Taliyah - Why do Champions Have Ultimates that Deal no Damage?

The Yetii Rider··2 votes·3,617 views

An ultimate skill in a champion's kit should be the most powerful, intense aspect of their kit. Activating it should feel like the defining moment of a champion's entire game, and that's why they (usually) have such long cooldowns.

Champions like Diana and Blitzcrank feel worse for me to play specifically because their ultimates are on such a short cooldown that they don't feel any different from a normal skill.

Now, there are some champions who have ultimates that make sense for why they deal no damage. Soraka's Wish, for example, fulfills her champion thematic perfectly, and that thematic is not dealing damage. Supports get a pass here, they have utility instead of damage and that utility is usually pretty defining (Wild Growth and Monsoon are equally thematic and defining).

On the other hand, there are champions who have mobility ultimates like Taliyah that suffer because of it. Specifically, Twisted Fate is the best example. Twisted Fate is an assassin who has 2 skills that deal no damage (his Stacked Deck can deal damage at the right time, but it requires you to build it up on other targets first, making Twisted Fate's Destiny a much weaker effect if you're using it out of your base, why is that fair?) Because of this, Twisted Fate has always been shackled to Lich Bane. Always. The champion doesn't have enough burst in his kit, so he has to buy an item that gives him more base damage, and he's been completely balanced around that. Why? That locks him in to a specific build, promotes the idea of assassins being completely feast or famine, and more importantly, if his kit doesn't have enough damage in it, he should gain more damage, he shouldn't be chained to an item that makes up for his imbalance.

Tahm Kench is another example. Tahm Kench gains damage on all his abilities and auto attacks (which is not thematic, not cool or intense, and pretty uninteractive as a whole for your opponent) in exchange for a team-transporting effect that no one uses. Devour could be Tahm's ult instead, very very easily. It's a suppression effect, which is huge, it saves your allies which is his highest point in the game, and it would allow him to have a real passive, a real cooldown on his suppression/ally saving effect to make it more valuable and less frustrating, and a W that's more appropriate for the laning phase.

And now Taliyah. Cool, she gains an instant speed mobility tool. She already has one on her passive, but this one is faster. And in exchange...either her kit is going to have damage forced into it or her bases aren't going to be enough and she will be shackled to Luden's Echo or Spellblade.

Can someone please explain to me why these effects have to be in the ultimate slot? Aurelion Sol's map mobility is totally fine, and it promotes him roaming even though in combat he's actually pretty immobile. It has a real cooldown because of the stacks, but it also doesn't detract from his ultimate which has actual damage so he isn't forced into any cheesy builds.

Or you could just give the mobility damage, like Pantheon or Shyvana.

17 Comments

SaltyKracka13 votes

Because utility and mobility are powerful.

Imortal Dragon2 votes

Point in case brofresco's use of her ult in his Mid game

WoonStruck4 votes

Brofresco is bad and plays against other bads.

Imortal Dragon1 votes

No you think the other team is bad but in reality he is so good the the other team cannot even compete :) but ha its not his fault they cant keep up with dat skill or fabulous hair

Billy VoHagen1 votes

I'm pretty sure he plays against his own subscribers. He can choose to have bad people on the enemy team.

Imortal Dragon1 votes

Pretty sure thats not the case lol ;)

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

Because utility and mobility are powerful.

I agree, but she isn't a support (I don't think). In a solo lane, she needs damage to be able to deal with her opponent (especially someone like Zed or Yasuo). She can't just run away and wait for her jungler to gank the lane forever.

Igotlazy2 votes

The game isn't completely revolved around laning phase though. Taliyah comes with an INCREDIBLY powerful ganking tool as it not only gets her into the fight, but blocks off escape routes for the enemy. Keep in mind that this wall she creates spans 3000-6000 units (depending on Rank). Something of that size can block off entire SECTIONS of the map.

She provides enough CC and disruption to be useful in her own right. She isn't a Syndra, she isn't a Lux, she's a CC heavy zoning mage with some decent damage and mobility sprinkled in.

ViashinoWizard4 votes

It's not just a mobility tool, it also alters terrain, which is incredibly powerful.

Imortal Dragon3 votes

Blocking off escape routes, trapping in turret, chase potential, escape route, and just splitting the enemy in half

The Yetii Rider2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imortal Dragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cnfBVtE7,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-05-04T00:21:03.155+0000)

Blocking off escape routes, trapping in turret, chase potential, escape route, and just splitting the enemy in half

It's definitely powerful utility, but if she's a mid laner she still needs to be able to kill people. If she has no damage in her kit she's just going to build Echo and Lich Bane, and then her base damages are going to get tuned around her buying those items so she will never be able to buy anything else.

SaltyKracka2 votes

Or maybe they're already tuned around the expectation that she's going to build those items!

BWONNNNNN!

Imortal Dragon1 votes

Again watch how brofresco played her mid you can get an idea for how to use the champion from that. I see her more as a support than anything with her W able to knock enemies wherever you want, and the E would slow the enemies and prevent dashing. And again the escape route blocker. I can see Support Taliya be played better than Mid

NotSpecialDude2 votes

She is supposed to be a control mage as apposed to a bursty one. Her abilities are supposed to grind you down and keep her relatively safe keeping her in lane longer assuming her opponent needs to get in close range and doesn't have strong mobility.

It mixes up the meta for mid lane.

I bet though she will be a jg/support champ though. If only so she can be on the same team as a yasuo. No logical reason.

Mecha MaIphite3 votes

Twisted Fate is an assassin who has 2 skills that deal no damage

...

i don't know where to begin

Athenes Lulu2 votes

If anything TwistedFate ult is extremely powerful.

If it's not just for his semi-global teleport on a "shorter cooldown" then it would be simply revealing where enemies are. Very long CD.

He's not a support.

Raiku Kawisa1 votes

Shyvana's ult is so wonky that it only 'sometimes' deals dmg and knockbacks -.-*

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