I see pros picking her but I feel they are in the same boat as most Cass players - we love the champion but she simply can't fulfill her role properly.
Why can't you understand this Riot?! You gave her so many obstacles, her ''lategame AP DPS Hypercarry fantasy'' is outscaled by every burst mage
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
OperationDEEZ116 votesNothing new there.
Maple Crusader15 votesI've stopped playing Cass because she takes too long to scale, she's unsafe, and she's terrible in a team fight.
WookieJesuz1 votesMight I ask where you got your majestic icon
Maple Crusader1 votesMight I ask where you got your majestic icon
Got it from the store. The dragon icon is always available at 250 RP.
Paress6 votesthis :^)
She took some hard nerfs in both Mana/Life sustain and Mana costs.
Faustavian2 votesI agree, she does take too long to.... Scale.... Puns.
Canastus14 votesEven the professional Cassiopeias are more passive than aggressive, it's her team doing most of the work while she's there to ride the wave. It's pretty much the same in Solo Q where she becomes extremely hard to use if she doesn't have a proper team to work with.
She simply can't do anything on her own and when the moment comes where she's actually capable of dueling someone (without going oom) she simply gets blown up from cc and collective focus. Her current kit would work greatly on a champion with an early powerspike, too bad they flipped the coin on this one.
They make her out as this great lategame teamfighting machine which she isn't at all. She can't even switch targets fast enough to function in that kind of environment and her lack of range and mobility make her the least safest hypercarry to play as. She's far too unreliable and cannot be deemed viable because of that.
Akenero1 votesEven the professional Cassiopeias are more passive than aggressive, it's her team doing most of the work while she's there to ride the wave. It's pretty much the same in Solo Q where she becomes extremely hard to use if she doesn't have a proper team to work with.
She simply can't do anything on her own and when the moment comes where she's actually capable of dueling someone (without going oom) she simply gets blown up from cc and collective focus. Her current kit would work greatly on a champion with an early powerspike, too bad they flipped the coin on this one.
They make her out as this great lategame teamfighting machine which she isn't at all. She can't even switch targets fast enough to function in that kind of environment and her lack of range and mobility make her the least safest hypercarry to play as. She's far too unreliable and cannot be deemed viable because of that.
Wait, what? She doesnt have a horrible early, in fact it's EXTREMELY oppresive if played to perfection, e refunds mana on kills, so she should never run out in lane unless she all ins, and at 100 stacks(or @ 10 minutes exactly if you never hit with poison, in which case drop cass) she gets a heal off of using e. Also dueling her becomes increasingly impossible after level 2, as she now has poison and mega-spam e which increases poison damage! Trades lose you a shit-load of mana, yes, but her e restores all of its cost and then some for killing units! Thats not weak
Quepha6 votesWait, what? She doesnt have a horrible early, in fact it's EXTREMELY oppresive if played to perfection, e refunds mana on kills, so she should never run out in lane unless she all ins, and at 100 stacks(or @ 10 minutes exactly if you never hit with poison, in which case drop cass) she gets a heal off of using e. Also dueling her becomes increasingly impossible after level 2, as she now has poison and mega-spam e which increases poison damage! Trades lose you a shit-load of mana, yes, but her e restores all of its cost and then some for killing units! Thats not weak
It takes 5 last hits with an E to recover enough mana for a single spell (and one missed last hit with an E sets you back that same number) the mana refund basically just gives her an alternative to auto attack for cs'ing but still isn't much better than a normal auto attack. not only is dueling cass at level 2 not impossible, she can't even kill her target without running out of mana to say nothing of what happens if she misses even a single skillshot
Her early game is awful. It's intended to be awful and statistics show it to be awful. Statistically Cass's win rate takes a big drop if a game is shorter than 30 minutes, and another big drop if it's shorter than 25. Her winrate only goes over 50% at somewhere past 40 minutes.
BastionKross11 votesPre-rework, whenever I saw a Cass, I knew I had to get on top of her before she had a chance to poke down my team with poisons. Her Q and W were basically 
mini-shrooms that could devastate champs with DoT poisons. Once in a while she might toss an E out, but usually Cass players were content to sit in the back and lob poisons until an actual teamfight broke out.
Post-rework, she's a free kill most of the time. Immobile, squishy, very limited self-peel, and weak until both she gets to late game AND she's in a situation where she can E you multiple times while you just stand there. She's like a 
without the aid of a support; and we all know how Koggles is doing right now.
Kazukes10 votesI liked how she was before the rework when q and w weren't useless for damage. If I ever saw someone I did not wanna risk committing to with E I could just Q them, but now its max E first whatever you do.
Cassiopeia's range is so low for that conditional needing them to be poisoned thing. Have to go into enemy tank engage range to E. So come time for everyone to group if you ever land a q on a target you can't do anything because they just walk backward and even if they don't they are standing right by their tanks meaning no using E unless you want to get stomped under some bruiser/engage tanks boot.
Akenero2 votesI liked how she was before the rework when q and w weren't useless for damage. If I ever saw someone I did not wanna risk committing to with E I could just Q them, but now its max E first whatever you do.
Cassiopeia's range is so low for that conditional needing them to be poisoned thing. Have to go into enemy tank engage range to E. So come time for everyone to group if you ever land a q on a target you can't do anything because they just walk backward and even if they don't they are standing right by their tanks meaning no using E unless you want to get stomped under some bruiser/engage tanks boot.
Here's how I play teamfights, I assist in the beginning with q for speed and w to slow them down, which have large ranges Compared to tanks.
Next up is dependent upon the first front line to break. If it's basically even, then their carries will come forward and one of them(typically adc) WILL die. If our front line breaks with their tanks alive, it's a matter of kiting the tanks hard enough for their carries to catch up, which equals either a turn or continued kiting until turning is viable
If theirs breaks first, cass goes into seige mode, with miasma blocking off entire reigons of the fight. Meanwhile the tanks will be focused on getting me close to them, and forcing out hard cc so i can potentially flash ult and get kills.
Her teamfight is fucking amazing if you have good teammates
The Whamboozler5 votesYou do realize that your description of how you play teamfights basically looks like you personally don't do much other than land a slow or two, right? I mean, it's probably just the way you wrote it looks like "during teamfights I land a slow and hope my team wins, then I go in and have my tanks hold my hand since I'm super vulnerable and WILL die if the LOSING team turns on me". THAT is the problem. Cass NEVER feels strong. She always seems to need massive babysitting AND she's powerless to really start or influence fights until things are pretty much decided already by her team and the enemy's team. The only thing she's really good at is counter-engaging with her ult to try and turn a fight around.
Pity that there are a ton of champs who can do that too (
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, 
, and I'm probably leaving some out) and they all offer more than Cass does in other situations AND don't take 30 minutes to become relevant.
Feathermane6 votesMost people complain about Cass being weak. Personally, I don't like having to waste Flash upon her hitting level 3 every time. But her new playstyle is awful, completely unfun mana management minigame with barely any interaction with your opponent. Stashu must have never played Cassiopeia before or after his rework.
The Whamboozler4 votesNot sure why you're shocked. Cass has been trash since her (entirely unneeded) rework from an underpicked poison mage into a shitty AP marksman who only becomes relevant after stacking her BS passive for 25 minutes and who loses all her damage if she accidentally presses E on someone she didn't Q or W first. Seriously... imagine being an adc. Now imagine you're hideously immobile. Now imagine your auto attacks cost mana. NOW imagine you have to hit the enemy with your Q or W (Which are smallish AoE's and do almost no damage on their own) before you Auto attack them or you lose the ability to auto attack for like 4 seconds. Now imagine...
Ok, you get the idea. Cass has been shit since her rework. The rework made her shit and given how they have done nothing to fix it, nothing to apologize for it and nothing to even TALK to Cass's old fanbase for over a year we can only conclude that Riot just... wants Cass to be shit. They ruined her lore, her VO and my favorite skin for her too (yay mystic cass and her horse face) so yeah... I pretty much just stopped playing Cass. Most of her fans did. Riot peed in our cereal and refused to replace it... so we went and made a sandwich instead... and now our cereal is still there... bloated and soggy and full of rancid milk and pee and... Ok, I'll stop the the terrible analogies.
Short reply. Riot put Cass in the garbage and refuses to take her out, or even to TALK about why she's in there.
Quepha3 votesRight now? She's been pretty bad since the Shurima event.
Mooninites3 votesshe's a low range mage with zero mobility, very little cc, and no survivability. She is not viable in any meta except maybe season 1 or 2. She;s just a totally unrealistic champion right now
DillyDallyGhosT2 votesShe feels 10x more awful to play against, I assure you.
Penguin Eclipse10 votesShe feels 10x more awful to play against, I assure you.
To play against? No way. The old Cass was a poking beast. Between her higher poison damage and strong mana-reduction passive she could poke you down in no time. Cass' that were good were nearly unbeatable in lane regardless of who the opponent was.
You probably don't remember because only 1% of the entire player base ever played her. You'd get the impression that everyone did by the forums. But that isn't the case.
MakersF4 votesPrework Cass was extremely fun. I bought her just a couple of months before, but I had a lot of fun. It made me remember old Kassa (I leveled to 30 with him). Poke with Q & E, when they are low enough R in and smash them in an AA trade they can't win (I miss AS on magic dmg as passive :( ).
Cassio was the same, Q spam to poke, all in with E when you can.
Both needed good mana management and balancing between poking and farming and not pushing. Vulnerable without ulti e destroyed by silences. Fun champs
I never touched cassiopeia again after the rework. I don't really find her fun.
KayleeT2 votesOnce my cass hits level 2 its usually a free kill idk what u guys are doing
Dregn hun1 votesWell unless your opponent get's dc or just missclick and gets 2 turretshots @lvl2, there is no way you can even deal any significant dmg to it with your medicore dmg e and nonexsistent q's.
ForgiveColour2 votes[deleted]
Quepha5 votesNow actually watch that game and see how even getting her whole team to baby her to get a good early game and get some items built, she still didn't do enough damage reliably enough to contribute to any lategame fights and they just got stomped every time.
A hypercarry with a hilariously bad early game that can't even carry in the late.
ForgiveColour1 voteslol
Biffolo2 votesShe needs protection at all stages of the game, but when she gets it her damage is practically unparalleled. 155 flat damage plus 55% of her AP (which is going to wind up disgustingly high) every .5 seconds is pretty much only surpassed by crits from adcs.
Quepha5 votesShe needs protection at all stages of the game, but when she gets it her damage is practically unparalleled. 155 flat damage plus 55% of her AP (which is going to wind up disgustingly high) every .5 seconds
*when for 3 seconds once she lands a skillshot
Her damage isn't that much better than similar choices given how much baloney she has to go through to get it done.
Biffolo1 votesI mean, she's easily crossing 1k AP late game. If we say she has 1k, that's 705 damage twice per second. That's 1410 a second before resists and stuff. That's not even counting the smaller poison damage which adds another bit on, or her ultimate. 2820 over 2 seconds. 4230 after 3. I don't know how much more you want tbh. That's a metric fuck load of damage that just keeps going up the longer a fight persists.
Quepha5 votesI mean, she's easily crossing 1k AP late game. If we say she has 1k, that's 705 damage twice per second. That's 1410 a second before resists and stuff. That's not even counting the smaller poison damage which adds another bit on, or her ultimate. 2820 over 2 seconds. 4230 after 3. I don't know how much more you want tbh. That's a metric fuck load of damage that just keeps going up the longer a fight persists.
zhonya's rabadon's seraph's rylai's sorceror's void staff total of 2391 mana
total of 521 AP x1.65 from fully stacked passive and rabadon's 861 AP
Wow, look how EASY that was 6 items, fully stacked tear, fully stacked passive! No problem! what an EASY time that was getting all that And look at my ONE THOUSAND AP (minus 14 percent) From such an EASY to acquire build and an EASY to stack passive and another passive that was EASY to stack. It sure was EASY dragging the game out long enough for me to get all those things when I was dead weight for the first 20 minutes of it! And the other team are just going to be EASY to beat despite the builds they've gotten during this time! They sure won't have an EASY time cc'ing me with my no mobility or bursting me with my glass cannon build or just staying out of my twin fang range with their mobility!
Biffolo1 votesHey uh, one flaw with the back end of this comment here. ITS THE FUCKING POINT THAT IT TAKES FOREVER TO GET. Also, IF YOUR TEAM DOESN'T PEEL FOR YOU, YOU WILL DIE LIKE ANY IMMOBILE CARRY IN THE GAME. THATS ALSO THE FUCKING POINT. She needs good coordination and time to scale. That's it. If you don't have them she can't succeed. I don't see the problem here.
Edit: Also it's probably a good thing she cant get an easy 1k ap anymore, since those damage numbers were straight up fucking disgusting. I'll even round her E down to 50% here just to keep this a bit more reasonable still to prove a point. It's 585 damage per e. That's still over 1000 dps before resistances. That's still a metric assload of damage that is sustainable for long periods of time. Sure, leblanc or annie can do more up front, but they have cooldowns to worry about. Her ultimate with this ap is also a 780 aoe damage nuking stun. Q adds a base 78 DPS before any Ap scalings which adds up as well. She hurts if she gets the protection and time she needs. It's like kogmaw in a sense, has the potential to be good in organized play, but will struggle in soloq unless overtuned to shit.
Quepha2 votesHey uh, one flaw with the back end of this comment here. ITS THE FUCKING POINT THAT IT TAKES FOREVER TO GET. Also, IF YOUR TEAM DOESN'T PEEL FOR YOU, YOU WILL DIE LIKE ANY IMMOBILE CARRY IN THE GAME. THATS ALSO THE FUCKING POINT. She needs good coordination and time to scale. That's it. If you don't have them she can't succeed. I don't see the problem here.
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about. You said she EASILY hits 1k AP and she doesn't even hit that with a completely full build.
Biffolo1 votesI made a mistake I admit that. Either way, I edited the above post and showed that the 1k ap was more than she needed to deal absurd dps. Even with only 861 its practically unparalleled by anything that's not a marksman.
Edit: also, you didn't respond to the point I brought up there. The fact that it's kind of her shtick to take a while to scale and need the team to protect her, but when she does it's disgusting.
Quepha2 votesI made a mistake I admit that. Either way, I edited the above post and showed that the 1k ap was more than she needed to deal absurd dps. Even with only 861 its practically unparalleled by anything that's not a marksman.
Edit: also, you didn't respond to the point I brought up there. The fact that it's kind of her shtick to take a while to scale and need the team to protect her, but when she does it's disgusting.
You have to work harder for that than any other hyper carry, wait longer, get more protection, and the benefit in damage is marginal. Her winrate reflects that, the opinions of people who play her reflects that, the timestamp at which her winrate starts to turn in her favor reflects that, footage from matches reflects that, even Riot admits that they need to do more work to her and are planning changes.
Biffolo1 votesSo she has to work harder. I don't really see how that is an issue. Seeing as most other hypercarries don't have an aoe 2 second stun.
Quepha4 votesSo she has to work harder. I don't really see how that is an issue. Seeing as most other hypercarries don't have an aoe 2 second stun.
I wish Cass did too but 90% of the time it's just a slow if your opponents have any sense.
Biffolo1 votesWhen they go in on you they are going to be facing you.
Biffolo1 votesUnless you are using it when they are in animation to reduce the reaction window to something so incredibly short they cant consistently dodge it :). If you use her correctly she has absurd payoff. That's why it needs to be a pain in the ass to use her said way.
Quepha2 votesUnless you are using it when they are in animation to reduce the reaction window to something so incredibly short they cant consistently dodge it :). If you use her correctly she has absurd payoff. That's why it needs to be a pain in the ass to use her said way.
They have just about 1 full second to react, most animations complete by that point and don't decrease the window to react at all.
Biffolo1 votesAssume the animation runs for a quarter second, if you use at the start of those, that brings it down to .75 seconds. Assume they have a reaction time of 250ms brings it down to a half second. Account for we'll say an average of 50 ping on NA that brings it down to .45 seconds to realize, get your mouse in position and then properly react. People aren't doing that in silver, nor are they doing it in low plat. They don't even always do it in high elo games. Why? Because it's nowhere near as simple as you make it seem.
Quepha2 votesAssume the animation runs for a quarter second, if you use at the start of those, that brings it down to .75 seconds.
You're already 100% incorrect and I don't even need to read the rest of your post.
The player doesn't close their eyes when starting a cast animation, they are still watching the screen and listening to the game. They see the Cass's animation start, they hear Cass's wail, and they know that as soon as their animation finishes they can click and avoid the only hard cc on Cass's kit. You're talking about reducing the INPUT WINDOW, which is also wrong as there are VERY FEW animations in the game that can't be canceled to change directions and even 10 frames for an input is easy (although humans can consistently get 1 frame inputs with dedication and practice). The limit of human reaction time in video games is something like 13 frames, you give more than triple that amount of time and your calculations are already cutting reality down by 50%.
Biffolo1 votesAnd so incredibly few players actually do that during the game that it's not a problem until the very top levels of play.
TeCoolMage1 votesI think she works perfectly fine in terms of scaling to late game, her problems lie in how she's played (kiting snake?) and what the focus is (Q vs E)
Handin Out Naps1 votesPros dont pick champs because they love them, they pick them to win.
Quepha5 votesPros dont pick champs because they love them, they pick them to win.
Then why did they pick Cass, get her to lategame, and still lose?
Handin Out Naps1 votesThey sure as hell don't pick her because they like playing her. I understand that you are angry that Cass isn't what you want her to be, but pros pick strong champions because they want to win. Nothing more, nothing less.
Biffolo1 votesThey lost because she didn't get the protection she needed late game.
Stellafreyja1 votes(Cass is actually really good for DFT right now, just saying)
I never played Cassiopeia prior to her rework, so I can't really say much and what I have played is mostly in ARAM. But in my opinion, her early game is too weak for a "hyper carry" especially compared to other hyper carries. Also, it takes her far too long to reach her "late game" especially compared to other hyper carries. Also, the lack of CC hurts her immensely, because at least Vayne, Jinx, and Tristana have peel to protect them if they get dived.
GroovyBagpiper1 votesTry taking her bot with twitch while both running thunderlord's decree
