I'd probably still be a Zyra main if they hadn't deformed her Q and replaced her passive...

DiveAlive·Jan 16, 2020·3 votes·2,595 views

That chick was my bottom bish 4 real.

-Q stronger, more satisfying, and longer range -fun and impactful passive -individual plants more impactful

Best of all no forced playstyle of aiming for random spawning plants, it just doesn't feel good, especially compared to her old passive, haven't touched her in years...

I really don't understand why her hard/late carry potential was sacrificed for a cheesy bot bully gimmick that falls off pretty quick when she used to be a proper mage that could supp and mid equally like Vel/Brand. Imo even her old kit was more than unique enough.

Haven't said this in a long time but, please revert Zyra.

17 Comments

TseisonJan 16, 20204 votes

I agree with you! [sg-janna] personally she’s in need of a kit adjustment . Definitely an increase to plant durability such as more health. Her ultimate should have its damage increased.

I’ve always seen her ultimate to be a reverse to Neekos ultimate in a way? Just minus some things. But yeah, she just needs some touch ups.

HawtJan 16, 20203 votes

She should be changed back into a mage instead of a support. I don't see her ever being used as support. Her support kit is highly outdated. If changed back to a mage, her current kit is outclass by other mages. Neeko is an upgraded version of Zyra in terms of damage.

IllabetheJan 22, 20201 votes

Not even close lmfao. Her ult by far is superior to Neeko's, and her plants make he one of the best Dark Harvest users in the game. She also has one of the most decent auto attack ranges in the game, making item 3100 viable.

The only thing is...... everyone's not building these things. They are building some 49% meta crap which is underperforming and not even the best runes.

HawtJan 23, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Not even close lmfao. Her ult by far is superior to Neeko's, and her plants make he one of the best Dark Harvest users in the game. She also has one of the most decent auto attack ranges in the game, making viable.

The only thing is...... everyone's not building these things. They are building some 49% meta crap which is underperforming and not even the best runes.

That's good to hear. Now add me to your friend list .

[sg-syndra]

Posui GartJan 16, 20201 votes

-fun and impactful passive

Excuse me? Even Kogmaw has better passive, at least because he can't miss it. And its still shit. Most "die to use" passives are shit, only Karthus is ok because he can actually do something in it, including uninterruptible ult

-individual plants more impactful

Even more than now? I don't know, losing 200 hp to kill a plant is already painful at lanephase. Its a plant, they are supposed to win by numbers, plant shouldnt 1v1 a champion

IllabetheJan 22, 20201 votes

What's funny is..... sometimes right NOW they do, depending on how you place them. Set up seedlings behind someone, rather than on top of them, and start an ult engage. They can kill the champion before the champ can even reach them. I've had some games where 1-2 plants literally killed someone from 100% hp too, just because I'm not using weak E plants; I'm using long range Q plants.

Pika310Jan 16, 20201 votes

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww..... You actually liked Zyra's old passive? It was decidedly literally the worst part of her kit. Worthless unless she died, on a champ designed to be ultra safe. Very poor damage, I don't remember it even having an AP scaling, it very very very rarely "punished" players for all-inning her. Very long charge time, very slow wind-up time, very slow thin projectile, enemies would frequently be out range before she could even utilize her passive. Reworking her passive was the best buff they could've given her.

Zyra's Q isn't meant to be "strong" or "satisfying," it's meant to summon plants & nothing more. As it is, they already increased its range, at least in terms of how close it needs to be to seeds to grow them. Q is a 1-point skill and leveling it last is her highest winrate.

As far back as I know, Zyra has never been a viable mid-laner, even on release. Rito quickly changed their approach to her to match the playerbase's playstyle of her as a support (something Rito almost never does today.) In fact, it wasn't until semi-recently that Rito has been caving in to the misguided & unrealistic demands of a tiny few players that want to troll-pick her into midlane, where she has never been viable. Adjusting her scalings, adding a "seed reset on minion-kill" that ultimately all came at the tradeoff cost of just nerfing support Zyra, aka her only viable position; all for the failed attempt at getting her into the mid lane.

How hilariously ass-backwards that somebody is demanding Zyra be reverted; under the guise of trying to push mid-Zyra; when her current iteration is matter-of-factly the most mid-centric & mid-"viable" her kit has ever been in her patch history. The logic of this thread is backwards & the voiced goal contradicts the ~~suggestions~~ demands. No. Zyra should not be pushed for mid, it hasn't worked & it can't work. Her "seed reset" needs to be removed & her scalings need to be traded for higher bases; in other words she needs to be balanced as a support, because she is a support.

I do agree that her plants should be more durable, specifically against dots. They die instantly to Fire Cape, an item that I never see bought except for specifically against Zyra. One item shouldn't make a champion useless & an armor item especially shouldn't be making a magic-damage champion useless. Strongly effective? Yes. Useless? No.

Sincerely - A Mastery 7 Zyra

IllabetheJan 22, 20201 votes

Her old passive had flat damage up to 600 True damage. It was basically a way to win a lost fight. No AP scaling.

The rest of your post is complete BS. She's a viable mid, viable jung, and viable top.

ChortleJan 22, 20201 votes

I played her extensively both before and after her rework. Zyra mid has always been a fringe pick because of how immobile she is. Her old Q shape was better for farming waves though.

Her new passive is significantly better than her old one. The whole reason she was reworked was because the passive was terrible and her plant mage theme wasn't being fully realized.

"Aiming for random spawning plants" is only an issue at lvl 1, any other time they are welcomed additions to your W seeds. Smart Zyra's can use their passive seeds in addition to their Ws to completely cut off enemies from fights. Old Zyra didn't have this option since her seeds were extremely limited. If current Zyra sets up at dragon before the enemy team does, her team has a significant advantage thanks to her passive seeds. Overall spawning an army of plants feels vastly superior to the 2 MAYBE 3 you could pull off with old Zyra.

I initially HATED the rework. I stopped playing League for over a year because of it. I mained Zyra mid and played her like a burst assassin. That play style was nerfed pretty hard with the rework so I understand how it's a rough transition. Coming back to the game I realized how much better off Zyra is in bot lane and how the rework gave her the added utility she sorely needed while adding to her character's overall theme.

Zyra is in a really good place in the meta right now as well. Just keep away from the hooking champs and you have a pretty decent shot [slayer-jinx-wink]

IllabetheJan 22, 20201 votes

Her problem isn't immobility. It's the fact most players are meta trolls who think the only way to build her is item 3151 item 3116 item 3089 item 3165 item 3135 or something similar. Her kit's been balanced around these items.

What do pro players do when a kit is balanced around a specific set of items? They begin playing with other items to pare those results.

Try playing her with item 3907 item 3285 item 3100 as your core sometime. The damage is actually higher, you gain pressure to objectives, and you actually build in some peel. It also puts CDR in the build, whereas the Bot lane meta build has almost none.

Rylai's slow on spells hasn't been potent since its Season 7 Nerf, and most people playing now are building around it. Liandry's is only useful versus specific kits (mainly tanks) when your goal is to burst mage. Yet people still core them on Zyra. If they didn't, she'd easily be a 54% champion slotted for a nerf.

(I'm noticing on stat sites a few people are actually playing her Jungle or DH support, but it's rare. Less than .1% rare. And, they aren't picking the right runes by and large. For some reason, they are building Comet and trying to focus around proccing plants with E. DH by far is stronger and more reliable. The sample size just isn't there, and when it is, they are building the wrong Domination runes, and the wrong sorcery runes (Many are just going Domination/Inspiration, which is a joke)

ChortleJan 22, 20202 votes

{quoted}

Her problem isn't immobility.

Immobility has always been her biggest issue. She has no escape from assassins which is why she isn't played mid as much.

Dark Harvest is indeed extremely strong on Zyra, I agree. Her items are very match up dependent though. item 3116 is game changing for controlling Darius Tryndamere Garen and is a cheap purchase at 2600g. item 3151 pairs nicely with Rylai's and is 100% needed for tankier comps item 3165 gives magic pen which is the best stat for Zyra (also fuck you Soraka ) item 3089 is EXTREMELY costly. As support you are better off with other items unless you are stacking Mejai's. item 3135 gives more magic pen if your enemies are building MR item 3905 this item grants you more control over engages and can help you ward safely while also giving you more MS item 3157 get this if the enemy zed is using his ult on you every fight

item 3100 I don't really think this item is worth tbh. Zyra is too squishy to be in auto range for too long. Unless you are playing jungle Zyra, I wouldn't recommend this item. item 3285 This item gives Zyra all the cdr she could ever want if she's using CDR runes in conjunction. Extremely useful in that regard and can be rushed first item item 3907 would be good against squishy comps or if your comp is hyper aggressive. Still niche imo.

IllabetheJan 23, 20201 votes

Rylai's is NOT significant enough slow to slow ANY of those champions (Maybe you need to play more; 20% vs a Garen/Tryn with item 3046 does NOTHING but cancel out some of their move speed boost, and Ghost more than mitigates it. Furthermore, Zyra's E has a stronger slow, so it gets pre-empted.

Liandry's is NOT needed. What is needed is a Void Staff, and the ability to peel and hit several times.

But you're going to argue forever, because you're stuck in an old elo.

ChortleJan 23, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Rylai's is NOT significant enough slow to slow ANY of those champions (Maybe you need to play more; 20% vs a Garen/Tryn with does NOTHING but cancel out some of their move speed boost, and Ghost more than mitigates it. Furthermore, Zyra's E has a stronger slow, so it gets pre-empted.

Liandry's is NOT needed. What is needed is a Void Staff, and the ability to peel and hit several times.

But you're going to argue forever, because you're stuck in an old elo.

I listed several items outside the "traditional" build.

It's okay to like other items for fun, casual builds, but there's a reason why high elo Zyra mains favor item 3116 item 3151

Chances are your "secret op" build for Zyra with item 3907 item 3285 item 3100 isn't common because it's actually bad against good players. It's also quite a costly build for a support character. None of those items help Zyra's team other than increasing her burst which is easily mitigated by your enemies building MR. Higher rank players will abuse her fragility that is exacerbated by your build's lack of defensive items and her immobility.

Low elo Zyra gets away building only for damage. The higher you go, the more you have to change your build to suit the match ups and cover your team's weaknesses.

IllabetheJan 23, 20201 votes

I am high elo.

Like any mage, positioning and peel is more important than HP. And objective taking. It's amazing what a spell spammer with a Lich Bane can do to a turret, or how fast you can erase a Draven chasing you when he rounds a bush, you E him, and Lich bane proc him, bursting him faster than he can life steal.

Mobility is less fragile than immobile high HP.

ChortleJan 23, 20201 votes

{quoted}

I am high elo.

No challenger Zyra mains suggest item 3100 because her AP ratios just aren't that good. She scales better with magic pen and utility items that compliment her high base damages.

From what I can tell, you are a jungle Zyra player and I can actually see lich bane being worthwhile in that role. Your jungle clears and objective pressure would be a lot more effective with the spellblade proc.

From a support perspective I can't see myself ever building item 3100 . As a support, you don't need to be pressuring objectives with lich bane procs because your jungler and ADC should be doing more than enough damage. Assisting your teammates with item 3116 item 3905 is far more beneficial imo.

{quoted}

Mobility is less fragile than immobile high HP.

I agree which is why I grab item 3905 if I need the extra mobility and engage control.

IllabetheJan 22, 20201 votes

I've played her extensively in both and this version is FAR stronger than the last. Sorry.

P.S.

-Current Q's edges have a 175 range longer effective range than old. (The core range is shorter) -Suicide bombing is "so fun." -Individual plants lasted longer, but did less damage, and was in a meta where EVERY pet had HP bars, so this wasn't a Zyra Exclusive nerf; Malhazar and Yorick were also hit by this nerf

-She has higher late game carry potential than ever right now, because she pairs perfectly with Dark Harvest. I can 1 shot an entire team late game with her.....

-She can Jungle..... Top...... Mid..... Support successfully right now. The only thing is: people just don't CHOOSE to. They prefer Yasuo/Zed/Talon/Kat mid and have more or less shelved all mid mages except on rare occasions. They don't think of her as a jungler, even though she's one of the safest and fastest junglers in the game. They don't think of her as a top laner...... because who thinks to run mages vs a lane that often builds item 3065