Riot, you need to fix Lee Sin.

Astôlfo·Apr 25, 2016·3 votes·527 views

He's such a terrible champion/jungler and -

Oh wait, did you expect more dumb Lee Sin QQ? Sorry to disappoint. [slayer-jinx-wink]

EDIT: Look at all the QQer downvotes streaming in, it's beautiful.

6 Comments

AmarajahApr 25, 20162 votes

The problem is being fed on lee means nothing because you can't get to your target if the enemy team is grouped, and he's not quite tanky enough to pull off a longer combo with autos in teamfights, only skirmishes. You absolutely have to get your team fed to win as Lee Sin, certainly (not always possible if your team is bad at finishing kills or has to run to avoid dying).

Warrior is enough to kill whoever as long as you approach it right though, with hexdrinker/maw really being the only other offensive item needed, MAAYBE black cleaver later on

Randuin's and Mercs both received buffs recently though so they are both pretty needed to build as they compliment his playstyle a lot (needing to have mobility advantage on targets, thru slow and less cc duration on himself)

AmarajahApr 25, 20161 votes

There's actually a bug with lee sin where if you follow someone who traveled especially far with your resonating strike (since it traces enemies location if they use blinks/dashes), that your character bugs out and stands in place for a bit leaving you pretty vulnerable.

AstôlfoApr 25, 20161 votes

Wow, didn't know that. The more you know :P

~~"BUT OF COURSE THAT CAN'T BE TRUE LEE SIN IS INVINCIBLE 100-0 SUPER TANKY ASSASSIN CARRY WITH 29381923 ABILITIES"~~

Gunslinger744Apr 25, 20161 votes

I think Lee Sin just has too many options for the reward he gets out of them. I like playing him, but playing against him just sucks.

For example, his Q. If he lands his Q he will stick to you like a fly to a turd for a few seconds with his E, often this sticking power is enough for his Q to come back off cooldown before you can make any meaningful distance from him, allowing him to easily hit it again.

His 500 base damage nuke + large knockback isn't an issue on its own, but again with the options he gets it becomes an almost unavoidable attack. He can Q to you and knock you into your team, he can wardhop to you, Q you, knock you into his team and follow up with Resonating Strike to be back behind his tank line or be the tank line again depending on his build, as both tank Lee Sin and assassin Lee Sin are viable builds.

He can Q into your team and 5 man Cripple, and THEN knock an enemy away. He can bypass the tank line completely with a wardhop and take out a carry. He can flank entire teams by Qing a jungle camp. I could go on for a bit longer but I think I've made my point.

AstôlfoApr 25, 20161 votes

He has a strong early, which he relies on, because otherwise he falls off in late. Leaping into a team is suicide unless he can W back out, meaning, he's not going to use his W to go into the middle of a team/behind a team to hit their carry unless he feels like dying with them. His Q is a skillshot, and both his Q/W have fairly obvious ranges meaning it's fairly easy to predict when he'd want to Q/W someone/somewheree (i.e.; low health target he could execute with help of his Q).

He also won't cast his abilities that ridiculously fast unless he's scripting, meaning, most players won't be able to achieve something that fast. That's something that would come after extensive practice/learning to time ( or just scripting, but that's against the rules :P ). I think it's fair someone with that level of experience could achieve at least that.

Yet, even with the strong early, he still falls off hard late because he's not that useful in a teamfight unless the enemy ADC/squishy is an idiot who wandered out right into where the Lee would want (eg; away from his team with or without low health), etc. He has no reliable peel outside of his ult, and his mobility's not going to mean much if all he can really do is just escape because he can't actually be that useful in a teamfight usually. Yes, his ult has decent damage + a good knockback, but the range on it is short, meaning unless he was already there within melee/AA range anyways, he'd either have to W or Q to where you were (and/or Flash). Unless his target is alone, that means he's going to have to W out if he wants any chance of surviving. Which means, his Q isn't really going to help, nor will he be able to kick the target back into his team unless he flashes behind them. Yes, he could Q them first and then try to follow up on it, but the Q doesn't go through minions or other teammates, meaning, as an ADC, you really shouldn't be in the front line in the first place in general, which would also stop him from easily getting to you.

Warding or having people who would actually pay attention would help with the flanking issue, and again, having an actually coherent team that would maybe, I dunno, actually try to CC/damage/do something about the Lee Sin that's obviously coming at them/was missing for a while and might be coming around to try and assassinate their squishy carry?

Q -> leap -> E, E again for slow -> W out is fine and dandy, but like I said above, his kick's not really going to be that helpful unless he's willing to most likely die with the one he's trying to assassinate or he uses Flash on them, because W is his only other escape in a teamfight. If the ADC was wandering around by themselves/maybe one other teammember, that's entirely their own fault. They're a squishy damage dealing carry, wandering off like that would make themselves a prime target for just about anyone who could kill them. Also, not to mention multiple other champs have better CC that wouldn't be anywhere near as costly or risky as what Lee does.

And no, full tank Lee does not do that much damage. Full glass cannon Lee will just break and die. The most common is bruiser Lee, which is a partway between the two. Meaning, there's not as much damage, nor is there as much tank.