Thornmail doesn't seem to be doing anything

Bultz·Mar 12, 2017·34 votes·2,209 views

Like I have 300 armor sometimes, fighting a champion like xin of jinx with a ton of speed and It really doesn't do all that much, and at times it doesn't hit them at all idk if that is a glitch

26 Comments

SalronMar 12, 201711 votes

"It really doesnt do all that much"

You know it really feels shitty when you open death recap and see that thornmail did 600 damage to you just for playing your champion properly

ExcusemeFellowsMar 13, 20175 votes

{quoted}

"It really doesnt do all that much"

You know it really feels shitty when you open death recap and see that thornmail did 600 damage to you just for playing your champion properly

Except that's what thornmail is designed to do.

AwoofMar 13, 20174 votes

I think the implication was that Thornmail's design sucks in general.

ExcusemeFellowsMar 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I think the implication was that Thornmail's design sucks in general.

Meh, fair enough.

Xela SyabMar 13, 20177 votes

if they even have 1 mr item, it negates everything that thornmail does. You're better off getting item 3068 .

Lord GalvatronMar 13, 20177 votes

Need 350+ armor to be as effective as before they nerfed it. It's extremely niche now and only useful against Atk speed AD crit comps and used primarily on Rammus.

SintamaMar 13, 20176 votes

Thornmail is useless if the enemy has at least 10% lifesteal.

Only Play DariusMar 13, 20174 votes

It's a noobtrap item don't buy it

TheFallenShawMar 12, 20173 votes

they prob have life steal, lifesteal and thorn mail fight against one another. bork, blood thirster, bloodrazor ect come into effect. and even spirit vision to a minor degree

BultzMar 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

they prob have life steal, lifesteal and thorn mail fight against one another. bork, blood thirster, bloodrazor ect come into effect. and even spirit vision to a minor degree

no this was early game and no one had lifesteal, misfortune ulted me, twitch attacked, and so did tryn and I didn't see any damage on any of them

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMar 12, 201727 votes

early game and you had 300 armor ?

JbelsMar 12, 20175 votes

{quoted}

no this was early game and no one had lifesteal, misfortune ulted me, twitch attacked, and so did tryn and I didn't see any damage on any of them

Thornmail only applies to auto attacks. It wouldn't reflect any of MF's damage back to her

TheFallenShawMar 12, 20173 votes

you also cant get 300 armor early game. Your in mid game bud.

Illâoi Evê SiônMar 12, 20176 votes

Rammus + Thornmail + W?

ShonjlMar 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

no this was early game and no one had lifesteal, misfortune ulted me, twitch attacked, and so did tryn and I didn't see any damage on any of them

Yeah you are lying, you aren't having 300 armor early game. Most champs lategame full build can't even reach 300 armor without having a dumb build other than Rammus or Malph.

MelledoneusMar 13, 201710 votes

I think I see the problem.

#BUILD SOME FUCKING HEALTH.

Dominick DestineMar 12, 20173 votes

Rammus Malphite are the only ones that can kind of get use out of thornmail.

Everyone else cannot.

crzymdscntstMar 13, 20173 votes

item 3814 comes with MR. Thornmail deals magic damage.

item 3156 is also weird in this regard.

Toss on some lifesteal and a last-whisper item suddenly... Yeah, pretty much useless.

crzymdscntstMar 13, 20172 votes

If Thornmail did Physical damage in return, I think it'd work better in a lot more cases it should and continue to not be great in cases it shouldn't.

MeritasMar 13, 20172 votes

With its current values it could safely deal True Damage .

Earl EulrichMar 13, 20172 votes

yea, got overnerfed for doing it´s job...now even vs a full ad comp it´s barly worth it anymore.

Dragonslayer RSMar 12, 20171 votes

Trash item, adc, master yi, trydemere can heal much more by AA than the reflect dmg.

Ivern and IreliaMar 13, 20171 votes

it does when you rush it as a first item on rammus

Acheron16Mar 13, 20171 votes

Unless you're building pure health items, Thornmail is always a bad choice unless they have 3 ADC's.

You're better off building Randuin's Omen, DMP or even Sunfire Cape

I also think that Thorn mail overall is trash, I still don't understand why nerfed the reflect damage so much...

KullprìtMar 13, 20171 votes

Why are people discussing thornmail as if it was ever designed to counteract lifesteal all on its own? Part of the point of thornmail is to punish builds that are heavy ad without lifesteal. The point of thornmail is to reduce damage while also reflecting some. Period. Not to beat lifesteal, not to make tanks able to solo everyone that builds ad.

If you are a tank you are supposed to be relying on damage dealers to kill enemies not your 300 armor build thornmail.

ProfDrDeathMar 13, 20171 votes

Thornmail is a counter to Lifesteal in the sense that it denies Lifesteal in two ways:

First, it is a big Armor item. As the Lifesteal-based health regen is calculated with the damage dealt after resistances, getting a lot of Armor reduces the amount a carry can Lifesteal off of you.

Second, it deals damage based on your Armor and a part of the enemy's damage before resistances are applied.

Both mechanisms combined make it a very good item at counteracting Lifesteal.

Thornmail's current issue is that countering Lifesteal is literally all it does. It doesn't have a place in most builds, as it is not easily worth the item slot, especially since the current crop of ADCs/physical damage dealers in general are employing a mix of abilities and auto-attacks - and Thornmail does virtually nothing against ability users.

If Riot really wanted the item to be a less niche purchase, it would need a better build path and a final cost of about 3k. At that price point, it could bring something beyond pure Armor - like, for example, building out of Raptor Cloak and giving some HP regen.