the champion, but how you chose to deal with his strength and weaknesses.

Shuyin1781 votes

Garen and Skarner are not easy to kite. They delt with Skarner's issues, they are dealing with Morde's, Darius will forever be Darius until he gets an actual rework, Garen however should not be able to do this much for such a basic champion. With Skarner at least you can destroy his shield to remove his speed boost, with Garen you just have to take it.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Garen and Skarner are not easy to kite. They delt with Skarner's issues, they are dealing with Morde's, Darius will forever be Darius until he gets an actual rework, Garen however should not be able to do this much for such a basic champion. With Skarner at least you can destroy his shield to remove his speed boost, with Garen you just have to take it.

or, you just slow him right after he activates his q? why is that so hard for so many people?

and there isnt actually much he does. what do you you mean simple champion? most champions in the game are as easy to play mechanically as garen.

do you want to tell me a flash tibbers is hard? or the ability chains of half the champions in this game are any more difficult? having a simple kit also makes counterplay easier as his actions become more predictable. which makes him just as hard to play as most other champs. his kit isnt mechanically difficult, but all his difficulty is in positioning and decision making instead.

his speed boost is one of the weakest mobility tools in the game. if you make a wrong step with garen, you have to ride it out or die. just cant just get out of a fight by jumping over a wall or kicking an enemy 2 screens away lee sin style. you cant engage into a fight like malphite or get a teamwide knockup on your ult like wukong.

all of garens power budget is in defense and damage for exactly that reason. thats how all of the juggernauts work. theyre slow moving walls of death. just like nasus who falls into the same group.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

hes at exactly 50% winrate right now. hes not going to receive nerfs any time soon. especially not to everything in his kit.

most of the time when people cant seem to handle garen, they either build improperly against him or dont rotate cc. you can already lock him out of a fight with 2 people if you coordinate yourselves. of course the lower you go in ranking, the less coordination there will be, and the easier it will be for garen to get in your face and whoop your ass.

Shuyin1781 votes

Like I said, regardless of his W/L or K/D/A, he is a problem Riot needs to fix.

GT Standard1 votes

I do agree that he probably needs a nerf, but I have played against some pretty bad Garen's. But he is really hard to play against.

Dominick Destine1 votes

Garen is fine. For once the Riot guys are completely correct ; Garen's weaknesses are so strong and exploitable that if you fail to exploit them, you deserve to lose.

No stun or slow. No gap closer. Atrocious base stats. Demacia.

Drehirth1 votes

lol.. OP is mad that he lost an aram... he built glass cannon cho and his team was all melee... but they did have cc... regardless.... aram...

warpenguin5551 votes

Better nerf the weakest juggernaut for no reason.

Bharhash1 votes

Jayce.

Gnar.

Jayce.

Fiora.

Jayce.

Kennen.

Jayce.

Elise.

Jayce.

Jayce.

Jayce.

Did I mention Jayce?

Danyoja1 votes

Garen isn't even good after 5.22 he can't use any of the Keystones very well and the nerf to Veteran Scar's makes his passive less effective. He's actually really weak, he could use some adjustments to be honest.

More from Gameplay

More by Shuyin178