Maybe this is just a low elo thing, but even then I don't recall every third game having the bot and support troll picking fighters and tanks for a duo melee botlane. We're not talking about blind pick either, this is draft.
I don't know what changed to make so many suddenly want to try this.
JimTheSnail3 votesRiot where talking about how they wanted this to happen. They wanted all sorts of champions to be played in different roles say a APC instead of an ADC. Nothing to get mad or upset over.
SoundChaosDebug2 votesRiot where talking about how they wanted this to happen. They wanted all sorts of champions to be played in different roles say a APC instead of an ADC. Nothing to get mad or upset over.
Don't be too adventurous there, they said they imagine a time frame where marksman is not require in bot lane, rito still enforces metas even though they claim not to enforce.
JimTheSnail1 votesNot true they enforce meta if you are playing ranked not unranked. Once you take that amazing rengar ivern botlane in ranked riot will ban you for "trolling". However you do it in regualrs they wont care. So just make sure you don't do anything like that in ranked and you will be fine.
Risen291 votesRiot hasnt changed anything yet that would make that kind of comp feasible. They only talked about one day making those changes. We are still in a game design where scaling marksmen dominate the mid game and make it near impossible to win the late game without one. Taking fighters and tanks duo bot lane, when they dont even scale with attack speed, is at this point nothing but the height of troll picking.
If you play a game with trolls like that you are going to lose most of the time no matter how hard you can carry. Not having a marksman is crippling.
Risen291 votesDouble post
JimTheSnail3 votesI now understand the point of this post was to target and dehumanize people for picking non Marksmen champs in the Bot role. I shall stop posting on this and just leave it be. I have also noticed that you do not leave open the option of reasoning. That is fine. Have a good day sir :3
JimTheSnail2 votesAzir, Anivia, Ryze all do more DMG to enemies you know why? Through a xerath in there. Put 2-3 dummies next to eachother see how much dmg the mages do VS an ADC. Now stop causing trouble on the forums and justs top
Risen291 votesNothing you said makes any sense.
Azir, Anivia, and Ryze do more damage compared to whom?
And how does your pointless statement disprove anything I said?
Do you really think AoE damage has anything to do with a discussion on single target DPS?
You don't understand how to formulate a basic logical argument. Then you get huffy when your claims are called out for the nonsense they are.
JimTheSnail1 votesIsn't that assuming you build attack speed on them? No you would still build regular build IMO. If you go attack speed Riven or attack speed Olaf (those are just random champs picked out of my head) that is troll. The point would be to get tanky enough to shut down the Marksmen so there late game is LATE. But yes I agree it is still ADC meta currently. But that is supposed to change in 8.11
Risen291 votesIsn't that assuming you build attack speed on them?
It's not assuming - They didn't build attack speed.
In fact, they are picking champions to go botlane that can't even effectively be built as melee attack speed. Like illaoi or blitzcrank ADC.
The point would be to get tanky enough to shut down the Marksmen so there late game is LATE. But yes I agree it is still ADC meta currently. But that is supposed to change in 8.11
Even then, it's not going to change enough to make an adc-less team viable.
Any viable team that relied on a different botlane to crush the enemy adc would still have to keep an ADC pocketed away in a different lane as mid-late game insurance. Like kindred jungle, jhin mid, vayne top, or whatever you think you can get away with.
The idea that you're going to bully botlane with a juggernaut and tank is pretty ridiculous to begin with. Those are the champions that get bullied by range. If you're going to take anything botlane, it would be a mage and assassin because they at least have ways of killing the enemy ADC early and not getting kited out.
JimTheSnail1 votesThe point is i dont think cause you take them in bot that you go Attack Speed lol xD thats like saying you go Jhin mid so you go AP xD LOL
Risen291 votesThe point is i dont think cause you take them in bot that you go Attack Speed lol
Then you don't understand what the role of an ADC is. An ADC, by definition, is suppose to carry the game by their auto attack damage. Meaning, they always build attack speed. The reason the ADC has the highest damage potential in the game is because they scale well off their auto attacks. By definition, you cannot have any champion function in the role of an ADC unless they have great scaling ability on their auto attacks. That is why even Jhin was designed to get bonus damage off attack speed, to keep him viable as an ADC. But Graves hasn't been able to be played as an ADC for a long time because he lacks this scaling.
Now, the ADC of the team doesn't necessarily have to be placed in the bot lane only. You can put ADCs in other positions. But it's not optimal usually to do so.
To pick tanks and juggernauts into the bot/support position, when your team has no ADC elsewhere, is pure troll and your team will lose unless you happen to be a lot better than the level of opponents you are facing.
Pika Fox2 votesTo fix your statement; the role of the ADC isnt to be the thing that deals mass damage, its to be able to take dragon/baron/towers quickly and safely. Which is why ziggs can fill the role of the adc effectively
Risen291 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPNE5AX7,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-05-16T16:12:09.791+0000)
To fix your statement; the role of the ADC isnt to be the thing that deals mass damage, its to be able to take dragon/baron/towers quickly and safely.
Wrong. ADCs are the teamfight winners in the mid to late game. Only an ADC can dish out tank melting damage from behind the safety of their own tanks and supports.
No team will ever function at a competitive level without an adc on the team for late game teamfighting.
Which is why ziggs can fill the role of the adc effectively
Wrong again. The only example of a ziggs being picked in the bottom position in pro play was done with a corki in the support role - they had a marksman for their adc in the team comp still, he was just in a different position. Ziggs can never adc, by definition, because he doesn't scale with ad auto attacks.
No team can function at a high level without a genuine marksman because of all the other things they are needed for.
Ziggs will only tickle tanks/juggernauts/tanky fighters. They will run over any team that doesn't have an ADC to melt them. That's the deal breaker right there. The fact that Ziggs can't dragon or baron well is only minor compared to that.
Because the purpose of the ADC is not to just to siege towers. If that were the case then mages would have replaced ADCs a long time ago, after they were changed to do increased damage to towers based on their AP, because of their stronger early and mid game.
Pika Fox1 votesADCs arent that great at teamfighting, and many DPS mages can fill their role nicely. A team has to invest a lot of resources just so an adc can stay alive and function. The only real reason adcs are even necessary for teamfights is because you need a split of phys and magic damage, and most tanks deal magic, and outside of assassins mid laners are AP based.
But the role of the adc has nothing inherently to do with teamfights. Its because death timers are short and objectives are tanky. The faster you can take them the more likely you are to win, as you need to win fewer teamfights to end the game.
Even though mages do more damage to towers, they cant beat the damage and safety of an ADC for taking them. And that matters. (Outside of ziggs, who can be an effective apc)
Risen291 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPNE5AX7,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-16T17:59:54.241+0000)
ADCs arent that great at teamfighting, and many DPS mages can fill their role nicely.
You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Mages don't scale with attack speed and crit, the means don't even exist for them to match adcs in damage per second. Mages by definition have poor sustained damage compared to ADCs because they rely on their abilities for damage.
If mages had the DPS output anywhere close to an ADC there would be no reason to ever play an ADC with all their downsides.
Pika Fox1 votesCass and Ryze both dish out comparable damage to ADCs, as does Azir. The idea that they dont have AS therefore they dont have DPS is absurd.
Mages dont deal as much damage to towers in general, so ADCs fill that role. Thats literally it. ADCs are better at objective taking.
Risen291 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPNE5AX7,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-16T19:16:21.389+0000)
Cass and Ryze both dish out comparable damage to ADCs, as does Azir. The idea that they dont have AS therefore they dont have DPS is absurd.
Your claim is absurdly ignorant.
An ADC can easily get 1400 DPS against a target dummy. Ryze gets about 550 DPS even with a fully stacked seraphs and rod, using a typical pro build. And Ryze is even unique in his ability to spam his damaging abilities with resets. Other mages are going to be significantly less DPS.
The defnining characteristic of a mage is that they give up DPS for burst damage. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion_classes/Mage Tanks are listed there as the counter to mages for a reason. But tanks don't counter ADCs. The basic logic of that is escaping you. Tanks would not be the counter to mages if mages could output DPS anywhere near an ADC.
Azir was listed as a marksman for his secondary class. He's the only mage to actually scale with attack speed and be able to deal increased damage with every auto attack based on having more AP. So the comparison to Azir only proves my point that the ability to scale up your auto attack damage is essential to output high DPS.
But, even then Azir cannot compete with a marksman. He will never be able to deliver the sustained auto attacks that a marksman can because all the enemy has to do is move out of range of his soldiers. Yeah, he can reposition his soldiers, but it's on a long cooldown. Under most battle conditions Azir won't even reach half the DPS of a marksman. Only if you take the completely unrealistic scenario of continously spawning soldiers, to the max of 6, around the target dummy, with constant auto attacking, can you approach ADC levels of damage - but in a real game that will never happen.
So, Azir is not comparable to a marksman in real conditions, even though his secondary role is listed as a marksman, which disproves your claim that pure mages can compete with marksmen. When even a mage/marksmen hybrid can't compete with full marksmen.
But even if Azir did do DPS comparable to a marksmen, your claim would still be disproven on the basis that Azir is a secondary marksmen who scales his auto attack power up like a marksman. Proving what I originally said about needing that to be an ADC.
Mages dont deal as much damage to towers in general, so ADCs fill that role. Thats literally it. ADCs are better at objective taking.
You are contradicting yourself. Either mages deal DPS comparable to an ADC or they don't. Or do you not realize that DPS is what allows you to take down towers and baron quickly?
You can't claim ADCs are better at taking objectives without admitting they do more DPS.
Pika Fox1 votesLet me know when spells work on towers. Your last part is so off the mark its hilarious.
DPS mages are a thing. Not all mages are full on burst mages. Even your comments about azir are laughable because youre assuming an adc is going to be able to stand there auto attacking constantly themselves (theyre not).
Risen291 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPNE5AX7,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-16T21:57:57.773+0000)
Let me know when spells work on towers. Your last part is so off the mark its hilarious.
DPS mages are a thing. Not all mages are full on burst mages. Even your comments about azir are laughable because youre assuming an adc is going to be able to stand there auto attacking constantly themselves (theyre not).
Logical fallacy, argument by assertion. You are merely repeating what you already said, but repeating it doesn't make it true.
I gave you real data and reasoned argumentation that disproved your claims. You have neither disproved what I posted, nor offered up anything new to support your original claim.
Pika Fox1 votesYour claims that mages cant DPS because they dont deal as much damage to towers is fallacious, as you cant use spells on towers.
Your statement that ryze cant do good damage doesnt hold up, as his DPS is rather potent. Yes, it doesnt hold up in an extended period of time, but non tanks and even some full tanks would be dead from him going ham
Cass is still cass. Yes, she deals ADC damage.
Again, Azir does ADC damage. Him needing to reposition his soldiers mid fight isnt an argument, as an ADC isnt going to be autoing all fight either (aka why lethal tempo is the worst keystone in the game)
Risen291 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPNE5AX7,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-17T04:00:03.409+0000)
- Your claims that mages cant DPS because they dont deal as much damage to towers is fallacious, as you cant use spells on towers.
Irrelevant, because the issue in contention is whether or not ADCs are the best at killing other tanky players, which is why they are needed on teams.
You're guilty of commiting the logical fallacy of Red Herring - changing the subject to avoid addressing the real issue. You made claims you can't back up, such as claiming that the only reason ADCs are wanted for teamfights is to mix in physical damage. That is an outright lie. ADCs are needed to melt tanky enemies that mages and assassins will do nothing against. And to do it from the safety of range, which melees that scale with crit/AS can't provide.
Yes, it doesnt hold up in an extended period of time,
Then that settles it, you just admitted I was right. Mages don't have the sustained damage of an ADC.
That's why the wiki lists tanks as the counter to mages. They can survive mage burst and kill them. Same goes for juggernauts and some tanky divers if they build magic resist.
- Cass is still cass. Yes, she deals ADC damage.
Logical fallacy. Argument by assertion. Merely claiming it doesn't make it true. You were wrong about Ryze. Go try to get data and realize you were wrong.
- Again, Azir does ADC damage.
Logical fallacy, irrelevant conclusion. Whether or not Azir is theoretically capable of outputting ADC level DPS under ideal conditions (conditions that will never be met) is irrelevant to proving or disproving the issue at hand (can mages replace ADCs) for reasons I already gave you.
Which also makes you guilty of the logical fallacy, argument by assertion. You are merely repeating your claim, thinking that establishes it's truth, rather than dealing with the arguments and data I put forth that disproved your claim.
Here's a copy/paste:
Azir doesn't support your claim that mages can replace marksmen in a teamfight because Azir doesn't function like a mage. He is the only mage/marksmen hybrid by design.
Him needing to reposition his soldiers mid fight isnt an argument, as an ADC isnt going to be autoing all fight either
A blatant lie, for three reasons (Which I already explained, but will go into more detail on now):
JimTheSnail1 votesIt is insane to post on this thread. No matter what you say or show he will not believe you. He is an OTP so you cannot expect him to know many more mechanics in any other lane nor for any other champion.
It is fine though let the thread die and maybe so will his rude demeanor in time.
Pika Fox2 votesAgreed. Im pretty sure hes never played LoL. "Look at all these deeps adcs can do if you just sit there and let them auto you all day but against mages enemies suddenly have enough of a brain to not stand still ergo im right!" Might as well say AD raka does more damage with that argument...
Bijeesny1 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cPNE5AX7,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-05-16T16:12:09.791+0000)
To fix your statement; the role of the ADC isnt to be the thing that deals mass damage, its to be able to take dragon/baron/towers quickly and safely. Which is why ziggs can fill the role of the adc effectively
Ziggs was meta for a very short amount of time. And he was taken just because he can melt towers, and as far as I remeber, he was weak at the time on mid lane.
JimTheSnail1 votesThat is the role of a marksmen. In league it is considered bot so im sorry i will call it its actual name. APC, Tank, ETC. THE ROLE OF BOT IS NOT FORCED TO BE MARKSMEN xD
Risen291 votesThat is the role of a marksmen. In league it is considered bot so im sorry i will call it its actual name. APC, Tank, ETC. THE ROLE OF BOT IS NOT FORCED TO BE MARKSMEN xD
Click on the "bottom" icon in champion select and see what options pop up.
Oh wait, what's this, they are all marksmen? Amazing. How does that work?
Marksmen are in the bottom position for a reason. If you get the bot position you are expected to be the adc for the team.
Although you can theoretically place an adc in another position, if your team has no other adc you have no business troll picking a tank into the commonly designated adc position.
I now understand the point of this post was to target and dehumanize people for picking non Marksmen champs in the Bot role.
You're a lunatic if you think talking about the meta is dehumanizing. You're probably one of those people that calls everything racist for no reason too.
HalcyonDweller1 votesPeople are experimenting. If they're doing it in normals then leave them be. They can do fun experiments if they want to.
Also, it's not a fucking troll pick if they are trying to win. It's only a troll pick if they are doing it for the express purpose of ruining the game. Stop misusing "troll" to describe things you personally don't like.
Risen291 votesAlso, it's not a fucking troll pick if they are trying to win. It's only a troll pick if they are doing it for the express purpose of ruining the game. Stop misusing "troll" to describe things you personally don't like.
"Trying to win" is not the same as having "intent to win".
Someone is troll picking when they don't care if they lose, they probably even expect to lose, because they pick blatantly bad roles or builds for their champion. They might actively try to play towards winning once they are in game, but that doesn't mean they picked with the intention or expectation of winning.
HalcyonDweller1 votesPeople can pick whatever they want and still try to win.
Just because they don't do things the way that you think is best does not mean that they are not trying to win.
I've seen top laners split push when our whole team was begging them to join and help teamfight and our whole team was frustrated they weren't helping teamfight, but y'know what? They carried that fucking game by backdooring. Just because we do not like our teammates' choices does not mean that they are trolling.
Bijeesny1 votesPeople are experimenting. If they're doing it in normals then leave them be. They can do fun experiments if they want to.
Also, it's not a fucking troll pick if they are trying to win. It's only a troll pick if they are doing it for the express purpose of ruining the game. Stop misusing "troll" to describe things you personally don't like.
So if i take full attack speed nunu on mid but trying to win im not trolling?
HalcyonDweller1 votesDepends on what you're against and if you genuinely believe you can win with that.
Bijeesny1 votesDepends on what you're against and if you genuinely believe you can win with that.
My comment supposed to be a joke but whatever xD I guees I'm bad at making jokes hehe On a serious note, I can kinda understand both sides of this situation. Me and my friend played full crit gragas and yasuo bot against ezreal and sona. We won our lane, but after laning phase, we miserably lost. While yea, we tried to win, we werent able to do jack shit later cuz we didn't have adc nor supp. We had our fun, but idk if our teammates had fun aswell. Some of them were a little bit upset aswell. And we played with players who had 'trollish' picks, and not gonna lie I was a little bit upset in those games.
So my point is that no matter how hard you try to win with those picks, I don't think you will win a lot, and those kind of things can make players mad probably. try to look from both perspectives and you'll see why is OP frustrated.
HalcyonDweller1 votesOh I absolutely see both sides of it. And I also know that sometimes people genuinely troll. But the OP here has a habit of calling things they don't like "trolling" even when said things aren't trolling.
If the post had been reasonable, or if they had been willing to acknowledge that their stance is an opinion not a fact, then I'd have been more understanding.
Bijeesny2 votesOh I absolutely see both sides of it. And I also know that sometimes people genuinely troll. But the OP here has a habit of calling things they don't like "trolling" even when said things aren't trolling.
If the post had been reasonable, or if they had been willing to acknowledge that their stance is an opinion not a fact, then I'd have been more understanding.
Even if he acknowledged it as an opinion, people would still bash him for that, so it's not like it's making any difference. But you have a point.
xYandere1 votesMaybe this is just a low elo thing, but even then I don't recall every third game having the bot and support troll picking fighters and tanks for a duo melee botlane. We're not talking about blind pick either, this is draft.
I don't know what changed to make so many suddenly want to try this.
[EDITED BY MODERATION] Just cause the current meta for botlane is [ADC] and [SUP] doesn't mean it's the only choice. In fact, both roles didn't even exist in season one. It came to life because people kept changing their playstyle over and over. Specially for [SUP], considering people back then died a lot when champions like TF and Phanteon were across the whole map. [SUP] Role was made to give stability against such foes, but on today's current community is sorta useless given it works mostly on competent [ADC]s that know what they doing, not with the likes of you given how badly you look down at other people's choice of playstyle. Heck, have you considered what a [SUP]'s role entails at? It's ether crowd control(Stun, root, slow, etc), damage control(heal, shields, etc), Tanking(Decoy) or even [DPS] to soften them up for the team player to get the kill. In short, any champion can be used as a support player as long as their partner is competent enough to understand that and make use of it. But considering your lack of intellect, It's quite the opposite in your case. But hey, what ever floats your boat right?
Always remember, just cause a lot of people prefer to play the same way you do doesn't mean everyone else does. As far as im concerned, bot lane could be a [CC] Player teamed up with a [Mage] or a tank. Countless possibility for synergy can happen. It just takes a lot of practice and knowledge to pull off though. And some like to put it to practice in real games like ranked to see how other's react to said stimulus. Most of them don't sadly, they lack imagination by tons.
Risen291 votesYou pounded out many words on the keyboard, yet said almost nothing of substance.
The one weak point you tried to make has already been disproven in several posts before yours. I'll just copy/paste them for you, since you don't seem willing to actually read the thread before furiously facerolling your keyboard:
Any viable team that relied on a different botlane to crush the enemy adc would still have to keep an ADC pocketed away in a different lane as mid-late game insurance. Like kindred jungle, jhin mid, vayne top, or whatever you think you can get away with.
Now, the ADC of the team doesn't necessarily have to be placed in the bot lane only. You can put ADCs in other positions. But it's not optimal usually to do so.
To pick tanks and juggernauts into the bot/support position, when your team has no ADC elsewhere, is pure troll and your team will lose unless you happen to be a lot better than the level of opponents you are facing.
Click on the "bottom" icon in champion select and see what options pop up.
Oh wait, what's this, they are all marksmen? Amazing. How does that work?
Marksmen are in the bottom position for a reason. If you get the bot position you are expected to be the adc for the team.
Although you can theoretically place an adc in another position, if your team has no other adc you have no business troll picking a tank into the commonly designated adc position.
xYandere1 votesRisen291 votesBut that doesn't mean they are a necessity
Just claiming it doesn't make it true.
You won't find a single pro game without an adc. That proves their necessity.
- The position of the champion is irrelevant.
Your point is irrelevant. I already addressed it in my last post. Go back and read it.
xYandere1 votesJust claiming it doesn't make it true.
You won't find a single pro game without an adc. That proves their necessity.
Your point is irrelevant. I already addressed it in my last post. Go back and read it.
Just cause professional players prefer to pick said role doesn't mean they are a necessity. It's just their preference in playstyle. Nothing more, nothing less. So if said players change to full juggernaut botlane, then what? It's a very stupid thing to mention a professional's play as a standard for the game given most of them start of just like us and are also one of the many players out there. And lastly, considering any champion with the exception of Soraka (Since she can't jungle) can be played in almost any role I should be the one who says that your point is the one Irrelevant here Risen29. The location where players are placed is basically nothing but preference in their playstyle. Back from the old Lol ranked system, [ADC] and [SUP] were on top lane and middle lane sometimes. In short, anything can happen. Just up to the players.
Risen291 votesJust cause professional players prefer to pick said role doesn't mean they are a necessity.
You don't have a clue what you're talking about. They get paid to win. They abuse whatever is the strongest while they can.
Objectively you can test this to find out you're wrong - Go into practice tool and see how many mages can pump out the raw DPS numbers of a typical marksman. Go ahead, we'll wait.
JimTheSnail1 votesYou went from asking why people are picking "troll bots" (off meta isn't troll you just are being rude). To arguing with everyone on everything???? This isn't a discussion anymore it is an excuse to argue with others on stupid stuff. Yet you are not open to debate you are only going to argue and not be open to change in thought. Why would you post on the boards asking a question just to argue with everyone who posts on it rather then try to reason or understand?
Risen291 votesNothing you said attempts to dispute the truth of anything I said. Your response is meaningless drivel.
4 Step Cadence1 votesI don't see an issue with it. After all, I'm the one they have to fight. Not my problem if the enemy bot lane wants to throw the game for their team. Free win is a free win.
5050BS1 votesIts because with Pyke Riot has said "Screw meta"
JimTheSnail1 votesADC: APC: Vayne Anivia Cait Xerath
Your logic is that ADC champs do more OVERALL damage to champions. That is easily proven false.
YOU AND ONLY YOU put ONE singular dummy to the test. You tested all champions full combos to find out if ADC champs or APC champs did more dmg. OFC ADC champs did more.
That is an unrealistic scenario. Most the time the enemy will build armor over MR and you will have a crit ADC not a pen ADC. So say 300 armor 100 MR on a tank (this does not include bruisers). APC champs do AMAZING in team fights for 2 AMAZING reasons. 1. They do a fuck ton of burst dmg. 2. 90% of the time they will have a lot of AOE attacks.
Now against 1 target an ADC will do more dmg then a APC. True but put 2 more dummies down and in a realistic scenario a APC will have CC a ADC will not. So odds of that ADC winning a 2v1 (on equal grounds not a "well if they are fed" kind of scenario) your ADC wont live. But like Anivia she ults walls and gets her Q out. That is just a basic combo. And eh by 27 min not fed an Anivia will have ROA Seraphs and Haunting Guise. An ADC around the same 2 items and a half.
It takes about double 27 min (around 50 min) to be able to be full build with pot. That is realistic. So your "100% CRIT ADC OPOP NEW META SOLO CARRY 1v9 BUILD" prob isn't going to be a reality in any real game unless it gets that late.
So go do the testing tell me who does more? Because im to lazy to test it since odds are based off of personal experience of not being an OTP and playing other roles that odds are a mage SHOULD ALWAYS out damage an ADC unless
Yes the may end up with the most DMG to objectives in the game hbecause remember that unrealistic scenario of a person holding still not attacking and not running away? Well sadly it is 100% that way for TOWERS BARON AND DRAGONS. They attack but there damage is sub par once you get BORK and a crit item with zeal.
Is that the argument you wanted me to post for you?
Risen291 votesYour logic is that ADC champs do more OVERALL damage to champions. That is easily proven false.
Logical fallacy, argument by assertion.
Merely stating something doesn't make it true. I gave you data that proved what I said is true, and you haven't even attempted to disprove it. Even though you claim it's easy to do so.
That is an unrealistic scenario. Most the time the enemy will build armor over MR and you will have a crit ADC not a pen ADC.
Irrelevent, the conclusion remains the same regardless of how much MR and Armor a tank has. Assuming both are in equal proportions the ADC always wins in damage dealt.
There's a reason that tanks are listed in the wiki as a counter to mages - because pen items are are poor against tanks. A tank with 300 MR will laugh at a mage that has full magic pen, but a 300 armor tank will be melted by an ADC with only crit and no armor pen. The ADC can add a last whisper in if they want to but they often don't feel the need, because the raw damage they can output per second is so far above what a mage can hope to do with abilities alone.
APC champs do AMAZING in team fights for 2 AMAZING reasons.
Logical fallacy. Irrelevant conclusion. Whether or not what you say is true is irrelevant to disproving my point.
The issue in contention is not whether APCs do good in teamfights, but whether they can fulfill the role of an ADC.
Spoiler: They can't.
Now against 1 target an ADC will do more dmg then a APC.
/Thread
Thank you for admitting what I said all along is true.
All your other keyboard flailing is irrelevant; because you're trying to argue that APCs are good in teamfights as a general statement when that was never the issue in dispute.
So go do the testing tell me who does more? Because im to lazy to test it
I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you. You, lazy? Surely someone who has such a deep understanding of the game's classes and mechanics must have thoroughly studied and researched all this already. It's not like I have to set you strait on the most basic facts of LoL, such as what makes ADCs different from mages.
Revali1 votesA long time ago double melee botlane used to actually be the meta.
Risen291 votesA long time ago double melee botlane used to actually be the meta.
Depends on how long ago you're talking about. Stuff that happened right after the game released can't really be taken seriously as it was a time of learning what works and what doesn't. They did things that aren't actually smart just because they didn't know better yet.
If you're talking about the first LoL tournaments, it wasn't a double melee bot - but a melee and support bot, with the adc mid. But they still had an ADC on the team. It didn't take very long to shift to an adc and support bot when that started winning.