Warrior Enchant is still just a stat stick, please consider trading some stats for a real passive

DiveAlive·Jun 17, 2016·57 votes·3,024 views

The stats are actually quite high currently so I think with a proper passive they could be lowered to about 40 AD, and considering the other 3 JG items have no CDR I really dont think Warrior needs it, but perhaps it could stay depending.

So now that the stats have theoretically been lowered, lets talk a passive

The first thing that comes to my mind is Active, but perhaps with a little less bonus movement and attack speed(similar to runic echos vs Ludens)

The other option I thought of would be having it build from but without the lifesteal and less AD when completed into Warrior(40 AD as suggested)

I think the latter idea is probably the best idea but perhaps someone can suggest something even better.

45 Comments

EndlessSorcererJun 17, 201628 votes

While the other jungle items have something extra included with them, that is often due to necessity.

Cinderhulk requires the Immolate passive because tanks previously had low clear times, leaving them gold-starved in the jungle. They would often fall behind more damage-oriented champions in levels and items, letting the damage-oriented champions become more durable too.
Runic Echoes requires the Echo passive to help AP champions sustain their mana while clearing. Most of them are rather ability dependent and they would often run out of mana during a jungle clear, reducing their ability to farm and leading to them falling behind.
Bloodrazor requires the percentage-health damage passive because otherwise, no one would every buy it. This passive makes it work with champions who synergize with on-hit effects (which are the only ones who would really value raw attack speed early-game).

Warrior doesn't have any additional effects, but it doesn't really need them. AD champions generally clear the jungle efficiently because their autoattacks are a consistent source of damage, so they don't really need any assistance on that front.

While it is boring as a stat-stick, there is no pressing need to change it since it currently functions quite well in its role.

Voluug13Jun 17, 20162 votes

Not to mention most prominent Warrior users are not on even middlepack of kit power. Most are way way above and it took some serious nerfing for them to NOT be extremely overdominant picks.

Papa SlothyJun 18, 20161 votes

if graves youmuus active from warrior

o god the invades, u can't run

VoraciousXJun 18, 20161 votes

I kinda think a tiamat on warrior would be nice for some champions like Shaco, since a lot of Shacos don't even build warrior.

SpecterVonBarenJun 18, 20162 votes

Not to mention every other time the AD jungle item has had an interesting passive Ezreal has gotten it nerfed.

Reaper ReviewJun 17, 201614 votes

It can't have an active because Tracker's Knife exists, and there's not much other design space you can easily use for an AD jungle item without giving it another stat besides AD + either CDR or Armor Pen.

Tiamat can't be used either because that would force it to be melee only.

Valhalla RisingJun 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Reaper Review,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d77ueEEZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-06-17T14:37:41.604+0000)

It can't have an active because Tracker's Knife exists, and there's not much other design space you can easily use for an AD jungle item without giving it another stat besides AD + either CDR or Armor Pen.

Tiamat can't be used either because that would force it to be melee only.

That's a shame. Maybe a dead mans plate passive instead?

LGBTQ GamerJun 17, 20161 votes

Thats Still Mele only item 3742

Zephyrous XJun 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Thats Still Mele only

No it isnt lol

LGBTQ GamerJun 25, 20161 votes

item 3742 IT SAYS IT RIGHT AT THE END OF THE PASSIVE (MELE ONLY) honestly people need to read the entire thing if they are gonna say its not Limitations On ranged champions, CRUSHING BLOW cannot deal damage, nor Slow slow. However, Momentum will still discharge on on-hit. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Man's_Plate

Zephyrous XJun 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

IT SAYS IT RIGHT AT THE END OF THE PASSIVE (MELE ONLY) honestly people need to read the entire thing if they are gonna say its not Limitations On ranged champions, CRUSHING BLOW cannot deal damage, nor Slow slow. However, Momentum will still discharge on on-hit. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Man's_Plate

it still gives movement speed and is purchasdable which was my fucking point, and how many ranged junglers are there that are AD: just Kindred 1

PaugusterJun 27, 20161 votes

Some of us like to Draven jungle... doesn't mean you need to box us out man.

The Yetii RiderJun 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sun Rhapsody,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d77ueEEZ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-06-17T15:00:23.167+0000)

That's a shame. Maybe a dead mans plate passive instead?

Stalker's Blade already lets you steal MS. We don't need to give Warrior jungles additional mobility on top of that.

ArakadiaJun 17, 20161 votes

Tracker's Knife could be activated through another key.

MarshbouyJun 17, 20169 votes

It totally is a boring stat stick. I agree with this fully

chipndip1Jun 17, 20169 votes

Can we not just throw random shit on a totally fine enchant just for the sake of? The reason why Warrior is what it is now is because the cdr and the 60 ad is pretty much what any ad caster wants: raw AD and cdr.

TNHA BaritoneJun 17, 20162 votes

true

NeameanJun 18, 20161 votes

But everything need a gimmick.

GrReaper96Jun 17, 20168 votes

Just sell it for item 3812 late game same stats better passive

MrBuffingtonJun 17, 20161 votes

Why not give it a lesser item 3812 passive, like how item 1414 has a lesser item 3285 passive?

DehitayJun 17, 20164 votes

To be honest, I think the stats are worth more than most passives to those who use it. Unless you're going to add some kind of sword of the occult passive.

ArakadiaJun 17, 20161 votes

That would be pretty cool, the sword of the occult was cool. It also fits because junglers are all over the place. Maybe you can get stacks from Dragon and Baron too.

Lady HammerlockJun 17, 20164 votes

ummmmm,i get that its boring but it kinda means that it'll never really break the game

Sire HippingtonJun 17, 20163 votes

While i agree that it beeing a pure stat stick is boring, throwing in an active is not really a viable solution. item 1408 , How would you have wards and an active on the same item?

Maybe tiamats passive and every 10 sec, your next AA procs the crescend active. Or a small duskblade. Or the dot that they had on pbe once-

gsaiJun 17, 20163 votes

If you going to give it a lesser passive like the other items it would probably be black cleaver all things considered.

NineTailedMysticJun 17, 20161 votes

They already removed the Flat Pen from it before, I don't see why they'd give it %pen instead.

DreadlocksJun 17, 20162 votes

I don't think it should have an active, but I agree something could be done to make it more interesting. And plz don't remove my loved cdr :(

The LovelessJun 17, 20162 votes

It's fine. Leave it be.

ThePartyLeaderJun 17, 20161 votes

Bf sword and needlessly humongous stick is literally a stat stick. Rito change they should have passives and actives.

Remlap1223Jun 17, 20161 votes

Get rid of the penetration and give it the old Elder Lizard passive.

LGBTQ GamerJun 17, 20164 votes

It doesn't have any form of pen what so ever

EndlessSorcererJun 17, 20166 votes

We're already half-way there!

Good work everyone. Congratulations all around.

MLDzXnRRRJun 17, 20161 votes

They removed the armor pen, because it was too strong on VI...

ArakadiaJun 17, 20161 votes

Sword of the Occult passive with Dragon and Baron also giving stacks?

Battlecast SonaJun 17, 20161 votes

This. A lot of Warrior junglers don't even bother making it and just rush items since the exp changes on jungle items mean you get the same exp for just having machete/talisman (you don't actually need the full jungle item anymore). This definitely speaks to a lack of attractive options for the AD Caster/Assassin/etc style of gameplay (since Warrior is the only jungle item that doesn't give some sort of specific jungle effectiveness, like increased clear speeds with cinderhulk and mana return on luden's.)

MortalButtJun 18, 20161 votes

I don't know of any ad junglers that skip warrior except maybe shaco, warrior is an insanely efficient item and doesn't need any changes.

TNHA BaritoneJun 17, 20161 votes

I bet they'd it give it a item 3147 version

Oakleaf RangerJun 18, 20161 votes

I made a post about something similar to this except I wanted cinderhulk changed. Warrior could also use a change even if its "unique" passive is just CDR. Runic helps against the jg and enemy in a indirect way that isn't raw damage(not counting luden passive). That's what I feel cinderhulk and warrior need that give them a similar effect and feel.

Troll for TrumpJun 18, 20161 votes

Maybe another sheen type effect?

Bladerunner7777Jun 18, 20161 votes

"Let's screw up the meta some more"

MonkeyMadnessJun 18, 20161 votes

I prefer the Tiamat > warrior build path (this is actually something I posted in the PBE forums a long time ago when the season 6 jungle changes were being tested there). A large portion of warrior junglers end up building a hydra item eventually (or at least definitely consider while prioritizing other items). Also I very much agree that building warrior is incredibly lackluster, as it is purely a stat boost. Riot even said that they were trying to make the jungle items feel more strategic, but left warrior the way it was because the flat armor pen actually did give it a fairly unique niche. But then they removed the armor pen stat and left the rest pretty much as is. The only issue with having a Tiamat build into warrior is that they would need to be careful about balancing the active, as no other jungle item has a combat active, so it might cause ad/assassin junglers to become too favorable.

As for the youmuu's active on a jungle item, that scares me a lot. It's hard enough to deal with youmuu's assassins that roam from mid, imagine if the jungler was able to pick up the same active EVEN EARLIER. The ganks would be unreal. They could move around the map at hecarim-esque speeds and still pack a huge punch during those early ganks. Youmuu's is also a very pro-assassin item that really doesn't benefit the more bruiser type ad junglers.

IncognonymousJun 18, 20161 votes

I don't understand what was wrong with old Lizard. The passive burn was really cool.

EvolvedPikJun 18, 20161 votes

I feel like if i can build warrior i can go one of the other enchantments or ghostblade instead because enchants like bloodrazor actually feel pretty satisfying when given to champions such as shaco or nocturne. Ghostblade/Bloodrazor offers them a consistent source of dps and full damage potential unlike warrior, where you are unlikey to cast your abilities twice in a gank despite the 10% cdr.

Wild GeeseJun 18, 20161 votes

One thing I don't get is when I ask high mmr players why they don't sell warrior for a better item later (Like there's at least a dozen better ad items late game), they say no way.

Is the enhanced smite really that powerful? So I guess you're stuck with it?...