Hashinshin complains that Hourglass + Protobelt gives 20% CDR, meanwhile Black Cleaver and Trinity..

taleofsonata·Mar 31, 2019·5 votes·2,502 views

Gives 40% CDR, 20% each. Meaning you can run transcendence and benefit from overcapping CDR. Which in the end becomes way more beneficial.

60 Comments

Anivia HentaiMar 31, 201910 votes

Does anyone actually care about what Hashinshin has to say? [sg-miss-fortune]

Frosted TipsMar 31, 20197 votes

I'm not trying to say he is right, but you also have to remember that Hourglass and Proto have very strong actives.

jocomotionMar 31, 20196 votes

item 3071 item 3025 item 3078 item 3161 All Fighter items that give 20% CDR

item 3285 item 3030 item 3003 all give 20% CDR individually, but it’s cut in half when stacked

item 3110 is the only tank item to give 20% CDR

item 3508 is the only ADC item to give 20% CDR

Supports, surprisingly have no 20% CDR items (unless I missed something)

Don’t listen to hash about everything, he’s pretty biased

Frosted TipsMar 31, 20193 votes

I mean iceborn is more of a tank item then a fighter item. It atleast should be under both.

BeersteinMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

All Fighter items that give 20% CDR

all give 20% CDR individually, but it’s cut in half when stacked

is the only tank item to give 20% CDR

is the only ADC item to give 20% CDR

Supports, surprisingly have no 20% CDR items (unless I missed something)

Don’t listen to hash about everything, he’s pretty biased

I know Black Cleaver isn't built on all the traditional ADCs but it's still an ADC item. I mean anyone that really WANTS the CDR on an adc for whatever reason can get it right there, and it's not in any way bad for them.

Sir SaltarinMar 31, 20191 votes

MissFortune

HP CrookshanksMar 31, 20191 votes

Lucian is a fighter

LovelleMar 31, 20194 votes

{quoted}

All Fighter items that give 20% CDR

all give 20% CDR individually, but it’s cut in half when stacked

is the only tank item to give 20% CDR

is the only ADC item to give 20% CDR

Supports, surprisingly have no 20% CDR items (unless I missed something)

Don’t listen to hash about everything, he’s pretty biased

What fighter builds iceborne anymore?

FaustavianMar 31, 20192 votes

cries in

Moody PMar 31, 20195 votes

difference is fighter kits aren't half as good as mage kits are (universally true except for like J4) so they compensate with superior numbers

jocomotionApr 1, 20191 votes

It’s almost like MAGES are made to have superior spells or something.

LovelleMar 31, 20194 votes

Trinity is also one of the most expensive items in the game, which only a few AD champions can prioritize without making sacrifices.

Daddy AntsMar 31, 20194 votes

Protobelt 2500 Hourglass 2900

Trinity Force 3733 Black Cleaver 3000

BIG DIFFERENCE

taleofsonataMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Protobelt 2500 Hourglass 2900

Trinity Force 3733 Black Cleaver 3000

BIG DIFFERENCE

Protobelt and hourglass falls off late game hard,

Protobelt damage is lower and using it to engage in teamfights is riskier, Hourglass late game is only going to delay your death and not save you most of the time,

AirKingNeoMar 31, 20194 votes

hourglass doesn't fall off late game

ThefrostyvikingMar 31, 20191 votes

Well it doesnt fall off but the result of using it is often highly team based, but i will admit that its good for stopping enemeis from diving into your team 1v3+ and killing you instantly at least.

Sir SaltarinMar 31, 20192 votes

Yes (if you play like a monkey)

BeersteinMar 31, 20193 votes

Trinity is like an overall champion buff but is too spread out in what it does to be super OP. Its extremely high cost makes it a fair value item. Same as Frozen Mallet for example. Very expensive for 1 slot, but if you can afford it, why not? A lot of the cost is going into that slow.

For Trinity there's a lot of everything but a ton of nothing. So yeah, the CDR is nice, but look at all the other stats and how much gold you put in for them.

FragglerocMar 31, 20193 votes

oh he has a complaint again? The last time he complained, he wiped out an entire Tank class. And we got the overpowered Conqueror.

BigFBearMar 31, 20193 votes

Hashishin is a dumb shit, so what?

AirKingNeoMar 31, 20193 votes

Bruisers never take Transcendence.

Protobelt is a cheap and inefficient item. However, Hourglass literally comes with the best active in the game, at a low cost, and with good stats.

taleofsonataMar 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Bruisers never take Transcendence.

Protobelt is a cheap and inefficient item. However, Hourglass literally comes with the best active in the game, at a low cost, and with good stats.

Good stats? Last time I got ulted by Zed, the death recap showed true damage.

boricCentaur1Mar 31, 20191 votes

75 ap a good amount of ap, 10 cdr also good, 45 armor is ok, so what stat is low there please tell me?

Also it is impossible for zed to do true damage if you have zhonya's that is a FACT, zhonya's stops all of the flat pen zed buys since he doesn't build all 3 lethality items only two meaning he can only reduce your armor by a % so it is impossible to hit 0.

taleofsonataMar 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

75 ap a good amount of ap, 10 cdr also good, 45 armor is ok, so what stat is low there please tell me?

Also it is impossible for zed to do true damage if you have zhonya's that is a FACT, zhonya's stops all of the flat pen zed buys since he doesn't build all 3 lethality items only two meaning he can only reduce your armor by a % so it is impossible to hit 0.

75 AP is never 100% effective on a mage, their abilities are around 20%-75% Max on most of them.

boricCentaur1Apr 1, 20191 votes

Going by your logic if it give 100 ap it would not be good. Most mages make good use out of 75 ap. Like most items give around 75 ap so yeah again its a good amount of ap.

Sir SaltarinMar 31, 20191 votes

Yes, Zhonyas is broken.

And there's nothing wrong about it, every class needs some broken items to compete with the others, but the problem is when you guys think that Zhonyas is a bad item or something like that.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20192 votes

Meanwhile spear of shojin

Frosted TipsMar 31, 20195 votes

Is a terrible item only Viable on like 3 champions and not even mandatory on any of them. It is unhealthy and should be removed, but it is a pretty terrible item.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

Warwick can use it on certain comps.

Frosted TipsMar 31, 20192 votes

Why? I just don't see how it would ever be a better option than practically any other item I see him build against any comp.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20192 votes

Spear is good on him vs fighting comps due to more bite howls after ult. Not every item is made to be pigeonholed.

Frosted TipsMar 31, 20191 votes

Still don't see why it would be better than his other choices. Unless his own team has an excessively terrible comp he would never want this over his other options. It is just far to expensive fo the little it offers to him.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

I play warwick a lot I know when it's needed. There are very specific conditions for it to be used.

Frosted TipsMar 31, 20191 votes

Playing a champion a lot does not mean that you play the champion correctly or know what is most optimal. I just don't see any situation that would ever pop up in 1000 games that would ever make that item a part of your 6 items.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

If you get stuck building the same items over and over again though even if it's meta in some games it is a inferior build. Which calls for situational not meta items in that match only. Example enemy grabs grevious wounds so I grab hp/damage to cushion myself then go X resist vs it afterword. Don't depend on your sustain to win those matchup use your stats never assume your sustain is enough. Burst plus grabbing early hp matters there. Later you can build some tankness

Frosted TipsMar 31, 20191 votes

I never said build the same 6 items every game. There are a ton of builds WW could go, but none of the good ones I could ever see him have Spear in.

xDogMeatxMar 31, 20191 votes

Idk every item has a place for a specific game I don't mean go support heal power warwick either. I mean it's meant to be a dueling item not a automatic stat win .

AirKingNeoMar 31, 20192 votes

meanwhile only a problem on riven

IAmTheLegoMar 31, 20192 votes

Hourglass is the only defensive tool for the mage class that it doesn't even make the champion stronger. It just makes the champion survive better/longer. Doesn't make them more dangerous or threatening (unless allies are nearby).

Protobelt is an item that can give immobile mage champions a little bit of mobility.

Whatever Hashinshin says, don't listen to him. He may make good points about certain things, but he's biased to the point that he's just diamond level in mechanics, but with knowledge equal to someone who recently downloaded League.

There's a reason why most to all don't agree that hash should be hired as the balance team. Not even as Riot's janitor for that matter.

BeersteinMar 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Hourglass is the only defensive tool for the mage class that it doesn't even make the champion stronger. It just makes the champion survive better/longer. Doesn't make them more dangerous or threatening (unless allies are nearby).

Protobelt is an item that can give immobile mage champions a little bit of mobility.

Whatever Hashinshin says, don't listen to him. He may make good points about certain things, but he's biased to the point that he's just diamond level in mechanics, but with knowledge equal to someone who recently downloaded League.

There's a reason why most to all don't agree that hash should be hired as the balance team. Not even as Riot's janitor for that matter.

"Protobelt is an item that can give immobile mage champions a little bit of mobility."

So another defensive tool?

IAmTheLegoMar 31, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"Protobelt is an item that can give immobile mage champions a little bit of mobility."

So another defensive tool?

Eh i don't think so. It just makes you dash forward but cannot perform wall jumps. It's also a damage item though.

MankeyMadnessMar 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

"Protobelt is an item that can give immobile mage champions a little bit of mobility."

So another defensive tool?

... except primarily offensive but yeah ok. That 350 range dash with a 0.25 second cast time is going to dodge so many skillshots and escape pursuit over the walls it cant go through. For sure.

taleofsonataMar 31, 20192 votes

{quoted}

... except primarily offensive but yeah ok. That 350 range dash with a 0.25 second cast time is going to dodge so many skillshots and escape pursuit over the walls it cant go through. For sure.

One of the purpose commonly used with Protobelt is literally waveclear, it is rarely used for engages and escapes since its on a 45sec cooldown. MEANWHILE TIAMAT can do the same thing on a much lower cooldown, minus the dash, cost only 1350gold and a passive which helps bruiser outpush alot of champions.

Shiroe OkazakiMar 31, 20191 votes

item 3001 item 3102
Pretty much any health item they build because that's survivability as well. item 3040
From what I've seen. Nearly everyone except for mage players hate zhonyas and stop watch because the active is insanely strong. Banshees has the same stats almost as zhonya except with MR. Seraphs gives a massive shield. Rylais is also kind of underused. 90 ap 300 HP.

IAmTheLegoMar 31, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d7eEdpAk,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-03-31T20:02:34.477+0000)

Pretty much any health item they build because that's survivability as well.
From what I've seen. Nearly everyone except for mage players hate zhonyas and stop watch because the active is insanely strong. Banshees has the same stats almost as zhonya except with MR. Seraphs gives a massive shield. Rylais is also kind of underused. 90 ap 300 HP.

Oh please, it may be a strong active item, but it doesn't make the champion more threatening compared to a Rabadon's Deathcap.

And Stopwatch is available on GA and Stoneplate. Seraphs is useful for its shield but also doesn't make the champion more threatening, even Banshees which can be removed by pretty much anything, even a slowing ability can remove it. Rylais is best used if you want to be beefy or if the champion doesn't have any slows which quite frankly many mages have slows these days. But i tend to buy when i want to have alot of HP.

Zhonya isn't an unhealthy item. If that item is very toxic, then might as well consider GA too since when the champion dies, they revive with a decent amount of HP while Zhonya will make pop out with same amount.

Shiroe OkazakiMar 31, 20191 votes

Maybe just maybe. If you used your head and stopped thinking in (OH THIS DOESN"T HAVE THE BEST DAMAGE STATS AS WELL SO ITS A BAD ITEM) and actually realise. Seraphs gives over 100 ap stacked. you'll have no mana problems ever. a massive shield. CDR. and i said ANY hp ap item that mages use. People complained about ezreal being op because of his tanky blue build. Look at mages and what they build. Heres a common build i see on most mages. item 3285 > item 3157 > item 3165 item 3089 item 3020 > item 3135 . For a more tanky high damage build i see champs like cassio or kass do. item 3040 > > theres more situational there like cass would have a rylais and a liandrys cause that combo is broken beyond compare for those who can use it properly. And for GA and stone plate. that point. WE ONLY GET ONE USE OF IT and even if we can take it too. it doesn't all of a sudden make it healthy. The strongest and tankiest biulds ive seen for mages are builds like item 3285 item 3040 item 3165 item 3020 item 3089 item 3151 Mages have everything handed to them pretty much. most runes work on them as well as they have higher ratios and base damages.

IAmTheLegoApr 1, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shiroe Okazaki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d7eEdpAk,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2019-03-31T23:40:00.719+0000)

Maybe just maybe. If you used your head and stopped thinking in (OH THIS DOESN"T HAVE THE BEST DAMAGE STATS AS WELL SO ITS A BAD ITEM) and actually realise. Seraphs gives over 100 ap stacked. you'll have no mana problems ever. a massive shield. CDR. and i said ANY hp ap item that mages use. People complained about ezreal being op because of his tanky blue build. Look at mages and what they build. Heres a common build i see on most mages. > > > . For a more tanky high damage build i see champs like cassio or kass do. > > theres more situational there like cass would have a rylais and a liandrys cause that combo is broken beyond compare for those who can use it properly. And for GA and stone plate. that point. WE ONLY GET ONE USE OF IT and even if we can take it too. it doesn't all of a sudden make it healthy. The strongest and tankiest biulds ive seen for mages are builds like Mages have everything handed to them pretty much. most runes work on them as well as they have higher ratios and base damages.

I never said Zhonya is a bad item...Maybe just maybe don't shove in words I didn't even say.

I've seen idiots be like "Zhonya is toxic! Delete! It's zero skill!" While there items like GA and even edge of night which is a better version of Banshee's.

So spare me the "mages are toxic" bullshit or whatever point you're getting at.

Shiroe OkazakiMar 31, 20192 votes

Bruisers don't get both. They get one or the other. A common build would be triforce or black cleaver into steraks and titanic Hydra. Full tank with it. They all get merc treads or ninja tabi. Proto belt is nearly HALF the price of triforce as well. Zhonya hourglass is 300 gold more (that one I'm not so sure of. 2900 gold I think) champs like Darius and Garen who build black cleaver normally go into steraks after. Then full tank. If I'm wrong tell me. But I hardly ever see anyone go both black cleaver and triforce. A poppy build I like v a lot of tanks is black cleaver into frozen gauntlet for the sheen proc working well on her. But that's a different thing.