There was a time in LoL's history when people actually made threads about how balanced and fun itwas

AquariusGine·Feb 15, 2016·188 votes·7,094 views

Cinderhulk patch. Remember those front-paged threads about how almost every champ was viable? People were REJOICING about how they could play whatever they want and not feel like trash. Assassins were viable but weren't overbearing. Fighters and Tanks could coexist. ADC were bot laned DPS carries. AP was fun to play.. Many of the 'unviable' picks found their spot in the game.

A time when both and were playable. Now one shits on mages harder than ever and the other is a handicap.

Now, you either pick the OP's or lose. Winning games do not feel rewarding. Losing games feel more frustrating than ever.

The reason people make these complaint threads is because we love the game and we don't want to see it go down the drain.

165 Comments

AlwaysByMySideFeb 15, 2016107 votes

{quoted}

Cinderhulk patch. Remember those front-paged threads about how almost every champ was viable?

No, but I do remember the hundreds of threads about how it was bullshit that Sejuani could build full tank and 100-0 your carry while locking down your team.

HandheldBrandonFeb 15, 201623 votes

People mostly complained about Sejuani because of Cinderhulk and how much Raw damage Sejuani had. It however was pretty much only Sejuani that was out of line everyone else was strong but not strong enough to be a huge issue.

Nidalee SO NYAAAFeb 15, 201638 votes

Um Gragas was a huge issue. He was going as damge as Sej was. Top lane Shyvana was a issue too

YumaS2AstralFeb 15, 201614 votes

[{quoted}](name=Primal Huntress,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmgtuA1Y,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-02-15T22:25:02.261+0000)

Um was a huge issue. He was going as damge as Sej was. Top lane Shyvana was a issue too

Shyvana was a issue top lane due to her abusing the red smite + Cinderhulk. Once the red smite was nerfed, Shyvana stopped being an issue.

Hello I am BirdFeb 16, 20164 votes

Well yknow... Until devourer came along >.>

WadeWilson1337Feb 16, 20164 votes

Yes but its devourer, it is a strong scaling item but makes you quite weak early game. The item has drawbacks, learn to abuse them instead of cry about it and make it look like you were boosted to bronze IV.

Hello I am BirdFeb 16, 20165 votes

I'll have you know I was boosted to bronze 3! Not bronze 4 ;)

But for real, how was I crying about it? It makes shyvana super strong and if I'm not a champion that can counterjungle well, It's almost a fact that I'm gonna lose to a shyvana that bursts me with 4k hp.

And also, just because it makes her weak early game doesn't mean it doesn't make her strong come MID GAME. Not late game. I mean, she's also a monster late game but you get stacked by mid game.

Nameless VoiceFeb 15, 201616 votes

Gragas and Sej were strong, but they never felt completely "I've lost this game in champion select", at least to me.

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 16, 201617 votes

You probably felt like that because they were the two most banned champions in the game and never made it through champ select.

SaltyToplaneGoatFeb 16, 20164 votes

At leats they were only two. Right now there is more OP stuff than we have bans...

Mael broFeb 16, 20168 votes

Shyvana with summoner 11 summoner 12 was a damn gimmick. summoner 14 Hecarim was bullcrap he could half health any champ at level 2. Shyvana was retarded only with new reworked Sated Devourer in S5.

shyvFeb 15, 20169 votes

the only reason people complained about sejuani is because they were used to her being garbage.

AlwaysByMySideFeb 15, 201613 votes

[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmgtuA1Y,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-02-15T22:35:36.874+0000)

the only reason people complained about sejuani is because they were used to her being garbage.

I'm sure the 56%+ win rate had nothing to do with it.

Hot CousinFeb 15, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmgtuA1Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-15T21:37:27.584+0000)

No, but I do remember the hundreds of threads about how it was bullshit that Sejuani **could build full tank and 100-0 your carry ** while locking down your team.

Amumu Maokai Chogath DrMundo Malphite

OrangesilkFeb 16, 20169 votes

To be fair, Cho doesn't build full tank item 3027 item 3001 item 3116 are common items on him.

And if your carry got hit by a rupture while not being locked down by another CC, he deserved dying right then and there.

warpenguin555Feb 15, 201618 votes

[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FmgtuA1Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-02-15T21:37:27.584+0000)

No, but I do remember the hundreds of threads about how it was bullshit that Sejuani could build full tank and 100-0 your carry while locking down your team.

made by the ADC mains who tried to frontline

SalronFeb 15, 201646 votes

No, stop overglorifying the Cinderhulk meta The front page was filled with threads complaining about the item and it's hardest abusers ( Sejuani , Top lane summoner 11 Shyvana , Sion , etc.)

YCitizenSnipsYFeb 15, 20165 votes

you left off gragas and rek'sai.

Unstoppable MonkFeb 15, 201629 votes

As opposed to the front page being filled with threads complaining about item 3124 and Jax MasterYi XinZhao right now?

Sightless66Feb 16, 201611 votes

No one said it was better right now. It just wasn't better back then either. Contrary to OP's very selective memory, the Cinderhulk meta wasn't some wonderful time where everyone was happy and everything was viable. The boards were full of anger at the OP champions and claims that the game was dying and that Riot had their heads too far up their own asses to make good decisions, just like the boards always are. People bitched about everything they thought they couldn't play, just like they do now. Nothing has changed.

Biff ManlyFeb 16, 201618 votes

Salty assassin main?

checks username

Oh yeah.

AnidanFeb 16, 20162 votes

It's worth remembering that even if that's true, that doesn't necessarily make him wrong. The boards will filled with tons of complaints about the champions that were abusing it. Sej, Sion, Shyv, Gragas, Rek'sai (maybe more) in the jungle, Garen, Renekton, and a few more in top, tank supports abusing Cinderhulk as well, while using the smite for extra objective control (that wasn't the bad part, just part of the reasoning that helped the supports justify using it while abusing Cinderhulk).

I also distinctly remember Mages actually complaining harder than assassins, because many of the mages couldn't keep up with the absurd tankiness of the enemy's potentially 3-4 man frontline with the papier mâché cannon in the back trying their best to not get killed by the tank. Assassins could at least try to maneuver or flank the tanks and get that aforementioned cannon, but most mages can't reliably do that and get away with it due to their lower mobility, and even if they did get there, their damage was generally lower so they couldn't guarantee the kill, and they couldn't be a huge threat to the frontline with their damage, either.

yoniameFeb 16, 20162 votes

most mages are at a bad spot since the removal of dfg and mana pots

NuparuFeb 16, 20161 votes

He's a salty assassin main because he's saying that you guys have rose tinted glasses regarding a meta that was just as bad?

Okay then.

Biff ManlyFeb 16, 20162 votes

I'm saying that with a Yasuo quote as a name, he might enjoy metas where assassins are dominant a little more than ones where tanks are dominant.

Okay then?

T RexHasTinyArmsFeb 16, 20167 votes

I remember a lot of complaints, but I also remember a surprising amount of praise actually. Especially once it was middle of the meta before things started to really shift away from it. The worst problems were nerfed down (sej, sion synergy) and it was an oddly stable meta. Maybe after the most egregious parts of this meta get beat with a nerf bat we will see some things talking about how this is a good meta, but I don't see any currently.

ThryaleFeb 15, 201632 votes

Hi! you must be new here! But that's okay, you'll get used to how things work soon enough.

Joking aside, no, there has never been a time where the community did not complain about how imbalanced the game is. I've been here since September 2010, and even way back then players were whining about how 'X' champ was op, and how 'Y' skill was broken. It's simply the nature of a constantly changing game. There never will be true balance, and we don't truly want there to be true balance.

If you don't believe me, check out this video on the matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

AquariusGineFeb 15, 201611 votes

{quoted}

Hi! you must be new here! But that's okay, you'll get used to how things work soon enough.

Joking aside, no, there has never been a time where the community did not complain about how imbalanced the game is. I've been here since September 2010, and even way back then players were whining about how 'X' champ was op, and how 'Y' skill was broken. It's simply the nature of a constantly changing game. There never will be true balance, and we don't truly want there to be true balance.

If you don't believe me, check out this video on the matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

It wasn't truly balanced. Sejuani was really strong and in most games. But it was really fun to play those few patches.

ThryaleFeb 15, 20166 votes

ah, well that's different. I will agree tho, it's not incredibly fun to play atm, too snowbally. I really dislike thunderlords. It's ad ratio is way too high, should be more like 15% bonus ad and riot should increase the cd on it by at least 5 or 10 secs. Really sick of seeing it on ad champs. AD champs have over half of the ferocity tree to play with, and the fact that it's easier for them to apply thunderlords via strong AA's is really frustrating.

HandheldBrandonFeb 15, 20169 votes

It was a good video however in league of legends Champion B does not simply counter Champion A because Champion A could build around the weakness.

When it comes to balance actual champion balancing is only one aspect as is is items and how champions interact with them. Similar to how Blue Ezreal was always only okay but now that Armor is really weak and IBG is better and Blue Ezreal is one of the most dominant builds in the game despite Ezreal himself not really changing.

There is definitely some balance but there is alot of imbalance born of unnecessary changes that only serve to create drastic new problems until Riot eventually figures out that they had to simply correct the original imbalance in the first place to fix it.

MrWasjigFeb 16, 20162 votes

There is definitely some balance but there is alot of imbalance born of unnecessary changes that only serve to create drastic new problems until Riot eventually figures out that they had to simply correct the original imbalance in the first place to fix it.

While that all sounds simple in theory, past changes have shown that Riot have a massively ham handed approach to balance, often making changes to the symptoms rather than the core of a problem.

See the recent FQC changes, and the upcoming Sterak's changes.

Shroom JunkieFeb 16, 20164 votes

It was, but at the moment its extremely... - how do you put it?.. - fucked.

At least it used to have a sense of balance, now its just plain odd. Its like every week there's a new OP champ and one OP champ gets slightly barely nerfed and another one goes down the drain, and the fact towers are so squishy and minions being upgraded by levels just makes the game so snowbally, its decided at about 15-20 minutes with barely any room for comeback(though it is possible, I get one only once every maybe 10-20 games nowadays, whereas I would get them all the time back in early season 5).

XIII VanitasFeb 16, 201619 votes

Unpopular opinion incoming: don't read if you have your head up your ass, I warned you!

The current meta is perfectly fine. You can play whatever you want, both in the jungle and in lane, and you're still able to win if you're good at the game. The Cinderhulk meta was boring: too slow, with 40+ minutes game, and you were able to play only 1 strategy: teamfights.

Sure, there are some black sheeps in this meta (like Fiora , Udyr and TahmKench ), but you can ban them and play your game just fine. Proof of this is the fact that you don't even have a name for this meta: you can play warrior junglers, runic echoes junglers, cinderhulk junglers and devourer junglers and you have the same possibility to win with each and everyone of them. It is the jungle that dictates the speed of the meta and games are starting to last between 25 and 35 minutes because anything goes.

Supreme Senpai69Feb 16, 20164 votes

This is the only season I've played (I started right as season 5 ended so I played in that in-between phase.) So I have no idea how bad this season is compared to the old seasons, but isn't this called the Assassin Meta?

XIII VanitasFeb 16, 20161 votes

I've been playing since Season 4 and this is not an assassin meta. If it was, you would see only assassins mid, and sometimes top too. Instead we have a good variety of mages and assassins. The Cinderhulk meta was wrong because you were able to see only cinderhulk jungler and sometimes top laners too, who took smite and tp and spent at least 20 minutes of the game farming.

Critmaster GarenFeb 16, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I've been playing since Season 4 and this is not an assassin meta. If it was, you would see only assassins mid, and sometimes top too. Instead we have a good variety of mages and assassins. The Cinderhulk meta was wrong because you were able to see only cinderhulk jungler and sometimes top laners too, who took smite and tp and spent at least 20 minutes of the game farming.

this meta revolves around marksmen and burst. 2 to 3 adc on every team, and mostly burst mages and assassins mixed in to shut the opposing adc down.

and here is the thing. there was nothing wrong with people taking smite into top lane. and im saying that as someone who rather went with ignite into lane at the time.

having to pour gold into machete and jungle items, it was an early game disadvantage that could be heavily punished for more objective control later. it was actually a pretty big risk to take. if ive seen someone at lvl walk with smite into lane and building jungle items, id bully the hell out of him. ive never felt at a disadvantage against someone who used smite in top lane when i didnt. and i actually did never run smite in lane, even when it was popular. while it was gimmicky, it wasnt op.

whats more, it actially felt interesting. because at the time we had true summoner spell diversity in top lane. except for the actually broken and mandatory flash, summoner 12 summoner 14 summoner 11 felt all like equally viable chocies.

Mael broFeb 15, 201614 votes

Now, you either pick the OP's or lose.

wasn't that always in competitive?

PapaGreg21Feb 16, 201614 votes

The original cinderhulk meta was too broken because it was too strong, but there was a slightly nerfed cinderhulk meta that was actually perfect. Then there was a super nerfed cinderhulk meta with super nerfed tanks as well that just ruined everything. If Riot had stopped the nerf train about halfway through the process everyone would have been thrilled all season. This is nitpicking but yes you are correct in that it was the pinnacle of balance for League and everybody was on the boards all the time incredibly happy with things for the most part.

BastionKrossFeb 17, 20162 votes

That nerf train was bound for World's station, and Riot was prepared to run down every tank on the tracks. Tanky champs tend to foil flashier champs and their big plays, so they had to go.

It's also the reason why Lee's ult got mysteriously buffed around the same time; as if to encourage pros to use him and his esports friendly kit.

Nidalee SO NYAAAFeb 15, 201611 votes

Dude Sej had a 90% ban rate how was that balanced?

MelledoneusFeb 16, 20169 votes

Because she was the only ban-worthy champion...

TimewinderFeb 16, 20163 votes

it seems like nobody really remembers that the cinderhulk patch had its problems too. remember gragas and top lane shyvana? that shit was scary lmao

MelledoneusFeb 16, 20162 votes

At least you could build against them...

InHaruhiWeTrustFeb 17, 20162 votes

we remember, but compared to now that was balance made in heaven.

LemurKickFeb 15, 201611 votes

What are you smoking OP? There's never been a time where people on the boards weren't complaining.

Rabbid999Feb 16, 201611 votes

Winning games do not feel rewarding. Losing games feel more frustrating than ever.

This is very true.

Spizzle9000Feb 16, 20169 votes

Nah, I mostly remember threads about how shitty assassins were, how OP Vayne and Jinx were, and how bad pretty much everyone that wasn't a tank was in top and jungle.

Rogue RevenantFeb 16, 20166 votes

That is a hell of a pair of rose colored glasses you've got there. I remember a very large number of threads about issues during that particular meta.

Now I do think it would be fair to say that the number of threads during this meta shift has trumped the Cinderhulk patch EASILY but this was also a far larger shift so... yeah.

RikariFeb 15, 20162 votes

For a second there,I thought this was a clickbait sarcasm thread. Yes though,these were good times,even though champs like Evelynn were still not seen.

Nameless VoiceFeb 15, 20165 votes

I played Evelynn in that meta and found it to be a much nicer environment to play her in than most of the surrounding times. At least I wasn't against Lee Sin in every game for once.