Boards›Gameplay

Janna is at a 20% pickrate and 53% winrate

Elohaven··5 votes·634 views

Compared to Vayne in Patch 8.1, this is equally as bad except Janna is still increasing.

Here are my ideas to nerf Janna:

  • Increase the W CD to 14/12/10/9/8 seconds.
  • Increase mana cost by 30 or decrease range from 550 to 500

The issue is that with W Janna is such a braindead playstyle that you get a free 60 or 240(E max or W max Janna) every 5-6 seconds(CDR). It's free point-and-click harass that makes Janna oppressive with comet and she can't be traded with due to the MS debuff and her E. There's no interaction. It's free harass by her and she can keep doing this until she feels like going in and offering her ADC 40 free AD.

Either way, her W is the main problem as it creates this early advantage of poke. Either make her take a risk of retrieving more damage or getting picked off or increase its mana with its CD. It should be a utility tool.

If two out of the three suggestions seem overbearing, a pick amongst the three looks good as well.

(I also hope Janna gets a VGU)

27 Comments

Ahristocats7 votes

Average win rate does not matter on an easy mode champ unless the win rate goes to 59% like during ardent meta and ivern meta and pre season Sona

Janna has no issues

Tahm kench braum taric are the issues if you look at lcs

AirKingNeo1 votes

both can be issues y'know

Who Fed Ru1 votes

Easy mode champs are a issue themsellf.

Every champion should at least need some skill to perform well on it.

Dasdi963 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cFrOHNAm,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-03-17T23:58:12.923+0000)

Easy mode champs are a issue themsellf.

Every champion should at least need some skill to perform well on it.

That is true, the amount of skill you need to do decent on Janna is next to 0. There is even the whole "boosted d5 janna 1 trick who can't play anything else" meme dedicated to this champion.

Who Fed Ru3 votes

nothing worse than those Gold V 0 LP Janna Lulu Soraka mains who suddenly play on a level not even worth of high bronze when you put them on another role.

Orange Caramel1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Who Fed Ru,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cFrOHNAm,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-18T00:17:01.981+0000)

nothing worse than those Gold V 0 LP Janna Lulu Soraka mains who suddenly play on a level not even worth of high bronze when you put them on another role.

why would they be put on another role if they like playing support? Support is the least picked role, there needs to be more support mains, not people who discourage them by saying these champs take no skill.

Who Fed Ru1 votes

Riot can fix that by making those champions actually take skill, and not leave them in a state of 15% pick- and 54% winrate and call it fine all season. Especially on Janna they have a hard on. Was that champ ever out of the top 5 winrates for more than 2 months?

People would actually play that role more often too then for other reasons than just easy elo.

Thresh Braum are some supports we need more of.

Ahristocats2 votes

why is it an issue? why every champ should at least need some skill?

as long as an easy mode champ does not do more than a champion that needs skill there is no issue

And a first time Janna cannot do more than a dedicated Tahm kench Braum and taric main

Who Fed Ru1 votes

If there are champions that you can just play without having to show any form of skill expression, then that defeats the whole point of the Ranking system.

A first time Janna might not be able to do more than a Braum and Taric main, but at least as much as them. I just think it's unfair to anyone who invested much time into learning their champions when there are champions where you can be just as useful with even if you just picked them up.

Ahristocats1 votes

there is no fcking way janna does as much as a tahm kench main just no way

the entire thing that balances tahm kench in soloq is his ability to fuck up, that's the only thing you can do to win against him, pray that he fucks up and he's terrible

Elohaven1 votes

Average win rate does not matter on an easy mode champ unless the win rate goes to 59% like during ardent meta and ivern meta and pre season Sona

Judging from your statement, if we had Pantheon at a 20% pickrate and 53% winrate, you would see it as a perfectly healthy and balanced case.

I also differentiate between LCS and SoloQ. They're completely different IMO. Just one look at Kalista will tell you that.

Ahristocats1 votes

healthy state? no because pantheon should not be allowed to be viable Janna does not have the design issue of pantheon no matter what the salty boards tell you, if you disagree go talk with meddler and repertoir

{quoted}

I also differentiate between LCS and SoloQ. They're completely different IMO. Just one look at Kalista will tell you that.

Kalista was a huge issue above Master tier, she was literally impossible to win against unless the Kalista fucked up, same with Azir those champions are "balanced" win rate wise but once you play against competent players they're no longer

Tahm kench is stupid, Tahm kench is not balanced, and Tahm kench should not be allowed to be viable with that kit I pointed out LCS because there they're experienced players that can use him

Janna with 53% win rate is not even close on Tahm kench's lvl

Elohaven2 votes

Using LCS to determine your definition of balance is SoloQ is a bad basis as they're highly different in conduct. LCS has 5-man coordinate premades training and doing mathematical calculations on the best picks to use and synergize with. SoloQ lacks such synergy and is a reason why Kalista was garbage in SoloQ at all ranks but still an issue in LCS.

healthy state? no because pantheon should not be allowed to be viable Janna does not have the design issue of pantheon no matter what the salty boards tell you, if you disagree go talk with meddler and repertoir

The salty boards did not tell me this. And from your past posts even you stated "I abuse max Janna W first. Janna is freelo". If Pantheon should not be allowed to be viable because he's an easy mode champion, then Sona should get her buffs reverted.

Oh wait - I forgot. A 53% winrate is too high on Sona.

Janna is no different. Just because she's easy and her design is close to ideal doesn't mean she can't be oppressive. Her W needs a definite nerf. Using LCS to compare SoloQ is like using Tencent to describe Riot games.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Using LCS to determine your definition of balance is SoloQ is a bad basis as they're highly different in conduct. LCS has 5-man coordinate premades training and doing mathematical calculations on the best picks to use and synergize with. SoloQ lacks such synergy and is a reason why Kalista was garbage in SoloQ at all ranks but still an issue in LCS.

sure, and their 5v5 coordination makes janna weaker? you're making yourself unable to be taken seriously right now

The salty boards did not tell me this. And from your past posts even you stated "I abuse max Janna W first. Janna is freelo".

ad hominem argument, let me do one, i didn't expect more comming from an adc main

If Pantheon should not be allowed to be viable because he's an easy mode champion, then Sona should get her buffs reverted.

you didn't understand Sona or pantheon have a gamehealth problem that makes them an issue when viable

Oh wait - I forgot. A 53% winrate is too high on Sona.

idc

Janna is no different. Just because she's easy and her design is close to ideal doesn't mean she can't be oppressive. Her W needs a definite nerf. Using LCS to compare SoloQ is like using Tencent to describe Riot games.

I use LCS because they're skilled and can play the game with a brain unlike some people that i won't list

Elohaven2 votes

It amazes me how you're emotionally invested in a discussion and cannot refrain from being condescending. You simply dismiss statements without any counterargument and fail to address points thrown at you. If I'm making myself unable to be taken seriously, then your conceited attitude makes you unworthy of discussion.

In your post you've proven:

  • Too incompetent to address the points I've thrown
  • Emotionally invested commentary on my points
  • Failed to give supporting evidence to your opinionated claims

Your entire post is filled with hypocrisy and ridicule. This is not a discussion - this is you crying for someone disagreeing with you and it's something I won't entertain.

Have a good day.

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

It amazes me how you're emotionally invested in a discussion

Cool? if i'm amazing you i'm happy!

You simply dismiss statements

there are no statements, you think that you telling me that i'm abusing W max janna when i didn't play her since 3 months is a statement?

please don't kid yourself, your post is nothing

without any counterargument

there is nothing to counterargue, your point is that janna having 53% win rate 20% pick rate is broken when those stats do not matter on a low skill champion THAT ISNT EVEN CLOSE to being as good as tahm kench and braum

and fail to address points thrown at you

read above

If I'm making myself unable to be taken seriously, then your conceited attitude makes you unworthy of discussion.

In your post you've proven:

  • Too incompetent to address the points I've thrown
  • Emotionally invested commentary on my points
  • Failed to give supporting evidence to your opinionated claims

and i'm the one incompetent? that's really funny because if i said the same i would have been permabanned on sight

my post has a point, which got ignored by you because "lelelel lcs isn't soloq" when janna is garbage compared to braum and tahm kench in high lvl, because high lvls do know how to abuse a kit like tahm kench that can remove any spell in the game, and braum that can legit have a moving windwall

compare them to janna and you will immediatly find out why she's never picked in challenger why she's never picked in lcs

Now please if you want to complain about Janna, make sure to teach high lvl players to ban her and pick her LUL

chipndip13 votes

Rubick you're actually blatantly wrong.

Janna is picked in Challenger elo and she's the only relevant Enchanter in the LCS right now, save occasional Karma mid picks in the LCK.

But if we go to an Enchanter meta, it'll just be Janna EVERY SINGLE GAME. Doesn't that mean something about Janna is either fundamentally broken or something about other Enchanters is fundamentally lacking in comparison to her?

Ahristocats1 votes

{quoted}

Janna is picked in Challenger elo

she's picked by autofilled players

and she's the only relevant Enchanter in the LCS right now, save occasional Karma mid picks in the LCK.

enchanters are picked like one game over ten compared to kench and braum

if

so balance is done around conditions now? that's a new to me lol

chipndip11 votes

Idk why you just constantly brush aside relevant information. Yeah, the support meta is "tanks", but Janna's is picked a fair amount despite that. Like, enough to notice. And this isn't even an Enchanter meta. She's SO good that when it's her meta, she's insta-pick/ban, and when it isn't, she's still relevant. Not every game relevant, but still very noticeable in the pro meta. Idk why you just brush it off. Think of how ridiculous it'd be if someone like Tristana was relevant in EVERY marksman meta? It's the same thing.

Hópe3 votes

Her W needs a CD nerf

Dasdi962 votes

Good luck trying to convince riot that. They took 4 months to finally new her when she had a 57% winrate and 35% pickrate last season.

Arammus1 votes

my friend played janna since i know him (back in season 3) with all the nerfs and hate she gets right now, he is really at fear of his main lol

koshkyra1 votes

If she's maxing W then she cant use her E to block trades and she cant use her E to give her ADC 40 AD

chipndip11 votes

You don't need to max it first. You just need 2 to 3 points in it, then you max E by level 9 or 10.

hi ìm groot1 votes

Its always really hard to say nerf janna tho. Her win rates always make her look overpowered in any meta where the sustain/shielding champs are strong in, because she's the easiest one of them. And last I checked, all of those style champs had high win rates. I think sona's was even higher. To lazy to check updated stats though because not rly important to the point

chipndip11 votes

Well, think of it like this:

  • In normal play, she's always the highest win rate support.

  • In pro play, she's always relevant as a pick, even when every other Enchanter isn't.

Janna's kit just crowds out every other Enchanter on a fundamental level.

hi ìm groot1 votes

{quoted}

Well, think of it like this:

  • In normal play, she's always the highest win rate support.

  • In pro play, she's always relevant as a pick, even when every other Enchanter isn't.

Janna's kit just crowds out every other Enchanter on a fundamental level.

Dont watch pro play, so cant speak for it. But at least with auto based ADC's like kog, jinx, varus, I've always felt like lulu was way stronger but you could fk her up easier. Janna definitely goes with more adc's though, you really cant go wrong with her because she just gives flat AD with the shield, and she does control so well.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Elohaven

"We're basing our next champion on Vayne" -- Riot
Memes & Games68 comments
143
votes
ADC mains want ADCs nerfed just so...
Gameplay73 comments
125
votes
Upvote this Lee Sin complaint thread
Gameplay30 comments
108
votes
@Meddler The excuse you won't buff towers due to snowball is a bad one
Gameplay34 comments
95
votes
PSA | Riot and the Boards lost the goal of the ADC nerfs
Gameplay80 comments
93
votes
Well, this is quite the beauty
Story, Art, & Sound25 comments
92
votes