Should you refuse an item if it'll send you over 40-45% CDR?

darkdill·Jan 17, 2017·1 votes·491 views

Say you've already got 40% CDR, but an Abyssal Scepter might help you survive a Fizz. Good idea or bad idea?

29 Comments

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20173 votes

if theres a fizz why don't you already have abyssal?

But yes you should get it if you need it. Don't worry about the CDR. You can also get mana items on manaless champs and anyone who says that riven doesn't use blue buff is an idiot.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJan 17, 20171 votes

yes what he said... and not only a item 3001 but a item 3102 and a item 3157 and maybe a item 3116

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20171 votes

if you need all 4 youre probably doing something strange lol (or playing galio)

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJan 17, 20171 votes

fizz dont need cs to kill you he just blows you up ... lol

and dear god how much did i hate tank fizz top lane

item 3157 item 3068 item 3025

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20171 votes

oh, toplane tanky fizz?

then all you need is pushing items, fuck him.

item 3748 item 3068 item 3153 or whatever just push and leave, he cant do anything. He'll be trying to get the minions to your tower for another 10 minutes lol

AlienPrimateJan 17, 20171 votes

Why would anyone build rylai's on galio? His slow is already stronger than it. Also, spirit visage far out classes banshee on him because the bonus healing is insane with his W. Late game with my build I heal for ~750 with it on 7 second cd.

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20171 votes

because rylais is cheap and causes his ult to hold ppl in place longer. Might not be the best option but it is there if you want to do that for some reason. It also lets you use E for slows which is a lot easier to land with less risk if you want to save mana or whatever. In general its just a good ap option for its cost

Spirit visage does not outclass banshee's viel, apples and oranges. banshees is a strategic choice that could be the difference between galio being a target to be chunked and disabled or galio being a tank that needs to be taken seriously.

AlienPrimateJan 17, 20171 votes

As a tank with by far the highest late game sustain in the game I want people to waste their abilities on me. I'm not going to buy something that deters the enemies from doing so. If you get chunked on Galio by anything you are doing something wrong to begin with so banshee's veil isn't going to save you. My goal later in the game on Galio is to literally eat skill shots for my carries until the opportunity arrises to engage or counter engage so the spell shield is meaningless.

The only time veil should ever be a choice is if you are playing him as a carry with 600 ap instead of a tank with 300 ap.

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20171 votes

what happens when they can afford to waste abilities on you though

Xerath Gragas Jhin Thresh Fiora

There are teams that literally thrive off offing the tank and how you deal with the first few seconds of harass will change whether or not you can end the game or merely be a useless meat wall who gets off at his own sustain.

AlienPrimateJan 17, 20171 votes

Start this at 22 minutes if you don't want to watch the whole thing and you will see why I don't care about blocking 1 ability. The shield can be amazing if you are scared of a little poke but when I can do this it doesn't come close to being as useful as 25% increased healing.

https://youtu.be/3yMEFAZCB-g

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20171 votes

healing will not stop the enemy team from CCing you immediately after you enter their range which will delay your plays on a team that wants to get that fight done many times quicker than it was done here and there are teams against which you are going to want to do this faster or your team is going to get slaughtered.

WoonStruckJan 17, 20171 votes

Stats, slow on E to catch up for ult, slow after ult to more reliably land the rest of his kit.

IncarcerationJan 17, 20171 votes

lmao Riven gets 45% cdr without blue buff.

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20171 votes

not 15 minutes in she doesnt

IncarcerationJan 17, 20171 votes

What riven gets blue buff at 15 minutes?

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20172 votes

doesn't matter, the point is that people make a lot of incorrect assumptions like "manaless champs get no benefit from blue buff"

darkdillJan 17, 20171 votes

Because Lux with an Abyssal will still get 100-0'd by Fizz.

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20171 votes

in lux's case yes, you want zhonyas, but that's the price you pay for playing artillery mage vs an assassin that is somehow managing to reach you. There is nothing wrong with this, absolutely nothing at all

darkdillJan 17, 20171 votes

And a good Fizz somehow has trouble reaching people? I think not.

ScissorsNstuffJan 17, 20171 votes

who said he did?

Mafia LeBlancJan 17, 20171 votes

Depends what else you're building. I take 10 CDR Runes + Morello's, so I choose between Abyss or Zhonya's. It's rarely efficient to buy both, since they're relatively low AP per slot, you're better off with rabadons, void, roa, rylai's, etc.

As the other topic says, vs fizz, Zhonya's is the better choice so you're not screwed if you're in that 2 mile ult radius, but Neg cloak into Abyssal is a better build path.

99.999% of the time, overcapping cdr isn't worth it.

Variks the LoyalJan 17, 20171 votes

In your situation, I'd just take Banshee's Veil.

Ark SorcererJan 17, 20171 votes

Abyssal Scepter, gives AP, you are a mage of sorts. Depends on everything else. If you are a range mage where you cannot get the enemy in your circle to deal the additional 10% magic damage (New passive) then perhaps not. If Fizz is that big of a threat and you need the magic res, then yes. It depends on the context of the game. You have to make that call if you need the magic res. Look at everything the item provides and determine if the cost if worth what you are getting and see if there is another item that could help out more. Just analyze the situation. That's all I can say.

cuddlykitten4Jan 17, 20171 votes

You'd have to provide way more information than just that man. What's going on in each specific game has a huge impact on what items you will need. Such as what champ you are, which team has gold lead, what towers and objectives have been taken by whom, what spells the enemies are good at landing, if they spam abilities or hold them, if they group or lone hero wander, so forth and so on. Not trying to be a jerk, I just really don't know what the true answer would be with the given information. I'd say probably that or a item 3102 , but like I said, it's hard to tell for sure on such a broad spectrum. Best advice I can give you, next time you wonder, just do it and see what happens. You'll either win or lose the game, those are the only two outcomes, regardless of which you can just que back up and try again after.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJan 17, 20171 votes

yes and no... is there another item you can get that will give you protection you need and not waste gold on stats?

like maybe an item with HP and AP

item 3027 item 3116 item 3151

or would a pure defensive item be best ?

item 3026

PennsJan 17, 20171 votes

Depends on what items you already have but Abyssal is kind of bad now, should probably just get a item 1057 , its only 20 mr less than Abyssal (Ill say it again, broken lel)

EschetonJan 17, 20171 votes

It's a waste of gold technically. But if you are on 40% already, it's likely that gold doesn't matter so much any more. And it's not like there are a lot of late game(expensive) tanky (MR) items...

Rock MDJan 17, 20171 votes

You rarely get the items for 40% CDR but you should go over if you have to.

But if you're that far into the game Abyssal probably is NOT a good choice of item. At that point you're better off with a Banshee's, usually.

99% of the cases listed start with you going Abyssal first or second item and then Zhonya's later.

WoonStruckJan 17, 20171 votes

CDR is such a low-value part of an item that it doesn't matter that you go over the CDR cap unless its a large portion of the item's cost item 3110 item 3025 item 3165 item 3078 item 3071 .