Why does Tahm Kench have higher-than-average melee range?

Shroom Junkie··33 votes·4,673 views

Him and Morde are the 2 highest melee ranged champs in the game(minus upgraded AA's such as Wukong's Crushing Blow or Aatrox's ultimate), yet he also has an AA buff that scales with tankiness, and after landing 2 AA's and a Q(which is relatively easy to do, especially with the increased range), can eat an enemy dealing 32% max HP and removing them from the fight for 2 seconds(which can easily determine the tide, such as eating a tank meant to protect their ADC like Alistar or Braum and leaving them exposed), and a slow, or situational stun again that only takes 3 AA's(or 2 AA's, a Q, then wait for the Q CD which the passive won't wear off by that time).

Its like, I don't even care if he has all that stuff... well, yeah I do but I'm not gonna complain. But a big problem is that along with it, his passive upgrades most of his stuff and his passive is easily stacked by his high AA range. You just Q them, walk up, AA them twice and even if the slow wears off when you get there you'll have enough range to hit it twice and then eat them.

74 Comments

Hayaishi216 votes

The size of his tongue bro.

ViashinoWizard9 votes

Because his kit relies heavily on getting 3 stacks of An Acquired Taste on an opponent to be effective.

Shroom Junkie2 votes

{quoted}

Because his kit relies heavily on getting 3 stacks of An Acquired Taste on an opponent to be effective.

Exactly. But his kit is also heavily overloaded with damage, CC, peel, map control, etc. with the only thing lacking being mobility which he definitely does not need.

The Yetii Rider3 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. But his kit is also heavily overloaded with damage, CC, peel, map control, etc. with the only thing lacking being mobility which he definitely does not need.

That's the thing though. If Tahm had 175 range with his autos he would need a higher base MS in order to use Acquired Taste effectively, and since his W is basically a Skarner ult on a low cooldown, his MS needs to be terrible to prevent him from being overbearing.

They increased his range so they could lower his mobility. It has little to do with lore. Tahm Kench was made while Riot was in the middle of the juggernaut update, Garen has 200 auto range as well.

Only Play Darius9 votes

Because he is slow as shit.

Shroom Junkie3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cvQ2qfTQ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-09T00:14:19.422+0000)

Because he is slow as shit.

Then trade damage for more base MS, I really don't care, but when he's 1v1'ing me as an ADC at every stage of the game because I can't ever get away or kill him(or heck, half the time can't even hurt him), you know there's a problem .

Only Play Darius8 votes

First of all: If you know how to kite you shouldn't be losing to him 1v1 as an ADC.

Second: Why are you trying to 1v1 as an ADC? That's not how it works

Shroom Junkie2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cvQ2qfTQ,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T01:16:32.569+0000)

Second: Why are you trying to 1v1 as an ADC? That's now how it works

I never said I 1v1'd him. But he still can. Unless you're someone like Tristana or Corki its terribly hard to get away from Tahm, he has so much damage for how tanky he is and the fact he gets damage from being tanky, and obviously... he's tanky. Even AP Tahm is tanky with that damned shield.

First of all: If you know how to kite you shouldn't be losing to him 1v1 as an ADC.

... Did you really just say that? Like... I literally just said you can't get away from him... he just CC's you to fuck and kills you. Like I literally just said that... did you not read the entire post? Like did you just skim over it or what because that is horribly stupid advice especially in response to what I just posted...

Sammystorm1 votes

He is rather easy to avoid because everything except his q are short range.

duck077471 votes

{quoted}

Then trade damage for more base MS, I really don't care, but when he's** 1v1'ing me as an ADC** at every stage of the game because I can't ever get away or kill him(or heck, half the time can't even hurt him), you know there's a problem .

Yes you did say you'd 1v1 him.

And what adc are you playing? And why aren't you moving while you're attacking? Do you stand still and get hit by every Q?

Sivir - shield+ms Ashe - slow4days Vayne - hardest tahm counter Caitlyn - net Quinn - jump thingy Kogmaw - slow

Thats all the adc i can think of atm. Also, looking at your match history you use all champs that could do well vs tahm. So idk why you complaining.

Shroom Junkie2 votes

{quoted}

Yes you did say you'd 1v1 him.

I never said I had or would, where are you getting this?

And what adc are you playing? And why aren't you moving while you're attacking? Do you stand still and get hit by every Q?

Kind of can't when I'm slowed by 30-70%. He lands one Q on you and now you're open to being eaten easily by him walking up to you and slapping you and even if you do move his increased range will get you and he'll eat you.

Sivir - shield+ms Ashe - slow4days Vayne - hardest tahm counter Caitlyn - net Quinn - jump thingy Kogmaw - slow

Thats all the adc i can think of atm. Also, looking at your match history you use all champs that could do well vs tahm. So idk why you complaining.

Draven Jinx Twitch KogMaw

No escapes for them. Not to mention Tahm's Q is almost instantaneous, and while it is possible to spellshield the slow, there's also the chance you'll miss it and not, or possibly panic shield too soon.

Tahm basically Q's you, walks up to you as close as he can be, AA's you, you walk away, AA's you again because of his extended range, eats you immediately, you're now half health and the enemy ADC has a huge advantage over you. Obviously the support could help with a shield or maybe CC them, but unless its someone like Blitz, Soraka, or Thresh near you flaying him, he's still going to get those stacks and then eat you before someone can peel him off of you.

And Ashe can't really peel him off of her. He Q's her, which is a MUCH bigger slow(Rank 1 of Q is 5% less of a slow than Ashe's at level 16), walks up, does the same thing as everyone which is AA and then while they're walking away AA her again with the increased range, and eat her.

Tik1151 votes

Lets not forget, stunning with the Q doesn't consume his stacks

Can you imagine how much better the odds are if he had to choose between consuming the stacks on his Q or his W?

2Charmnot2Charm1 votes

{quoted} Draven Jinx Twitch KogMaw

No escapes for them. Not to mention Tahm's Q is almost instantaneous, and while it is possible to spellshield the slow, there's also the chance you'll miss it and not, or possibly panic shield too soon.

You need to learn to DODGE. I never have a problem dealing with the kench as jinx and if hes stupid enough to try to 1v1 a jinx he dies. Infact all 4 of those adc's you listed has their own form of self peel so wtf are you doing. This not the TahmKench being op this is you needing to learn too play the game, but seeing how you rather complain on the forums instead of getting better enjoy getting tongue lashed.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Carries U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cvQ2qfTQ,comment-id=0004000000000000000100000002,timestamp=2015-11-10T12:51:15.071+0000)

You need to learn to DODGE. I never have a problem dealing with the kench as jinx and if hes stupid enough to try to 1v1 a jinx he dies. Infact all 4 of those adc's you listed has their own form of self peel so wtf are you doing. This not the TahmKench being op this is you needing to learn too play the game, but seeing how you rather complain on the forums instead of getting better enjoy getting tongue lashed.

LOL

"You need to learn to DODGE." -Ahri Carries U 2k15

The Ahri main expects me to dodge every Tahm tongue? The Tahm tongue has a low mana cost of 50, while he has an early game base of 325+ mana, and a cooldown of 6 seconds meaning he can pretty much spam it harder than you spam your Q's and charms. If you can dodge everything and so can everyone in your elo, that means your main is obsolete and you would neither be in your elo nor main that champ.

So, you expect me to dodge every tongue Tahm throws out? He just spams it with its extremely fast projectile speed and you just expect me to dodge it every time? Ah, I see. Oh wait, no I don't. He hits ONE tongue and now he's walking up to you. The biggest you can do is throw Draven's "Stand Aside" or as Jinx her chompers, but Twitch only has a slow that only at the low levels is the same as Tahm's slow, and Tahm's scales a lot better, and Kog has his slow as well that is better than Twitch's but still not as strong as Tahm's, not to mention Tahm can walk out of it to get to him faster.

2Charmnot2Charm1 votes

{quoted}

LOL

"You need to learn to DODGE." -Ahri Carries U 2k15

The Ahri main expects me to dodge every Tahm tongue?

I never said anything about ahri, i was talking about adc's but go ahead keep coming up with more excuses because you fail. It's easy as fuck to dodge kench tongue even if you don't have a dash skill. Also if he misses a tongue that was time wasted on him trying to walk closer to you because he has to sit still too cast it, if he has mobi boots you should disable it with a range skillshot so he cant just walk upto you.

Incase you still don't understand anything i just said here is some last advice from Korea, "GET GOOD."

-Love a jinx/MF/ahri main- 2015

Abyssphere2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cvQ2qfTQ,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T01:16:32.569+0000)

First of all: If you know how to kite you shouldn't be losing to him 1v1 as an ADC.

Second: Why are you trying to 1v1 as an ADC? That's not how it works

His most popular role by far is support. ADCs should not be scared of 1v1ing supports.

Only Play Darius1 votes

First of all, ADC's shouldn't be able to reliably 1v1 ANYTHING. You need to trade something for having the best late game, best tower siege, and safest DPS in the entire roster. If Tahm is catching you out 1v1, you either need to ward better or tell your support to stop camping the enemy Yasuo and to come protect you.

Second, if Tahm is ever becoming a threat, you could treat him as you would a fed Darius and simply STAY AWAY FROM HIM since he has no way of forcing himself on you without burning flash. If you really want to make a point about supports killing ADC's 1v1 you're better off making a case for Zyra.

Zedex1 votes

Doesn't he just build items that give him movement speed anyways?

RPK9KM4K4A5 votes

I agree his auto range should be the same as Q range.

Makes no difference atm anyways.

Ariel the Cruel5 votes

such as eating a tank meant to protect their ADC like Alistar or Braum and leaving them exposed),

The Cow can just R out and/or Headbut him away, not really the best example.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cvQ2qfTQ,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-11-09T05:45:21.101+0000)

The Cow can just R out and/or Headbut him away, not really the best example.

What if he's already ulted? Kinda stuck then. Either way its more than just Alistar that was an example. Heck, it works for anyone protecting their carry whether its Shen or Mundo, he's getting them out of the picture and opening up an easy target.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Alistar and Janna protect carries by creating Space. That makes them a lot harder for Tahm to deal with. Alistar specifically also has the cleanse on his ult.

I wasn't disagreeing with your claim. I was just poking fun at you're choice of example. Since the cow actually does a lot better against Tahm than most other supports. (Morgana also makes Tahm's life pretty difficult.)

Zelnorack1 votes

Now, you're not wrong. Actually you'd be 100% right in a perfect world.

But this is not a perfect world. If Ali is selected, he's probably going to be the only engage on his team. So he has to dive right in and go "Moo!" and slap some people, knock up their carries, and ult to live, right?

Notice the end part of that. "Ult to live". Tanks, in this day and age, melt like a stick of butter thrown into a volcano if they don't have some sort of damage reduction built in. Ali would have to ult the instant he engaged. He couldn't wait till Tahm ate him, or he was CC'd. He'd have to ult straight away if he's engaging. Hell, even if he and his team is engaged upon he has to ult right away to do his job and knock their ADC out of the fight.

Besides, Ali would most likely end up just headbutting Tahm away before he got his 3rd stack on. Tahm would have to flash back in to get the 3rd, and then Ali would just ult the devour and counter-engage by flash-pulverizing.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Besides, Ali would most likely end up just headbutting Tahm away before he got his 3rd stack on.

I agree. Hence...

...R out AND/OR Headbut him away...

And while Ali can engage, Lee Sin accomplished his style of engage better. In terms of niche, he competes more with Braum than, say, Leona. THat's more of a play-style difference. If he's the team's engage, then he's most likely not protecting the ADC as per OP's example. If he's protecting the ADC, then there should be another source of engage and he makes Tahm's life miserable.

Penns4 votes

Have u seen his tongue? Thats why Kappa

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

Have u seen his tongue? Thats why Kappa

Its stupid they let lore interfere with gameplay. I'm all for lore but when they're specifically basing things off of it rather than setting the balance specifics beforehand... that's when its bad.

Urgonnalearn2day1 votes

{quoted}

Its stupid they let lore interfere with gameplay. I'm all for lore but when they're specifically basing things off of it rather than setting the balance specifics beforehand... that's when its bad.

It's not lore it's quality of gameplay. If you had to leg hump to melee on him no one would play him.

People need to stop asking for destructive nerfs out of spite.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

It's not lore it's quality of gameplay. If you had to leg hump to melee on him no one would play him.

People need to stop asking for destructive nerfs out of spite.

So you're saying everyone who's melee without a gap closer should have extra range? ... Um No?

Urgonnalearn2day1 votes

{quoted}

So you're saying everyone who's melee without a gap closer should have extra range? ... Um No?

When a core mechanic requires autos ... Um yes? He's already one of the slowest champs that need to melee.

I swear people on here just like ruining champions because God forbid anything beat them.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

When a core mechanic requires autos ... Um yes? He's already one of the slowest champs that need to melee.

I swear people on here just like ruining champions because God forbid anything beat them.

Tahm is already strong enough without stunning and eating everyone he wants. Making it a tad hard to actually kill someone even though you're tanky as shit and have a lot of damage is not going to ruin him.

TurquoiseYoshi4 votes

Or lower his damage. I don't mind his combo being simple, I mind his combo doing absurd damage for a support.

Spoofghoul2 votes

Really? but what about toplane Tahm or jungle Tahm. You want to gut 2 of his roles because you dislike playing vs support Tahm.

How about we nerf Sona just because

Zedex1 votes

How about we nerf Sona just because

they've already been doing that.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

He's still incredibly tanky, and his ult buffs up his AAs more when he gets the solo farm. Just lowering the W damage wouldn't really kill him that much.

Varalessia1 votes

Why do those lanes matter? Not to sound pessimistic but riot shows little concern for the champions other lanes, Shyvana Evelynn Mordekaiser

Partholonian2 votes

{quoted}

32% max HP

Not true -- literally. Because this damage is not true damage, it won't truly do that percentage or anywhere near it. Since he's unlikely to build penetration he'll probably do 20%, at most, to a squishy, less to someone with real resists.

He's not actually a damage threat unless you 1v2, kill the other person with 10 HP left and then expect Tahm to be 100% free. There are supports that ARE 100% free in that situation (and that's one of the things that make them unviable) but really nobody should expect to have a right to win 1v2s even if one of the 2 is a support.

Bronzoid1 votes

At least he's not ranged like Thresh

Shroom Junkie2 votes

{quoted}

At least he's not ranged like Thresh

Yep. Heck, even then Thresh only has 250 more range than him...

Jingerbeardman19 votes

250 more on attack range is huge... dont try to underplay it like it is nothing. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Westonbirt2 votes

ITS OVER TWICE AS MUCH

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

add that to a champ like Lucian with a short range for an ADC and they would be a LOT more frighting in lane. I think even Mordekaiser would be calling bulls*it.

Shroom Junkie2 votes

{quoted}

250 more on attack range is huge... dont try to underplay it like it is nothing. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

I never said it wasn't a lot but the fact that Thresh is supposed to be ranged and Tahm is supposedly "melee" yet for some reason there's only a 250 difference in range when the average difference is 425 in range(most ranged vs most melee).

The Fast1 votes

Yes, picking the highest range melee champion, and comparing him to one of the lowest range ranged people will create a shorter than normal gap. If you compare his range to the standard ADC, then the gap is 350. MAGIC.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Knight Kore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cvQ2qfTQ,comment-id=00070000000000020000,timestamp=2015-11-09T20:31:09.398+0000)

Yes, picking the highest range melee champion, and comparing him to one of the lowest range ranged people will create a shorter than normal gap. If you compare his range to the standard ADC, then the gap is 350. MAGIC.

Its still not 425. And Thresh is still a ranged.

The Fast1 votes

I never said he wasn't. The fact that the difference isn't the same isn't a bad thing. Melee champions should have variable ranges. It adds more depth to the game, and Tahm is most certainly a champion that wants it, due to how reliant he is on slow auto attacks.

Wyrmblade1 votes

I think his high melee range is cool and unique, the problem is that he also runs too fast and his Q is too easy to hit which makes him too much of a stat check.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

He has low movement speed... and no mobility... how is that too fast?

Manwalrus1 votes

Of all the things about tham to qq about you chose his auto range? Really? I've got to hand it to you though it's a breath of fresh air.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

Of all the things about tham to qq about you chose his auto range? Really? I've got to hand it to you though it's a breath of fresh air.

Exactly. Obviously Riot hasn't been listening to nerfing his damage, removing his CC would essentially remove his identity and remove damage anyway because of his Devour, so I figure at the very least they could nerf SOMETHING, and his range is a big thing.

Manwalrus1 votes

He has 50 more attack range than other melee champions "OH NO! EVERYONE HIDE! 200 ATTACK RANGE? WHAT IS THIS?" It's possibly the most minor part of his kit, it's only there for a thematic perspective because he attacks with his tongue and not his arms. Riot have also stated they feel tahm is too strong and he's on their list of champions to nerf soon along with the likes of kindred, just because they didn't hotfix gut his damage doesn't mean they "refuse" to make adjustments.

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