@Riot Meddler Shen is the worst top laner now because of 6.18 nerfs when can we expect the buffs

Doseqis··35 votes·40,788 views

When can we expect buffs for these champions, the balance team mentioned buffing him during preseason but i haven't seen any indication of that so i just was hoping if there was any patch or time you predict these will be rolling out.

On the same note can we expect any buffs to champions like Azir and Kalista who are practically unplayable in their lanes due to so many nerfs to them.

110 Comments

RiotMeddler33 votes

Our current plan is to look at Shen buffs in 6.23 or 6.24 (which depends on how much pre-season response work's needed). We'll also be looking at other champions like Azir and Kalista around the same time for possible small changes. They both need bigger work, but we'd like to see what we can do in the meantime until then, given that larger scoped work wouldn't be for a fair while.

Big Lincoln11 votes

will you be looking at garen too? he's been a pretty sub-par pick for a while now

RiotMeddler20 votes

Yes, around the same time.

Big Lincoln52 votes

can you make his "justice" lines global so everybody knows he slain a villain

Ralanr13 votes

Can we also have global Karthus ult quotes? The world needs to hear the lightbringer.

I am Razgriz1 votes

Aren't they?

Ralanr2 votes

I don't remember so.

The Planeswalker11 votes

They should make the ult's volume distance-based, so if you're all the way at bot lane you'll hear a faint "juustii...!" and if you're getting hit it's super loud and overbearing, like Garen.

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Also make the shockwave that normally only Garen sees upon a Villain smite visible by all, so they all know what justice looks like.

La Bello2 votes

could you maybe look into making his Judgment somehow scale with attack speed? I think that would be a nice little niche change

FantasySniper1 votes

Actually, doesn't his ult have a passive true-damage on hit? I can see PD being a relatively strong item on him.

Stephenizgod8 votes

I think Kalista should remain in her current state until you guys can fully rework her, she is a very interesting champion design but I don't think she works in league. Azir is somewhat similar but I believe you guys can fix him.

RiotMeddler25 votes

I suspect we'll have to keep Kalista weak until we can make some significant changes to her. She's got too many strengths which means she crowds out other marksmen pretty hard if at a useful power level. What we're going to look at though is whether she needs to be as extremely weak as she is at present, or whether we've got some room to buff her.

Angry Monster11 votes

wouldn't that make her a failed concept? Especially if you are planning to have to Olaf her. (season 3 meaning of the term, aka keeping weak ).

Is riot having conversation yet about how some designers keep throwing loads of extras in kits? Kalista is a fairly new champ and should not need a rework at any level. A lot of NEW champs have tons of strengths and then fail on weakness.

RiotMeddler30 votes

Both Kalista and Azir are representative of a period where in hindsight I think we tunnel visioned too much on uniqueness at the expense of some aspects of game health (overloaded kits) and skill floors. That's resulted in some champs who have really cool stuff on their kits, but have been challenges to balance for regular play versus top tier play. My take is that there are solid concepts there, but that the execution on them needs some work (reducing unnecessary strengths primarily, and putting that power into other parts of the kit, giving clearer weaknesses to play around).

Solideus3 votes

Are any champions other than Kalista and Azir similarly overloaded?

Jeddy01719 votes

Rek'sai comes to mind for me. She came out the same year as those 2 & has had a similar history as those 2 as well.

Divewing19 votes

I think rek sais issue is that Tremor Sense is disgustingly strong with no real way to play around it in pro play, problem is barring the tunnels, it's kind of her gimmick The other nerfs were roundabout ways to try balance her without having to nerf TS

warpenguin5559 votes

2014 was pretty much the year of overloaded champions. Vel'Koz and Braum were fine, but the rest of the releases that year were Gnar Azir Kalista RekSai in that order. And I believe Yasuo was released in the preseason leading up to that year. Its like Riot felt like they had to compensate for less champion releases by overloading most of their new champions or something

Raxistaicho2 votes

Nah, Braum's pretty ridic too, it's that it doesn't show as well thanks to him being a tank support.

Yoshjj9 votes

cough Ekko cough

Auroramancer4 votes

Ekko

LaPoops4 votes

Yasuo Ekko

Aptest3 votes

Kalista Azir Yasuo Taliyah Kindred

some of them have been already nerfed.

Divewing4 votes

Has any further decision/state of mind concerning Azir been reached? Last we heard from you (Riot in general), you were of the opinion his Shuffle and DPS playstyles cannot co-exist. Is that still the opinion?

Myself personally I think his Q is the main problem since it's giving him burst, poke, and when it's strong, early game power that he otherwise has no business having, which can be solved with numbers, and would subsequently retain both his playstyles (which reading between the lines feels like something you would, in an ideal world, like to keep).

-Concerned Azir main

Aptest1 votes

honestly i think you did a good job that resulted in a bunch of really cool and unique characters.

you went overboard with the 1-upping of the counterplay options to most of them. which is now something you need to mop up. But i'd rather you continue the path of really special champions and mop up later, than castrate yourself and make another volibear.

Woook3r1 votes

what if you werent letting the other champions in the league hold you back?

Stephenizgod2 votes

That makes sense, hopefully you guys can figure out how to make her at least somewhat viable as she is. She is a super unique champion with a lot of fun mechanics, bot lane definitely could use some different mechanics.

Doseqis7 votes

Honestly if you are going to buff Shen could you possibly just start out small by trying to give him some base stats his base hp late game is pretty laughable and feels pretty bad for the Shen player when someone building a bruiser item is tanker than you with a tank item.

Another way to go about buffing him could possibly be in his passive, it goes from being a super good passive to being pretty sub par when you are slowed and can't pull the sword through someone, or the delay on when it actually activates which is after an ability.

RiotMeddler10 votes

Looking at base stats is probably where we'll start.

Sèx Craved Eve5 votes

{quoted}

Looking at base stats is probably where we'll start.

Would you think about disabling Kalista's passive when she's slowed so she can still attack as fast as she's meant to? Would be nice.

maliknomercy3 votes

I just want to thank you for hearing the community out and say that it is great that riot has started to change champions and not for get him like someone called old yorick and riot communication with the community has improved a ton

Woook3r1 votes

his taunt is a short duration cc. he should be able to do it more often, like 3 times in a fight. super mobile shen. make it happen.

Malicious Metal5 votes

Will you look at some of the Jungling tanks? The removal of SotA indirectly hurt their cinderhulk powerspike. Anyways, going to look forward to 6.23, I'm actually more excited for it than the Assassin update.

Also >obligatory thoughts on Morde?< comment.

l Serene l 1 votes

Have you guys considered adding magical damage to Azir's non-soldier basic attacks?

CyberSmoke300011 votes

Have you considered buying Nashor's Tooth?

Evenstar2 votes

What about Karma update for S7? So much potential but you guys are just putting her aside again.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Karma is in a better spot than the other champs mentioned tbh

Kirasathin1 votes

{quoted}

Our current plan is to look at Shen buffs in 6.23 or 6.24 (which depends on how much pre-season response work's needed). We'll also be looking at other champions like Azir and Kalista around the same time for possible small changes. They both need bigger work, but we'd like to see what we can do in the meantime until then, given that larger scoped work wouldn't be for a fair while.

As Azir main, having almost 200k mastery points on him, I think he underperforms especially early game(Ik he is late game champ, but needs some early game buffs to be able to transfer to that mid/late game). I even gave up on him for a month or two (because started playing A.Sol), but recently I play him a lot of again. I just love his lore, gameplay, visual design, etc. Although he is so weak, I keep playing him and still sometimes manage to score a good kda. Right now, he is way too team dependent, you can easily lose your lane as Azir and if you do so, you can serve as utility mage with little damage unless you have 4-5 items at least. His early mana costs are a bit high and you can easily go OOM if you try to poke your opponent, because his damage is not high either. The only way to success as Azir in an equal match-up is to farm as much as you can and also your laning depends on the jungle pressure. Maybe changing the passive will be good for Azir? Or at least let it provide some passive buff(s), or make the tower to appear faster.

BabySheep1 votes

{quoted}

Our current plan is to look at Shen buffs in 6.23 or 6.24 (which depends on how much pre-season response work's needed). We'll also be looking at other champions like Azir and Kalista around the same time for possible small changes. They both need bigger work, but we'd like to see what we can do in the meantime until then, given that larger scoped work wouldn't be for a fair while.

Will you boost wukong, seems wukong is week on top lane, also not good for jg

ARTOS5161 votes

If you're going to work on Azir, 100% of the Azir players (I used to play with him before he got nerfed to ashes) will tell you to don't remove Shurima Shuffle and don't change W's passives. All you need to do is remove April's+ nerfs, being the Ult's nerf and the W's nerf..... Or instead, you remove the Ult's nerf, increase the ammount of max mana he gains per level, increase his W's damage for LVL10- and give him more tankie stats, because Azir has lots of utility that with these suggestions would make him better for team fights, and maybe support Azir would actually work.

kyle53421 votes

What do you think for Kalista, reduce the animation of her passive and even make animation of AA after passive's animation so she throw her spear at position at the end of passive's animation. That would make her passive scale more efficiently with AS. ADC are usually build dependant, Kalista need AS and her build is quite expensive and deal few damage, so maybe up her AS ((and with grain of salt up % on her AA)). And of course, nerf damage on E in late game. But passive's animation is the most important I think because that make Kalista seems really slow and boring to play!

Edit: Oh, I think her passive his bugged, it says that it scale with boot tier but I tried without, with and tier 2 boot and distance lunge didn't change at all. Passive's animation have a little casting time but maybe it's her AA's animation which is very slow for an ADC!

Dynamiku Entry1 votes

How are those Shen buffs coming along

SwiftKitten882 votes

what about Nidalee , she was completely ignored in the "assassin" update.

Bladerunner77772 votes

Nidalee is more of a skirmisher + poke

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Tell me more about nidalee getting buffs when she's PB in worlds lul

LordGeovanni1 votes

no one said buffs he said the update was to change unhealthy and uninteractive things

Draqone1 votes

Eh, the only unhealthy thing about Nida was her clearspeed. She has a good siege/poke identity and her spear is OK-ish to dodge giving the enemy counterplay and making her "interactive" in that sense.

Baron Perenolde1 votes

The best buff Riot could give would be to revert Shen's rework, if you ask me. [zombie-brand-clap]

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