Let's talk about: Dragon

Happy Jack·Nov 20, 2015·2 votes·718 views

Love the stacking buff concept. Keeps Dragon relevant the whole game...

But...

It loses some relevance beyond the first stack.
Aspect of the Dragon is RARELY obtained in most games.
When the 5 stack is gained by a team, often it feels like it's gained in 'garbage time'. The team is already closing out the game and just picked up 5th Drag for kicks.
Possibly decrease spawn timer OR gain Aspect at 4 stacks OR crazy idea... Let players with the killing blow have control of Drag like Morg. Since the pinnacle of Drag is rarely reached a Morde drag each time world make Deag more relevant.

15 Comments

Azuredragon653Nov 20, 20152 votes

Or we can not make snowballing even more prevalent

Happy JackNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Or we can not make snowballing even more prevalent

Games aren't snowballing of a 5th drag at 30 mins.... They have either already snowballed or just won't.

Azuredragon653Nov 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d2RF9Xi8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-20T02:19:03.147+0000)

Games aren't snowballing of a 5th drag at 30 mins.... They have either already snowballed or just won't.

A snowball doesn't have to happen quickly to be a snowball.

Happy JackNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A snowball doesn't have to happen quickly to be a snowball.

Uh yes it does. That is literally the definition:

"increase rapidly in size, intensity, or importance"
"refers to a situation which rapidly gets out of control"

If you don't have anything of substance to contribute, don't.

ZephyrDrakeNov 20, 20152 votes

you do know that every single other buff is useful in their own way right? the extra damage to turrets help against siegeing and splitpushing, the extra MS helps with roams, positioning and many other things, the extra damage to minions makes defending a bit easier since you can wave clear faster (specially useful for those with no wave clear tools)

Happy JackNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you do know that every single other buff is useful in their own way right? the extra damage to turrets help against siegeing and splitpushing, the extra MS helps with roams, positioning and many other things, the extra damage to minions makes defending a bit easier since you can wave clear faster (specially useful for those with no wave clear tools)

Right. The Dragon buffs are useful in themselves. Didn't say they weren't useful.

I'm only talking about the most important 5th Drag... That actually isn't important because it's rarely obtained or obtained in garbage time.

ZephyrDrakeNov 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d2RF9Xi8,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-11-20T02:21:14.855+0000)

Right. The Dragon buffs are useful in themselves. Never said they weren't.

I'm only talking about the most important 5th Drag... That actually isn't important because it's rarely obtained or obtained in garbage time.

Dragon 5 is not about being obtained in every single game, it's supposed to be an objective to be contested to help games end if they drag on for too long, and to prevent the enemy from obtaining it or risk having to fight someone with a buff that gives you so many combat stats that puts you in a heavy disadvantage.

You should never go into a game and be "my goal his game is to get dragon 5" that is something you start working towards and prevent the enemy from obtaining

Happy JackNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Dragon 5 is not about being obtained in every single game, it's supposed to be an objective to be contested to help games end if they drag on for too long, and to prevent the enemy from obtaining it or risk having to fight someone with a buff that gives you so many combat stats that puts you in a heavy disadvantage.

You should never go into a game and be "my goal his game is to get dragon 5" that is something you start working towards and prevent the enemy from obtaining

Aspect of the Drag was not put in to "help games end".

Also, to view it as you do, 'to prevent the enemy from obtaining' is half the story.

It's there for strategic decision making in the late game:

"Dragon poses a much larger late-game threat for teams that take the time to invest in his stacking buffs."

My point is that teams RARELY even contest over a 5th Drag, let alone obtain it in non-garbage time.

It shouldn't be such an anomaly. If pre-season is about experimentation, this is the time to play with it.

ZephyrDrakeNov 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d2RF9Xi8,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-20T03:24:13.609+0000)

Aspect of the Drag was not put in to "help games end".

Also, to view it as you do, 'to prevent the enemy from obtaining' is half the story.

It's there for strategic decision making in the late game:

"Dragon poses a much larger late-game threat for teams that take the time to invest in his stacking buffs."

My point is that teams RARELY even contest over a 5th Drag, let alone obtain it in non-garbage time.

It shouldn't be such an anomaly. If pre-season is about experimentation, this is the time to play with it.

it helps the damn game end because people have to contest it, if they don't then guess what? they have to face a team with massive buffs. You either prevent the enemy from getting it, or get it yourself. Dragon 5 is way too strong and there is no reason for it to be available any easier. You want it to be easier to obtain then it MUST be nerfed and not by a little bit. Dragon 5 is in no need for a change, it's doing its intended job

Happy JackNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it helps the damn game end because people have to contest it, if they don't then guess what? they have to face a team with massive buffs. You either prevent the enemy from getting it, or get it yourself. Dragon 5 is way too strong and there is no reason for it to be available any easier. You want it to be easier to obtain then it MUST be nerfed and not by a little bit. Dragon 5 is in no need for a change, it's doing its intended job

I already educated you to the fact 5th Drag's primary purpose is not to end long games.

I even provided you Riot's context. So stop with this "game ending" nonsense.

You stated "You either prevent the enemy from getting it, or get it yourself." Wrong... and this is my point.

It's RARELY available to even be contested in non-garbage time. It's a non-factor in MOST games.

ZephyrDrakeNov 20, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d2RF9Xi8,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-20T04:37:36.860+0000)

I already educated you to the fact 5th Drag's primary purpose is not to end long games.

I even provided you Riot's context. So stop with this "game ending" nonsense.

You stated "You either prevent the enemy from getting it, or get it yourself." Wrong... and this is my point.

It's RARELY available to even be contested in non-garbage time. It's a non-factor in MOST games.

IT HELPS END GAMES WHETHER YOU WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT IS NOT MY PROBLEM, YOU WANT IT TO BE GOTTEN SOONER? THEN NERF IT HARD!

now good day sir

Happy JackNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

IT HELPS END GAMES WHETHER YOU WANT TO ADMIT IT OR NOT IS NOT MY PROBLEM, YOU WANT IT TO BE GOTTEN SOONER? THEN NERF IT HARD!

now good day sir

By your definition EVERYTHING then is meant to close out a game.

But if you want to disagree with its purpose and with the very people who put it in the game... Go ahead.

BluePolarizerNov 20, 20152 votes

Dragon 3 is gamebreaking because it allows disengages where disengages simply shouldn't have happened. Dragon 4 is also gamebreaking because it leads to a very fast baron if undefended and easier baron steals.

Happy JackNov 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Dragon 3 is gamebreaking because it allows disengages where disengages simply shouldn't have happened. Dragon 4 is also gamebreaking because it leads to a very fast baron if undefended and easier baron steals.

Again...

Right. The Dragon buffs are useful in themselves. Never said they weren't.

I'm only talking about the most important 5th Drag... That actually isn't important because it's rarely obtained or obtained in garbage time.