One For All Taught Me How Big The Ranged Advantage Is

SirPurrr·Aug 4, 2018·30 votes·11,668 views

Played as Ahri vs Darius and as Quinn vs Jax. They couldn't do anything. It's actually insane what a huge advantage it is and it's even more glaring in this game mode.

70 Comments

LTK KoRoAug 4, 201825 votes

And now you probably know why toplaners want Gnar, Quinn, Heimer, Kennen, Jayce, Teemo and other ranged bullies to GTFO from top. Being constantly poked AND being unable to close the gap at once is a one of the most anti-fun feelings in this game.

TerozuAug 5, 20183 votes

If you cant close a gap on Teemo youre just not good at gap closing.

It Hertz When IPAug 5, 201814 votes

Unless you got a hard CC or long-duration slow(s), any Teemo worth his salt will just W away laughing, possibly through a mushroom.

LTK KoRoAug 5, 201810 votes

And if you're playing any kind of autoattacker, you wont do any damage to him while he runs back. Also have fun taking 2 aery procs because he autoattacked you once hehe

I lost lane hard vs teemo recently and im salty, sorry.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 5, 20184 votes

Okay let's close the gap: Kennen: Instantly stuns you, tanks up and runs away Jayce: Knocks you back into a slow, movement speed buff, burst rotation Teemo: Blinds you and walks away with W. Quinn: Just needs to keep her E until you try to get close to knock you back and slow you and burst you

Gnar doesn't matter what he does he wins in melee range anyways as mini gnar.

TerozuAug 5, 20181 votes

I said Teemo.

If you are any meta top laner and cant gap close a teemo. You are just bad at closing the gap.

Darius, Garen, Gangplank, Nasus, Mundo, literally any of them.

You should be able to gap close on a Teemo. Easily.

Automated RivenAug 5, 20182 votes

Ummm. Only if Teemo plays badly in most of those.

TerozuAug 5, 20183 votes

Really? Nasus has Wither.

Darius' grab range is 1 teemo shorter than Teemos auto range and he has a slow. Garen can ignore slows and ignore blind while having a higher movement burst. Mundo is designed to est up spells like teemos and most of his damage is from speels not autos. Gangplank is the only one of them who would have any difficulty and he can circumvent it via range and more powerful speed boosts.

Automated RivenAug 5, 20184 votes

Gangplank and mundo are the only ones who can easily deal with him, and that's after scaling. The rest get kited and beaten.

ZerglingOneAug 5, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cApVJq1m,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-04T22:53:19.763+0000)

And now you probably know why toplaners want Gnar, Quinn, Heimer, Kennen, Jayce, Teemo and other ranged bullies to GTFO from top. Being constantly poked AND being unable to close the gap at once is a one of the most anti-fun feelings in this game.

And it's especially bad when 4 of the ones you listed have some of the most powerful escapes in the game in Quinn's Vault, gnar's hop, Kennen's lightning rush (which most people forget is also a massive defensive steroid), and Jayce's hammer smash.

LTK KoRoAug 5, 20185 votes

It's also funny how most of these escape abilities are really great in 1 vs 1, but they can't reliably save your life in 5 vs 5 (outside of kennen e)

ZerglingOneAug 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cApVJq1m,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2018-08-05T13:27:41.674+0000)

It's also funny how most of these escape abilities are really great in 1 vs 1, but they can't reliably save your life in 5 vs 5 (outside of kennen e)

BAHAHAHA. Kennen trying to ESCAPE a 5v5? I've heard a lot of ridiculous things in my life, but that might just take the cake.

LTK KoRoAug 7, 20181 votes

yeah, so what happens when kennen fails his flash and manages to ult the wall? He uses e to run in shame

Tryficic RebornAug 4, 201821 votes

Ahri's passive, charm and ultimate allow her to kite and therefore abuse Darius's weakness of not having a gapcloser. While he's quite tanky, Ahri can just kite him into oblivion until she's ready to all-in and kill him.

Quinn can cancel Jax's Q with her E if she times it right AND she gets movement speed from her passive. She can also just use her Q to prevent Jax from even trying to use his Q. The movement speed from Harrier and the jump backwards from her E allow her to also kite Jax and kill him when she's ready or just run away.

The advantage of having more range than their enemies didn't magically win Quinn and Ahri the game, the fact that they can play around Jax and Darius' weaknesses and abuse them did.

Light BurnerAug 5, 20182 votes

The advantage of having more range than their enemies didn't magically win Quinn and Ahri the game, the fact that they can play around Jax and Darius' weaknesses and abuse them did.

Which goes to show you that range is a huge advantage.... So what was the point you were trying to make????

Spank the FoxAug 5, 201812 votes

That range solely wasn’t the only factor. Playing Ashe into those two would not have the same result.

Also, Darius completely dominates melee matchups, range should be his weakness.

BestPudgeNAAug 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=You seem sleepy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cApVJq1m,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-04T22:06:37.707+0000)

Ahri's passive, charm and ultimate allow her to kite and therefore abuse Darius's weakness of not having a gapcloser. While he's quite tanky, Ahri can just kite him into oblivion until she's ready to all-in and kill him.

Quinn can cancel Jax's Q with her E if she times it right AND she gets movement speed from her passive. She can also just use her Q to prevent Jax from even trying to use his Q. The movement speed from Harrier and the jump backwards from her E allow her to also kite Jax and kill him when she's ready or just run away.

The advantage of having more range than their enemies didn't magically win Quinn and Ahri the game, the fact that they can play around Jax and Darius' weaknesses and abuse them did.

Could Ahri Kite a ranged Darius? Could Quinn really make use of stopping Jax's gap closer if she was melee?

Hint the answer is no on both. You literally described reasons why ranged is a massive advantage as played it off as part of the champs kits, but it's RANGE vs MELEE parts of the kits that give them those advantages

Tryficic RebornAug 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Could Ahri Kite a ranged Darius? Could Quinn really make use of stopping Jax's gap closer if she was melee?

Imagine you are a marksman and see an Ahri on low health when you are full. Will she not try to kite you until she brings you down to her health and then go in?

If you're a melee Quinn trying to run away from Jax, stopping his Q will make you get away easier. Then you can use your Q to blind him so he can't click on you until you're ready to use E again. Is that not making use of cancelling his gap closer?

Hint the answer is no on both. You literally described reasons why ranged is a massive advantage as played it off as part of the champs kits, but it's RANGE vs MELEE parts of the kits that give them those advantages

Can Ashe kite Jax as reliably as Quinn can? Or Varus? Kog'Maw? Lux?

How well would other ranged champions do against Darius? Like, Jayce?

Urgot is also considered ranged. What advantages does he get against melee champions?

taleofsonataAug 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=You seem sleepy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cApVJq1m,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-04T22:06:37.707+0000)

Ahri's passive, charm and ultimate allow her to kite and therefore abuse Darius's weakness of not having a gapcloser. While he's quite tanky, Ahri can just kite him into oblivion until she's ready to all-in and kill him.

Quinn can cancel Jax's Q with her E if she times it right AND she gets movement speed from her passive. She can also just use her Q to prevent Jax from even trying to use his Q. The movement speed from Harrier and the jump backwards from her E allow her to also kite Jax and kill him when she's ready or just run away.

The advantage of having more range than their enemies didn't magically win Quinn and Ahri the game, the fact that they can play around Jax and Darius' weaknesses and abuse them did.

Don't forget to mention that ahri does true damage meaning its actually hard to itemize against her.

iTaLenTZAug 5, 201818 votes

Acording to Ghostcrawler it takes more skill to play ranged champs because they have to manage range. It makes no sense

The Yetii RiderAug 5, 20189 votes

Orb-walking IS a skill that melee characters don't have to utilize as much. Trust me, as someone who plays pretty much exclusively melee characters, when I go on range I just build tank so that I can survive because I position terribly and get dove all the time.

Sucks to be them though. They never expect me to be so hard to kill and it leads to some pretty great baits!

oortoomeebreesuuAug 5, 20184 votes

but melee champs DO have to utilize orb walking just as much, otherwise people can just walk away from you.

GesterrAug 5, 20181 votes

Yup, proper use of orb walking is like the only mechanical skill that differentiates a great Udyr player can show to set them apart from your run-of-the-mill Udyr players.

BestPudgeNAAug 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cApVJq1m,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-08-05T01:07:30.760+0000)

Orb-walking IS a skill that melee characters don't have to utilize as much.

Da fuck are you talking about lol.

KadexeAug 5, 201814 votes

It's true. When you're kiting, you're constantly clicking the ground to the right, your target to the left, the ground to your right, your target to the left, several times every second. You have to do it with perfect rhythm to kite as much as possible too, so that you cancel your animations without cancelling your attacks. One misclick and you walk into melee range and likely die. Melee champions don't worry about this as much because for the most part, the position they want to be in and the enemy they want to attack are in the same spot.

sardonismsAug 5, 20182 votes

I just rebound attack move to my scroll wheel click and now I don't have that problem.

Automated RivenAug 5, 20181 votes

Works in a pinch. But it's very inaccurate as you only target the closest enemy. So if you rely on attack move you will attack wards and minions.

GesterrAug 5, 20181 votes

You can toggle "Target champions only" as a hot key. I think by default it is your ~ key

Automated RivenAug 5, 20181 votes

That's fair. I haven't ever found a way to make it work smoothly. However I do use attack move on specific champions. (kalista especially) I have found it clunky tho. Props for making it work for you tho.

iTaLenTZAug 5, 20186 votes

{quoted}

It's true. When you're kiting, you're constantly clicking the ground to the right, your target to the left, the ground to your right, your target to the left, several times every second. You have to do it with perfect rhythm to kite as much as possible too, so that you cancel your animations without cancelling your attacks. One misclick and you walk into melee range and likely die. Melee champions don't worry about this as much because for the most part, the position they want to be in and the enemy they want to attack are in the same spot.

That is why Ghostcrawler thinks ranged champs take more skill. I don't think it takes more or less skill to play a melee or range, its takes a different skill. That is a fundamental different approach. But Ghostcrawlers design philosphy sees range as more skilled thus allowed for a bigger power budget in their kits. That is the problem. That is why we have such a huge discrepancy now between ranged and melee champs.

SpecterVonBarenAug 5, 20185 votes

Huh, I would think the Darius team would win that matchup.

Sire HippingtonAug 5, 20183 votes

And how so?

Reset213Aug 5, 20181 votes

Stacking MR

Sire HippingtonAug 5, 20182 votes

Doesn't make you invulnerable, you still won't reach her, she can still shove you in, and most of all she has truedamage on her Q. Also, item 3135 item 3151 item 3165 ....

Seer of MindAug 5, 20185 votes

Stacking MR doesn't really do much, unless you have Nullifying Orb, item 3156 , and for OFA, item 3194 . Played Akali vs GP, as GP i had to stack so much MR but a single one of them could do half my health with a full combo.

GesterrAug 5, 20182 votes

Akali does a fair amount of Physical damage as well that's a big reason.

Seer of MindAug 5, 20181 votes

Armor didn't mean much to me, I had near max CDR and item 3065 so my W healed me for more than they could burst

SpecterVonBarenAug 6, 20182 votes

I would think they'd win harder by pushing lanes.

My Waifu VanillaAug 5, 20185 votes

And I didnt lose a single melee versus ranged match up because you can literally just stack the resist of hate and mongo stat check them. If you pick Darius in ofa there is zero reason to not take flash+ghost and phase rush. The ONLY match ups you would lose are ranged ones since your kit INHERENTLY wins every melee match up. It's called playing smart and thinking ahead.

Need Gold 4 TentAug 5, 20184 votes

His design is literally too binary. I played top udyr into him and pretty much came out of lane without an anus - 0/2 but while I managed to stop the feed I was half his cs and 2 levels down.

Few games later, I pick kayle into him and poor thing pretty much didn't touch me a single time in lane phase. Ended up in the exact same situation as my udyr game, except this time it was the darius that got raped. He's the king of melees, which is something that needs to be toned down but his weakness to kiting needs to be softened as well.

Shuriman CuratorAug 4, 20184 votes

LUL pick Yasuo and face Illaoi , I couldn't wait to throw in that surrender vote

Athenes LuluAug 4, 20183 votes

just play trundle lol

ModKnightsKemplarAug 5, 20187 votes

I was shocked at how good trundle can be with 5 pillars. I mean, I knew he'd be annoying...

But we played lux into trundle and we got smashed. I mean, we were helpless. One of the weirdest experiences I have had playing League of Legends to date. I was blindsided.

BestPudgeNAAug 6, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I was shocked at how good trundle can be with 5 pillars. I mean, I knew he'd be annoying...

But we played lux into trundle and we got smashed. I mean, we were helpless. One of the weirdest experiences I have had playing League of Legends to date. I was blindsided.

Trundle is literally the strongest one for all champ in the game. It's perma ban and open mid if for so reason he gets through and people are lame enough to pick him. W stacking is one of the dumbest things in the game lol

RavenMagusAug 5, 20183 votes

That's not always true.

I played a game as Wukong vs Lux. The Lux team didn't even stand a chance, even with superior range.

Ahri and Quinn are both extra good at kiting thanks to their combined maneuverability and CC (and Darius is also extra vulnerable to kiting), but many ranged champions can't actually keep bruisers or assassins from simply dashing in and killing them.

Meep ManAug 5, 20182 votes

I don't think this argument is valid. While it's true that a team of full melee is usually weaker than a team of full ranged, that situation almost never shows up in a normal game. The weaknesses of being melee are multiplied when your entire team is not only melee, but all the same champion, meaning if your team is a champion with an intended strong weakness to being kited, like Darius, you will suffer a lot against ranged champions with even a little mobility or CC.

Plus, the match ups you described are pretty extreme. Ahri is one of the most mobile ranged Mages in the game, and Quinn has one of the most powerful disengage tools of any ADC.

Tahminatrix Aug 5, 20181 votes

I built ad on ahri and was able to 1v2 against 2 aatrox players (and then die after from ignite)..

Ya ahri is probably a problem in this situation because of her R making it too easy to kite...

Even when they managed to get close to me I just hugged them so they couldn't land any qs, it was depressing.

NepgearDesuAug 5, 20181 votes

Played as Riven vs Draven. Stomped the hell out of them past 15 minutes, at which point they couldn't do much anymore. Only one of us knew how to play Riven from the get-go, too. Where was the range advantage?

GayFluffyUnicornAug 5, 20184 votes

A champion with four spammable low cooldown gapclosers can actually get to ranged champs? What is this sorcery. Hope you were sarcastic.

Automated RivenAug 5, 20182 votes

Riven shits on adc's. Barring possibly vayne/trist if they are good. Doesn't mean ranged doesn't have an advantage. That's like complaining that an adc lost to an assassin.