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Removal of minion block would elevate the level of gameplay in this game

Khristophoros··4 votes·734 views

I was looking at this clip of a double kill I got because in the moment I thought it was so good. Upon reviewing the video it seems kinda sloppy.

Here it is: https://puu.sh/B0Z4g/a111250ab4.webm

Like why actually did Xayah step on my chomper? There was no actual reason she should have. 100% straight up, it's because of minion block and pathfinding.

There have also been times I've been on the other end of this, and sometimes it can cost the entire game. Like laning against a Draven and you die to him because of minion block because he's able to punish minor positioning errors so hard. And he just snowballs so hard off early kills too. It can literally cost you the game if your other lanes don't snowball. Even in this clip I was currently behind at that moment and this double kill gave me a fighting chance in the game. It didn't completely turn around the disadvantage I was in but I honestly don't think I would have won that game if Xayah had not died there. Like overall it was that little inch of a comeback I needed to eventually become relevant soon enough to help my team make a full comeback later in the game. Any less gold and it wouldn't have happened.

Sometimes when this happens to me, I think, ok, it was my mistake for not considering minion block when I was moving around in the lane. But this clip got me thinking, now that I've reviewed a replay of myself actually getting a kill because of minion block and pathfinding, I do not think it's something that you should expect players to play around. It just happens and they punish the positioning. It's not a skill differentiating thing, it's just random garbage. And I don't think generally players notice when the kill is due to this unless their opponent got obviously boxed in and couldn't move. I didn't really notice until I looked at the clip.

In conclusion I think minion block mostly serves to disrupt the micro decisions players make without adding any skill differentiation, so it actually adds an effectively random variable to execution and diminishes skill differentiation.

7 Comments

5050BS3 votes

They need to revert the minions back to S4 when they had smaller hit boxes

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I kind of agree. I think that the basic purpose of minion block could be preserved without keeping all the bullshit parts of it.

For example, if you could push your way through allied minions, but suffer a slow from it. It would make sense for them to move out of your way, they're YOUR minions after all. In order to preserve/prevent wave manipulation it would have to be made so that you dont interrupt those minions' auto-attacks though. Maybe they would get to keep attacking their target even if you push them out of range of it. I dunno. Just something to prevent unintended play patterns.

Khristophoros1 votes

Keep in mind that a lot of the problem is actually pathfinding. Like the concept of enemy minions "getting in the way" is good on paper but with the actual pathfinding algorithm in the game it hurts skill differentiation. Look at exactly how Xayah moves in my clip. The player probably clicked in a direct line backwards rather than towards the chomper, but the champion ended up moving towards the chomper, even though the obvious way to go (to us humans) is to go around the other side of the minions to avoid the chompers. However, the pathfinding algorithm makes the champion go the shortest possible path so it picked the side where the chomper was to move around those minions.

If pathfinding can somehow be fixed then sure, minion collision is fine. But currently the pathfinding algorithm causes your champion to move in ways that are not what you intend.

But at the same time, a "smarter" pathfinding algorithm could hurt skill differentiation too. What if it avoided chompers and other visible traps? Then players would barely have to pay attention to those traps while moving around in combat. Therefore I believe the best solution is to not have minion collision at all so that the player determines where they move rather than pathfinding either being too dumb or too smart.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I concur. Pathfinding is cruelly terrible. It's good that you can see both the benefits and costs of the feature though. Nice to see that you're looking at the issue from both sides.

Khristophoros1 votes

Although maybe I misunderstood your post. It seems like you're saying only allied minions should have the slow and enemy minions should still block. I think the slow being on both or only on enemy minions would be feasible. Then you don't need to have pathfinding around minions. Then moving through enemy minions is a choice that has a drawback and pathfinding never forcibly changes your decision.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I was saying that enemy minions should still block you. As they should be helping their team's champions.

Ally minions could be walked through freely if needed, but it might be more balanced to make them simply slow an ally passing through them.

Khristophoros1 votes

To me enemy minions actually blocking is too egregious to keep because it creates situations like the one in my clip. Xayah only stepped on the trap due to pathfinding around enemy minions. It forcibly changed the player's decision and caused a totally avoidable death. And like I said I think if pathfinding was smarter it would remove a lot of the decision making too because then a player not paying attention to the trap would have the same result as a player who is actually paying attention to it.

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