Looking at the data and the incoming damage items, I think Shen might need to be looked at.

Melledoneus··7 votes·1,091 views

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=ascend

Shen Support: 45.64%/.98% win/pick rate Shen Top: 48.26%/2.70% win/pick rate

Sporting one of the lowest win rates in both of the roles he has stats for (barring that one maniac who goes on-hit, Jungle Shen is pretty much dead), Shen is on a rapidly declining slope in his roles thanks to bruiser buffs, relic shield nerfs, and the heavy nerfs to his ultimate and abilities he received since his rework made him a lot squishier stat-wise in favor of aforementioned utility.

Is he in the absolute worst spot? Of course not. Gragas, Azir, and Ryze are suffering as well, but I cannot pretend that I know enough about those champions to address their issues. Sometimes it's also better that some champions with few weaknesses are kept a bit on the weaker side thanks to their oppressive nature in lane, though I won't go into detail about that. I am here to address a champion I know, so forgive me if it seems I am ignoring other needy champions (like Poppy).

Does Shen have reasons to be kept down in the meta? To be honest, I can see why he can be overbearing in organized play. Teams with high coordination can use an ultimate like Shen's to insane degrees of creativity and it can be difficult to deal with. However, he is suffering on live servers, even in Plat and above, because he just doesn't cut it anymore.

Is it just a one patch ordeal? Honestly, this has been building up for a while. Top lane has Conqueror and will soon have the likes of Atma's returning to add insult to injury, tank supports are only viable through their naturally bulky base stats and inherently oppressive kits (looking at you, Alistar), and junglers need sustain and certain mechanics to clear fast enough to keep up, especially with the new changes to EXP and scuttle crab. And with the advent of the changes allowing ADCs to be dealing true damage regularly (especially when a tank like Shen has among the lowest HP and armor values even among assassins and some mages, let alone tanks), it's no wonder that he won't be able to perform in his roles.

I project that Shen will suffer heavily over the next patch when the new bruiser and ADC items hit the Rift, and I suggest that some of the power removed from him during the rework be reinstated.

I do not advocate we buff his damage at all. He already can duel pretty well if he gets those empowered autos off.

I also do not advocate we buff his ultimate, since all that does is create more misery for us later because of pro play.

I believe the change that needs to be made is higher base stats. HP in particular. Shen, especially in a game with a growing amount of displacement abilities and burst tools, no longer can perform the expected role of a tank as well as his peers in the role. The likes of Sion, Ornn, and Malphite possess exceptional survival capabilities while having sizable windows of power and counterplay. I believe that buffing Shen's bulk to keep up with the new damage options will allow him to survive his lane a bit better, have a more smoothed out power curve, and it will not impact pro play as much because it does not add to his utility, which is his biggest pain point.

That's my two cents on the subject. Feel free to discuss and offer any constructive criticism where needed. And now, for our poll.

13 Comments

Teridax684 votes

My personal opinion on Shen's nerfs is that they kind of went about him the wrong way: sure, his ultimate is less effective, but there is now even more of a focus on observing the map at all times, and communicating constantly with teammates, to get the best shield out of the ult. I don't think his ult needs to be buffed either, but I'd rather it had been nerfed in a manner that made it easier for less organized teams to use.

As for Shen's base stats, I'm personally conflicted because, on one hand, I think Shen's model of low base tankiness, and high active defenses, is one I think should apply to all tanks. Tankiness is far too passive overall, which leads to the perception that it's skill-inexpressive, and to some extent it is, since many tanky champions tend to have very similar and low mastery curves. I feel tanks as a class could benefit from having their base durability, as well as their durability from items, toned down in favor of having much more gameplay and power placed into whichever innate defenses they have.

On the other hand, I totally agree that it's not really fair for Shen to be the only tank that follows this model, so either every tank should lose some base stats in exchange for stronger active defenses, or no-one should. Because changing one champion is obviously an easier task than changing dozens at a time, it might be simpler overall to buff Shen's base stats to proper levels, nerf his active defenses accordingly, and then potentially bring him back if there ever does happen to be a class-wide shift towards more active defenses. Considering how low Shen's win rate is overall, it may just be possible to purely buff his bases without even having to worry too much about compensatory nerfs, bar maybe at the pro level.

NoPaxt2 votes

Can we just get old Shen back?

Pandemic Punch2 votes

Revert

DW Diana1 votes

I think with the introduction of Atma's which builds perfectly into him he'll be fine.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

hes still op.... what nerfs? he needs more nerfs.

Melledoneus1 votes

May I ask for what reason? Usually when I think about a champion in terms of their balance rather than the feel of playing against them, I consider how much power they actually have rather than how they make me feel.

For what reason does it seem that Shen is overpowered and still requires nerfs? Is it his abilities? The reliability of his tools? The damage he can pump out? The defensive tools he has? I am very curious and would like to know.

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

{quoted}

May I ask for what reason? Usually when I think about a champion in terms of their balance rather than the feel of playing against them, I consider how much power they actually have rather than how they make me feel.

For what reason does it seem that Shen is overpowered and still requires nerfs? Is it his abilities? The reliability of his tools? The damage he can pump out? The defensive tools he has? I am very curious and would like to know.

he tanks easy 1vs5, he can get out by tping or dashing, he does massive damage, he has massive sustain due to tank itemization, hes incredibly opressive as well.

its no fun fighting a shen at all :/ hes especially broken on support lane, shen never was a very popular champion though, so that would explain why hes rarely seen.

imho every tank should be nerfed damage wise, it simply doesn't make sense they can go in 1vs3 and dish out damage the equal of 3 champions as well [sg-ahri-1]

D357R0Y3R1 votes

then you remember that shen used to be the biggest atma abuser in 2012

kek

Melledoneus1 votes

Well, I did consider that possibility, but the overall HP from items has been reduced, meaning that Atma's is far more effective on champions with higher base stats and large natural HP pools, which Shen does not. Shen relies heavily on items providing him that HP to patch up his lack of tankiness and also to help keep up with other tanks by utilizing his active defenses in the form of his passive shield. If Atma's provided HP as well, this item would be a staple item in Shen's build.

However, when it is released, I cannot lie and say I won't slap that sucker in my Shen build and give it a whirl. Who knows? I could be wrong. But judging from past experience, you can't afford to build items like that on a champion like Shen who needs every stat he can get.

Neamean1 votes

I don't think that it is right that you compare him to Sion Ornn and Malphite who are vanguard. He is like one of the only two solo lane warden and we see what they are doing to Poppy.

I think Riot need to re-evaluate warden as a whole so they won't be hard stuck as a support or psudo-support like Shen and Poppy.

I just want to play Taric Top
NocNocWhosThere1 votes

I think that Shen in his current state does not require a buff nor a nerf. Prevailing champs like irelia, fiora and darius are the only ones that can outclass him with short or long trades; only because they deal consistent true damage. He actually goes toe to toe with other oppressors, mages as well as cheese pick top laners. He is built around his playmaking kit. The only thing that needs to be looked at is the true damage on those said champs when they take conqueror. I have seen a 3 full item shen getting destroyed by a two item irelia only with a couple of dashes. Maybe a look at his defense stat scaling (particularly when trading with a true damage dealer) can get some love.

I do believe that with the current shift in meta, he will come back up in a team oriented gameplay. Since moving around map is huge with the fast paced games.

Friendly Ram1 votes

I'd love if life tap could be added back onto the q, either on the cast or on the first empowered aa.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

personally, i think shen himself will be using the new atmas lol

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