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Delaying ADC damage is only going to cause more issues.

Knoyle·10/23/2017, 6:45:55 PM·5 votes·658 views

So when Assassins got damage delayed they become somewhat unreliable. Given that any adc with a has the ability to out sustain the burst because of the delay which caused and basically anything that can slap a shield on allies to become even more popular because it wasn't even a question of whether they could survive the burst at that point. With this I've seen some people suggest if Assassins have to have huge delays (rip ) why shouldn't ADCs. A marksman's primary damage/dps is most commonly gated by their attack speed which if you are something like you get in spades by the press of a button and because a marksman is commonly glass cannon they tend to shove a out a ton of it in a matter of seconds. Supposedly an assassin should make short work of them but because of the combination of delayed burst, meta supports/support items they struggle to even do that. However, if we delay the damage of Marksmen as well then what happens next is

and basically anything else that likes to plow through your formation like it's prom night.

TL;DR Support itemization needs to be more than just slapping the number keys and giving your ADC 2x their health in shields so Assassins can do their jobs again.

13 Comments

ChargeItDownMid10/23/2017, 6:50:29 PM10 votes

[deleted]

holystack10/23/2017, 9:01:01 PM4 votes

Honestly, I just don't understand why adcs do as much damage in melee range as when they're at their maximum range... kiting should be CORE to your class. It shouldn't be an option. If that Juggernaut is in your face, your support or your tank should have to peel for you and you should be forced to orbwalk in order to be efficient. If you, your support and even your tank is unable to keep that Darius off you, why should you be rewarded with maximum damage output?

I'm well aware such a drastic change would make or break adcs, but melee carries struggle hard enough in teamfights, they shouldn't just freaking die even when the adc felt it was better to literally stand still and AA instead of trying to kite... as a Marksman.

At this point, I think the marksman role has to find it's own niche. Melees do no damage at range? Make ranged champions do no damage at melee range. In compensation, slows could have a lower cap, or adcs could have higher movement speed or longer range, idk. Cement their role as the "reliant" team member beyond just requiring shields. Make them require to be peeled as well by their support and team. Melee carries could finally shine and maybe even have their own place bot lane in specific comps...

Just try it out. If it turns out to be too oppressive or too shitty then it can be reverted. But considering the underwhelming season we've had so far, I don't think anything can top it. So...

ModWulf Helhammer10/23/2017, 7:02:28 PM3 votes

This is something that I've said from the beginning: The problem isn't ADCs as a whole (yes some of them do have problems. I'm looking at you mr smelly rat), it's the perfect storm of:

Hypertanks are super popular and pack a ton of defense with a good amount of damage to capably handle most ADCs,
In order to defeat those hypertanks, you need hypercarries (Trist, Kog, Twitch, etc), however they can still be bursted down pretty easily, so the best course of action is to protect and buff them up in order to survive (as whichever team's DPS survives usually wins the fight),
Enchanter items were buffed up to be more rewarding and powerful during midseason and after, allowing comps like Jugger-Maw and similar to make a comeback,
Assassins needed more counterplay, which they got. However, they got it the same time frame in which hypercarries had a resurgence and enchanter peeling supports got much stronger.

So all this leads to an all the cases feeding off of themselves. You can't not pick a hypercarry, because then the enemy tank line will bowl over you. You can't not pick an enchanter, because then the enemy team has the buffs that you don't. And you can't not pick a hypertank, because then you won't have the front line to threaten the enemy hypercarry, and they'll mop up the fight.

IMO (which people can be free to disagree with. I may hold some bias in this matter), I believe that the proper way to fix this mess would be to tone down hypertanks (not gut them), and tone down enchanters and their items (IF the current rebalance haven't already done so. Ardent is getting a pretty huge nerf this coming patch). Finally, tone down the outlying hypercarries (namely Twitch, as Kog only succeeds from his team, so nerfing down defense team comps will make him more easy to handle, and Trist hasn't been touched this entire time, she's just a top pick because she's safe. Change the meta, she'll fall back down), and bring back lane bully ADCs and supports (as much as I hate playing against Zyras and Brands)

Paroe10/23/2017, 6:59:32 PM3 votes

@thread

Unlike assassins, marksman will ALWAYS be viable because the main role of marksmen in most mobas is that of a siege; Attack Damage and Attack Speed.

ZT Xperimentor10/23/2017, 9:07:18 PM2 votes

So? It'd be nice to have more than a month without them being required. They're the only class that's repeatedly given means to overcome their weaknesses.

Mordepool10/23/2017, 11:17:24 PM2 votes

Honestly Marksmen should have an Attack speed wind up period per single target in order to access thier full attack speed vs that Champion they should have to hit said Champion 3 times

Normally they have 50% attackspeed vs champions After 1st attack 70% 2nd 85% 3rd 100%

That's the only way I can think of too Still allow Marksman to have the insane MS/ /Damage/Lifesteal that they have.

While having an actual Trade off for The safety they enjoy so well

Metleon10/23/2017, 6:55:55 PM1 votes

On hit attackers' damage might be getting delayed with the new runes. Lethal tempo takes 1.5 seconds to kick in. Not sure how that'll affect numbers, though.