@Riot, why were Morde's tags changed to Marksman/fighter?

Malicious Metal·Dec 21, 2015·177 votes·5,325 views

I just don't get the reasoning behind it other than to rub it into our faces that you want him to be played bot.

Kindred's a Jungler yet classified as a Marksman Quinn is played mid; marksman Teemo's a top laner and a marksman.

The tags Fighter/mage were perfect for Morde so why change it? Even the mastery titles will be cringeworthy. Instead of a level 5 destroyer he'll be a Pathfinder.

Marksmen are ranged DPS sources, that's why Azir's secondary classified as a marksman. Morde's got no resemblance to a Marksman other than being able to go bot...

Context?

112 Comments

BastionKrossDec 21, 201560 votes

I've heard it's to make him a viable bot lane choice in the new teambuilder-type champ select.

The funny part is that Riot still thinks people are going to be playing him bot, and are actually changing his titles to accommodate this. I haven't seen this level of denial since I tried to squeeze back into the pants I wore in high school and insisted that they shrank with age.

hopeful4Dec 21, 20155 votes

What denial? Morde is played 41% on top and 23% on mid. The rest % games hes played on botlane. And him being ridiculously weak in botlane is why his pickrate got massively decreased as a whole

BastionKrossDec 21, 20153 votes

Cite your source; I'm willing to bet the pickrate is so low that those percentages mean like five people take him bot on a consistent basis.

hopeful4Dec 21, 20155 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Mordekaiser

Just because these forums spam that nobody play Morde bot doesnt mean that its true, especially considering that the ones who started this myth were the very few old Morde players.

BastionKrossDec 21, 20155 votes

That site only used data from plat+ and then only for ranked matches, so it's only a small sliver of the actual games that take place.
That site doesn't actually give the explicit stats for Morde bot; only Morde mid and top. You assumed that the rest would go bot, but you could just as easily assume they're going jungle or support as well. All three are almost equally effective this patch.
If 641 games make up 41% of this sample size, then that's an embarrassingly small sample size in relation to other champions. And that's not counting players playing multiple games with him over the course of a single patch. For all we know, a single player or small group of players could have cranked out a significant portion of those games by themselves; giving the impression that up to 641 people in plat+ were playing Morde bot. In reality, I'd safely say that number is around 20 players; maybe even less than that.

TTUPhoenixDec 21, 20152 votes

Also remember that some games end early enough that Champion.gg can't determine what role a given champ was playing. In those cases, it doesn't assign them to a role at all.

TDubHDec 21, 201512 votes

41+23=64 64-100 = 36, morde is taken more often top than bot, and even then i'm willing to bet its shifting to top over bot due to his solo lane buffs.

hopeful4Dec 21, 20155 votes

First of all the guy implied that no one is playing him botlane, which is false.

Second, as i said above his pickrate got decreased massively (went from like 15% to 1-2%) because he stopped being viable at bot due to the nerfs and the marksman update. Most people were playing him botlane before. The ones that still playing him in solo lanes are basically the playerbase of the old Morde, which was tiny even before the rework

BastionKrossDec 21, 20155 votes

First of all the guy implied that no one is playing him botlane, which is false.

You have to give me some sort of leeway here. I could say that no one plays Teemo as an ADC in bot lane and you could probably find a few players that do. Exceptions to the rule, and all that.

Second, as i said above his winrate got decreased massively (went from like 15% to 1-2%) because he stopped being viable at bot due to the nerfs and the marksman update.

Probably the reason no one's playing him bot lane. Oh sorry, I mean most players aren't playing him bot lane. With the huge nerfs he got after worlds, combined with all the shiny, new toys marksmen got that he can't use, and the solo lane buff he's got coming on the PBE, it's a safe bet to say that bot lane Morde is dead and will soon (hopefully) be a distant memory.

Most people were playing him botlane before.

You mean back when he was so strong he was pick/ban at worlds? Yeah, no kidding. That was almost two months ago, it's not relevant now.

The ones that still playing him in solo lanes are basically the playerbase of the old Morde, which was tiny even before the rework

CerT promised everyone that Morde would be viable both in solo and duo lanes, so it's fair to assume some of the newer players also tried him out there.

hopeful4Dec 21, 20153 votes

Probably the reason no one's playing him bot lane. Oh sorry, I mean most players aren't playing him bot lane. With the huge nerfs he got after worlds, combined with all the shiny, new toys marksmen got that he can't use, and the solo lane buff he's got coming on the PBE, it's a safe bet to say that bot lane Morde is dead and will soon (hopefully) be a distant memory.

A champion is dead and his role will be changed because hes weak for a few patches? Why? Bards role changed when he had 40% winrate on release and for a long time after?

You mean back when he was so strong he was pick/ban at worlds? Yeah, no kidding. That was almost two months ago, it's not relevant now.

I mean back when he was viable. He was abused in pro play because co ordinated teams could use the Dragon in order to siege fast and end games quickly. In soloQ wasnt nearly as strong, same deal as GP now (permaban in pro games, around 46% winrate in soloQ). People were picking him because he was a viable choice, not because he was OP. Now that hes weak as balls, very few pick him for that reason.

CerT promised everyone that Morde would be viable both in solo and duo lanes, so it's fair to assume some of the newer players also tried him out there.

He said from the start that the first priority is the duo lane Morde, because hes far healthier there.

NarasimhaDec 21, 20152 votes

You have to give me some sort of leeway here. I could say that no one plays as an ADC in bot lane and you could probably find a few players that do. Exceptions to the rule, and all that.

Just to jump in, 35% is considerably more than an 'exception'. 5% or so would be an acceptable deviance. But 30% means the rule, in this case that few people play Morde bot, is wrong.

BastionKrossDec 21, 20153 votes

As I stated below, that 35% isn't actually true. The percentages given were for top and mid, and he assumed the rest were going bot. We don't know the actual percentage from that site.

Jungle Morde is just as viable this patch as bot Morde. And there's probably one or two people still trying to make support Morde work.

NarasimhaDec 21, 20152 votes

Certainly true, but speaking personally, I don't think support and jungle would make up a considerable number. I haven't seen a support Morde at all, and I have not seen a jungle Morde be of any great use, be it on my team or theirs. He doesn't clear that well, and his ganks are very disappointing.

z63XnLCMwXDec 21, 201526 votes

{quoted}

41+23=64 64-100 = 36, morde is taken more often top than bot, and even then i'm willing to bet its shifting to top over bot due to his solo lane buffs.

64-100 = -36 Do you even math?

Mecha MaIphiteDec 22, 201514 votes

-36% play rate bot gg

Silents429Dec 21, 20153 votes

I think it is more reasonable that some players are in denial that Riot wants him bot lane, not the other way around.

Bottom LanerDec 21, 20152 votes

Obviously they shrank in the wash :P

Noam BraumskyDec 21, 201525 votes

Inb4 Riot reworks him again into a ranged carry

HighH1Dec 21, 201511 votes

inb4 malicious metal cries himself to sleep every night

Malicious MetalDec 21, 201527 votes

Implying I'm not doing it already.

Jeddy017Dec 21, 201524 votes

Marksman......... Mordekaiser ..............Morde is a marksman?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

That's like calling Ashe a tank.

JariDec 21, 201524 votes

Ashe "I gotta by myself some item 3075 because the tutorial told me to!"

HayRossDec 22, 20152 votes

Garen item 3004 He Ashe, sweet thornmail

blueberrypancakeDec 21, 20154 votes

Wait i thought thornmail on her was core

kappa

AquariusGineDec 21, 201520 votes

w t f..

A marksman, or sharpshooter, is a person who is skilled in precision shooting, using projectile weapons, usually with a rifle but most commonly with a designated marksman rifle or a special application rifle, to shoot at long range targets. - Wikipedia

How is Morde remotely a marksman?

RyzeReworkDec 21, 20156 votes

Because his e and his.... ult can steal a marksmen... and sometimes he can flash to hit somone ; p

DrProfVibeCheckDec 21, 201515 votes

I GET WHY THEY CHANGED HIS ROLE!

ITES BECAUSE MORDE "MARKS MEN" WITH HIS R!!

...

im so sorry...

GundayMondayDec 21, 201514 votes

Probably has to do with how teambuilder finds matches (which is how new matchmaking is going to work soon). You never get a morde botlane looking for "Bot lane - Marksman" in teambuilder, so they probably changed the tags to accommodate.

Now at the same time, that makes zero sense, so maybe they need to change the roles to something more generic like "Carry" so he can be a bot lane, mid lane, carry. It's a weird problem to make data stuff work in the background of the game.

Photos of GhostsDec 21, 20152 votes

That's why you leave open roles for bot as captain, and you pick "bot lane - marksman" even on Morde as basic member.

GundayMondayDec 21, 20155 votes

I almost typed "but wouldn't you get too many supports?" and then thought for a moment before breaking out into laughter. I'll try your suggestion next time I team build! :D

Photos of GhostsDec 21, 20152 votes

Depenging on hours, you actually do sometimes.

But more often you find a Heimerdinger tank bot to go with your Draven support.

It Hertz When IPDec 21, 20155 votes

I would almost pay to see someone make that work.

I7A6X2v2Dec 21, 20158 votes

For me this champ is NOT a marksman, they think we are stupid...

ltmetalDec 21, 20158 votes

This change may actually bother me more than when they almost changed Morde's title to "Lord of Death." It's a blatant misrepresentation of Mordekaiser's play pattern that makes me wonder if the guy proposing the change even understands how Morde works, or maybe even how the game works.

It Hertz When IPDec 21, 20158 votes

But see, that would have been a good change. If I came up against a champion named "Death Lord, the Lord of Death" I'd be too busy laughing to CS properly.

kappa

YumaS2AstralDec 21, 20157 votes

Where have you seen that Mordekaiser has been changed to a Marksman/Fighter?

Is it on PBE?

BALDG1VEN BOOMERDec 21, 20155 votes

Yes

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/luIYfh3E-mordekaiser-primary-role-labeled-as-marksman

ModKnightsKemplarDec 21, 20156 votes

Yeah, that's just dumb, honestly. Even if he were working beautifully bot lane, and everyone loved the rework, he's still not a marksman.

Belmont UprisingDec 21, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=d0BnRuY8,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-21T14:53:40.630+0000)

The tags Fighter/mage were perfect for Morde so why change it? Even the mastery titles will be cringeworthy. Instead of a level 5 destroyer he'll be a Pathfinder.

Hey on the brightside, the mastery title pathfinder will be accurate for him. Morde is in the middle of an identity crisis, atleast in Riots eyes.

Malicious MetalDec 21, 201520 votes

http://orig00.deviantart.net/8502/f/2014/015/0/a/mordekaiser_is_no_longer__1_by_eltonel-d729tog.jpg

MrSlowDieDec 21, 20154 votes

it's just a nice way of rito saying "We still will push morde towards botlane"

okinoDec 21, 20153 votes

It doesn't even make sense. I know, diversity in bot lane is something lots of people have wanted but calling a Melee champion a Marksman? Just... It doesn't fit. Some may say that rejecting that tag is just being too close-minded but Marksman were always ranged DPS. It's a fact.

MaratsuneDec 22, 20153 votes

Wow. I don't play Morde at all, but wasn't his whole fighter/mage identity a big part of him as a champion? Taking that away despite the (very devoted) fanbase CLEARLY stating they want otherwise seems like kind of a senseless thing to do.

LordOfTheLeagueDec 22, 20153 votes

As long as you mainly auto attack from range, you are a marksman so it fits kindred, quinn and teemo. It's not about where you go on the map it's how you fonction in teamfights.

It doesn't fit morde at all tho.

Artificial HumanDec 21, 20152 votes

Eh, just to understand you mordekaiser players better. Do you tolerate Bot mordekaiser at all or do you want Mordekaiser not to be bot at any cost? Riot clearly wants to make botlane his primary role, so if you guys don't want that to be his fate, then i would suggest to make it very clear that he shouldn't be there as the first step. Because at the moment they keep making changes for his primary role.

blkKalameetDec 22, 20156 votes

As I've gathered the player base wants him to be viable as a solo lane. If he still can go duo bot thats fine too, but not if it's at the expense of his solo ability.

RisenDarkKnightDec 22, 20152 votes

Marksmen are by definition ranged. Master Yi, Yasuo, Trynd, Fiora are all melee carry champions that were "ADC"s but Riot created the marksman tag to differentiate them from ranged ADCs.

"Marksmen" by Riot's definition are "These champions deal large amounts of consistent, rapid-fire damage to enemies from a safe distance. They often employ the help of Supports to stay alive, as they are fragile and require time to build up their attack strength over the course of a game."

Morde does burst damage from very short range, is moderately tanky, and was incredibly strong before 25 minutes before falling off extremely hard. (before the last couple batches of nerfs he had over a 60% winrate in 25 minute or shorter games and about a 40% for 45 minute games). He's almost the opposite of a marksman. Just because a champion can be played in a duo lane and take the farm doesn't make them a marksman, it makes them a carry.

Stars ShaperDec 22, 20152 votes

They'll try to tell us that his fantasy was Marksman all along... xD

RhyvinnDec 22, 20151 votes

First, there is a difference between the terms "marksman" and "ADC". The lanes are irrelevant. You said yourself, "Marksmen are ranged DPS sources". Kindred, Teemo, and Quinn more than fit that definition. It doesn't necessarily mean they are meant to play bot lane.

As for Morde... While he was originally built around his AP damage, he also does a considerable amount of DPS damage when built with AD and AS items. So yes, he could be considered a Marksman. I would consider him more of a mage/fighter myself, but yes.

Champion SkinDec 22, 20152 votes

"Marksmen are ranged DPS sources"

If that's what we go out from then Mordekaiser is clearly doesn't fit that as he is melee not raged (also he is more burst than he is sustained damage having insane damage in his Q but not so much after that)