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Fact Check: Around 11% of the global player base is really pissed at Riot over DQ

Hyrum Graff··14 votes·2,188 views
http://i.imgur.com/7wQ0tx0.png

Cactopus, a Rioter who writes reveals, patch notes, etc (ie, a professional memer), said this on reddit. (Source). Also including the full text, and a screenshot just in case he edits it later.

This game has steadily grown for seven years, so I feel unqualified to say "never," but the most honest answer I can give you is that no, it's not coming back.

It would be one thing if the feedback that we got from most players was that they don't like Dynamic Queue, but that's not what we're seeing. It's a segment of about 11% of the global player base that's really pissed at us because of the switch. It would also be another thing if people were quitting League because of dynamic queue, but our monthly active user numbers are as high as they've ever been (I really wish I could tell you the actual number—we're keeping it confidential for now but some Rioters are pushing for us to share it soon).

The problem is that when we made this switch, we didn't do enough to take care of the segment of players who really wanted a pure solo queue. We needed to launch new communication features to help solos against premades, and it took us a while before we realized how important it was. We're moving past the "we all want solo Q" argument that some players are still making, because we know that most people are actually fine with it. Instead, we're dedicating serious resources to competitive play to give solo players the tools they need to play seriously. You can guess what some of those tools are.

You're not alone, and Riot hasn't done right by you this season. I hope you hang in there with us while we prepare to deliver some changes to the game that'll make things better.

Sorry for the boring-ass tone of this post. I'd keep it more light but this is actually a serious issue and it matters to me personally.

2016-07-06 Edit: This post is a fact check, nothing more. I posted a source, and none of my own opinions (although it does have Cactopus' opinion in the quote). If you think I have an opinion one way or another based on the content of this post, it speaks more to how you are interpreting these statistics than to what I actually think.

I'll explain my thoughts in a comment, so the main post stays unbiased.

2016-07-21 edit: formatting of the first edit

27 Comments

10110011100012 votes

Missing Stats Check: What percentage of the global playerbase actually plays ranked significantly? How many of them have played X or more games every season?

Argument Check: What percentage of the playerbase is actually aware what Dynamic Queue actually is? To this day, we still have people confusing it and the new champion select system.

I really don't care either way anymore, mostly because I only ever play this game in luls where I might feel a desire to play Teemo or something, but you can't just draw out a single stat by a single Riot member without considering other important factors.

For example, if he says only 11% of the playerbase is royally pissed, but only 35% of the global playerbase actually plays ranked, then that means that about 1/3 of the ranked playerbase actually cares, which is a significant jump in proportion. This is ignoring the fact that they're still holding numbers relative to this argument confidential, meaning arguments made either way based on statistics alone are meaningless, because you don't even have enough numbers to make a solid argument on Dynamic Queue either way.

All you have to work with are ideological arguments of competitive integrity and the value of team effort v individual skill and which should be valued more. Stop pretending like isolated numbers bolster your argument when they mean nothing alone.

SconeOfDoom3 votes

Very valid point. You know what I want to see out of all of this? I want to know what percentage of the player base says that they like the Dynamic Queue changes. You can't just point out how many people are mad about it without pointing out how many people enjoy it, because it gives us very little frame of reference. It would also then indirectly show how many people don't care about which system is in place.

Personally, I don't care either. I prefer the new system mostly because everyone at my ELO can get one of their two preferred roles, and that makes for a more competitive ranked ladder anyways. I couldn't care less if there are pre-mades in my game or not, also because at my level there are enough players where the amount of pre-mades on either team should almost always be the same. I imagine that Dynamic Queue has a more negative effect regarding pre-mades the higher up the ladder you go, since there is a smaller player pool to pick from, but Riot is already aware of that, hence the changes to Dynamic Queue for people in Diamond and above (the top 2% of the ranked ladder). Since Dynamic Queue has so little effect below Platinum, I think that many of the complaints are perceived wrongs, since there is very little way of knowing when you are matched with a pre-made anyways.

All in all, I'm just discussing all this for discussion's sake. Sorry if I bothered you, but I had to get my two cents in.

Rabblerouser3 votes

{quoted}

Personally, I don't care either. I prefer the new system mostly because everyone at my ELO can get one of their two preferred roles

That's not dQ, though. That's draft pick. Solo is meant to match you with other solo players so everyone's on an even playing field and not all skyped up, being better coordinated. I can see the arguments against dQ there. dQ puts everyone in the same pool, solo and premades, which can suck for the solo players.

I prefer dynamic queue because it promotes actual teamwork in a team game and not the single-carry nonsense that Riot wants to phase out... but at the same time, I wish solo was still around when my friends aren't online. I'm no expert in League, I'll be the first to admit. If solo was around, I'd feel I'd have a better chance in ranked.

SconeOfDoom2 votes

True, I just meant the new system in general, which includes the changes to draft. Sorry for not clarifying that earlier!

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

Missing Stats Check: What percentage of the global playerbase actually plays ranked significantly? How many of them have played X or more games every season?

Argument Check: What percentage of the playerbase is actually aware what Dynamic Queue actually is? To this day, we still have people confusing it and the new champion select system.

I really don't care either way anymore, mostly because I only ever play this game in luls where I might feel a desire to play Teemo or something, but you can't just draw out a single stat by a single Riot member without considering other important factors.

For example, if he says only 11% of the playerbase is royally pissed, but only 35% of the global playerbase actually plays ranked, then that means that about 1/3 of the ranked playerbase actually cares, which is a significant jump in proportion. This is ignoring the fact that they're still holding numbers relative to this argument confidential, meaning arguments made either way based on statistics alone are meaningless, because you don't even have enough numbers to make a solid argument on Dynamic Queue either way.

All you have to work with are ideological arguments of competitive integrity and the value of team effort v individual skill and which should be valued more. Stop pretending like isolated numbers bolster your argument when they mean nothing alone.

Edited OP:

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d5WLfgiq,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-06T02:26:15.283+0000)

2016-07-06 Edit: This post was a fact check, nothing more. I posted a source, and none of my own opinions (although it does have Cactopus' opinion in the quote). If you think I have an opinion one way or another based on the content of this post, it speaks more to how you are interpreting these statistics than to what I actually think, which I'll explain in a comment to keep this post unbiased.

All of your arguments assume that I think 11% is a small number. "Oh, that's just a minority." Actually, you're wrong. I think 11% is a huge number of players to be "REALLY pissed" (emphasis mine) over a single change.

https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/statistic_id276601_number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-q1-2005-q1-2015-930x691.png

Consider that world of warcraft had 12m subscribers at its peak, is largely regarded as a dead game, and still has 7m subscribers. That is, they "only" lost roughly 40% of their player base, over a period of 5 years.

1011001110002 votes

Then why post a fact check on a single statistic. Unless the number is large, saying "X% of the playerbase didn't like this" doesn't really mean ANYTHING.

All of my arguments assuming that you're pulling a stat with regards to Dynamic Queue to make a point either way. Although I personally thought you believed it a small number for whatever reason, my argument doesn't change even if you do think it's a big number. Save the fact checks for when we actually have more numbers.

Hyrum Graff5 votes

{quoted}

Then why post a fact check on a single statistic. Unless the number is large, saying "X% of the playerbase didn't like this" doesn't really mean ANYTHING.

All of my arguments assuming that you're pulling a stat with regards to Dynamic Queue to make a point either way. Although I personally thought you believed it a small number for whatever reason, my argument doesn't change even if you do think it's a big number. Save the fact checks for when we actually have more numbers.

In all the DQ threads that continue to pop up, it's very, VERY common for one or both sides to claim "A majority of players (dis)like DQ therefore it's [good/bad]." I hate these arguments for two reasons:

First, I don't think it should matter that much what the majority thinks. This is about competitive integrity. I think Riot should sacrifice enjoyment of the game for competitive integrity, if they want League to be a sport that lasts for generations, which they have said that they do.

Second, the reason I made this thread: People on both sides are pulling that "majority" card out of their ass. I hope that as a result of this thread, people stop saying "Majority like DQ" or "Majority hate DQ" and start saying "11% strongly dislike DQ, I think that's (not) enough that Riot should change something."

It becomes an argument based on facts instead of made-up-facts-as-an-argument. I hope.

macromite1 votes

they are in fact interchangeable. You can't have one without the other. Teambuilder is proof of this.

redfeenix2 votes

Riot just loves to make up their own stats and twist the raw data to fit their narrative

Vistha Kai1 votes

The fact stands, it's at least 7* million people playing the game.

* - If Riot words are anything to go by at this point.

AHeroNamedHawke9 votes

Wow Riot pulling a number out of thin air with no context to justify their statements

That's literally never happened before

Angry Monster3 votes

the same way the DQ haters are...

You guys pull numbers completely based off websites that have 0 context.

Edge of Daybreak3 votes

That stat doesn't matter though because the majority of the global player base doesn't touch ranked. They literally don't even know what we are complaining about because they have never experienced it. I think it was something around 30% of players actually playing ranked could be more could be less. Poll that pool of players and then we can talk. Riot is just pulling a bait by using numbers they know are skewed in their favor. I dont use reddit but I hope someone has brought that up.

Leeerzeichen1 votes

That means that they play normals, tt, or arams and you can play all 3 modes with premates. Its the other way around. It proves that dynamicQ ins't really a problem for players who are used to it.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Wrong.

Most people don't play ranked, a number of people who do, doesn't care and then there's the 11% who are simply angry at Riot for pulling off a shit like that.

It may not be "majority", it's surely not "vocal minority" either.

Goosetard2 votes

Numbers are irrelevant; it's not a question of popularity, but fairness. What's fair and just is not determined by a popular vote. Riot, do your jobs as stewards of a fair and competitive game mode.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

I think he forgot to put a 1 before the 11 in the statistic

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d5WLfgiq,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-07-12T19:26:09.359+0000)

I think he forgot to put a 1 before the 11 in the statistic

wp

Linna Excel2 votes

My problem with Cactopus's 11% numbers is fourfold.

  1. Low information gamers who don't really pay attention to patch notes or anything like that probably won't respond negatively because they lack the information needed to have a positive or negative opinion.
  2. People who don't play ranked won't care about DQ.
  3. DQ and the new champ select are intertwined by the players and riot might be taking the most favorable selection they can.
  4. Sometimes people answer the way they think you want them to.
Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d5WLfgiq,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-07-13T15:16:24.343+0000)

My problem with Cactopus's 11% numbers is fourfold.

  1. Low information gamers who don't really pay attention to patch notes or anything like that probably won't respond negatively because they lack the information needed to have a positive or negative opinion.
  2. People who don't play ranked won't care about DQ.
  3. DQ and the new champ select are intertwined by the players and riot might be taking the most favorable selection they can.
  4. Sometimes people answer the way they think you want them to.

It doesn't really matter to me if the number is higher in reality because, as I said elsewhere in this thread,

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d5WLfgiq,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-07-06T15:49:18.137+0000)

I think 11% is a huge number of players to be "REALLY pissed" (emphasis mine) over a single change.

https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/statistic_id276601_number-of-world-of-warcraft-subscribers-q1-2005-q1-2015-930x691.png

Consider that world of warcraft had 12m subscribers at its peak, is largely regarded as a dead game, and still has 7m subscribers. That is, they "only" lost roughly 40% of their player base, over a period of 5 years.

That's also why I'm inclined to believe that Riot isn't fudging the numbers. If they were fudging the numbers, I'd expect something like 2%, not 11%.

Linna Excel1 votes

I think the numbers are even bigger when you look at real numbers. Riot has 67 million users as of the last time they released them (jan 14). So that's about 6.8 million people mad at riot. So basically, riot has offended every man, woman, and child living in Arizona.

Dankstin1 votes

That means that 89% of players don't care either way. Hmm...

SconeOfDoom1 votes

That's not entirely true, it just means that 89% of players aren't pissed at them. Some players might be annoyed but don't care enough to say anything, some might not care, some might like the changes, and some might love the changes. All that was said was that 11% really don't like the changes.

Hyrum Graff4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Salt Harvest,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d5WLfgiq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-07-06T02:29:55.131+0000)

That means that 89% of players don't care either way. Hmm...

It means 89% of players aren't really pissed at them. I'd guess that the format of the survey gave options of something like "Strongly dislike / dislike / neutral / like / strongly like" and 11% of players picked the first option.

Emerald Fang1 votes

Can't wait till voice chat comes out! The toxicity, the yelling, the one person who tries to voice-chat but everyone ignores them. This will TOTALLY improve DQ!

Athenes Lulu1 votes

The power of being loud and all gathered at a few places, what's new?

However, doesn't mean 10% is very little, no, 10% is kinda a big deal. It's not to the point where things will completely collapse, but it's pretty noticeable.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d5WLfgiq,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-07-06T18:23:56.880+0000)

The power of being loud and all gathered at a few places, what's new?

However, doesn't mean 10% is very little, no, 10% is kinda a big deal. It's not to the point where things will completely collapse, but it's pretty noticeable.

Yeah. Take a look at my comment here and its context for my thoughts.

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