Riot we are not asking you to delete Rylia's

Irelia Bot·Oct 6, 2016·25 votes·6,498 views

We are just asking you to make there be reason to not get it every game.

75 Comments

KivolanOct 6, 201627 votes

Only if you do the same to item 3142 and item 3071 .

The reason it's in every game is because squishy immobile APCs need something to deal with all the mobility offered to AD champions through skills and itemization.

Is Rylais a problem on spam / DoT mages like Cassiopeia and Malzahar ? Sure. But that's a problem with those champions and their kit's affinity for the item, not with the item as a whole.

Big LincolnOct 6, 20165 votes

the item is built on almost every single AP champion lol

It's not the champions that are at fault; Rylai's offers stats far too good for the usefulness of the slow (which is a permaslow on more champions than should be acceptable). if it wasn't an item that gave you enough AP to be a potent burst mage by itself while also offering a good chunk of health, it probably wouldn't be such a big deal.

i think it should be lowered to 80 AP again with AP added to other items to make them more enticing purchases

18 NAKED COWB0YSOct 6, 20163 votes

comparing youmous and black cleaver to rylais LULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

KivolanOct 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=ANJell 1004,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c0iBMKA1,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-10-06T01:32:45.880+0000)

comparing youmous and black cleaver to rylais LULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

I'm not sure "comparing" is the word you're looking for.

But anyway... I can understand taking a bit of AP off of Rylais if it's tacked on to other AP items. I see most people wanting to nerf the slow, though, and that just sounds ridiculous to me.

Irelia BotOct 6, 20162 votes

Not as crazy as you think considering they did buff it in mid season 4 if memory serves right.

Handy Sandy Oct 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Only if you do the same to and .

The reason it's in every game is because squishy immobile APCs need something to deal with all the mobility offered to AD champions through skills and itemization.

Is Rylais a problem on spam / DoT mages like and ? Sure. But that's a problem with those champions and their kit's affinity for the item, not with the item as a whole.

One of the best arguments about item 3116 I've heard so far

Spicy RiceOct 6, 20166 votes

Thing is, there's an inherent difference between speeding oneself up, and slowing someone down.

Speeding yourself up is only really useful for you.

Slowing anyone down is very useful for your entire team

Also, squishy immobile APCs are supposed to be relying on their team to peel for them in the back line. if you are needing a slow to survive, then there is something wrong with your team

MunchCrunchLunchOct 6, 20162 votes

Tristana Vayne and a bunch other adcs dont buy these items.

also. bc is like morrelos. its a core item. its not a utility item

so is ghostblade for assassins. every mage and their mom buys rylais. even onces that have slows because of how good the stats are

KivolanOct 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

and a bunch other adcs dont buy these items.

also. bc is like morrelos. its a core item. its not a utility item

so is ghostblade for assassins. every mage and their mom buys rylais. even onces that have slows because of how good the stats are

No ADCs should be buying these items, yet they are. That should give a small hint that something's wrong.

But every bruiser in existence is buying them.

MyNameAintNickOct 6, 20161 votes

Adc's shouldn't be buying an items that give armor pen and ad along with a movespeed active?

There's no logic behind that statement.

GawnMowerOct 6, 20162 votes

I can understand MissFortune buying item 3071 because it has been a viable item on her for a very long time now, very long.

Now in terms of BC on other ADC's especially Lucian, I wouldn't say BC is not a viable item, more so it shouldn't be. 50 AD 20%CDR and a potential 30% (6 stacks) AOE armour shread. A good Lucian player can tell you that getting these stacks is not hard. Hell some standard Lucian trades aa-E-aa-aa is 3 stacks. and -Q- aa-aa- e-aa-aa is 5.

I would argue strongly that BC benefits Lucian the most out of all ADC's by far, at least in terms of damage. BC on MF is good as well but that provides more of a team benefit, as she shreds everyone armour if they are caught in her ult, making them easier to kill for everyone

NineTailedMysticOct 6, 20162 votes

Because Flat Armor Pen shouldn't be a readily available stat to ADCs. Youmuu's is an Assassin item, just like Duskblade, yet ADCs are dipping into their already meager itemization pool because of how good they make them at deleting squishies but without the intended downside of being melee.

NodirjonSattarovOct 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

and a bunch other adcs dont buy these items.

also. bc is like morrelos. its a core item. its not a utility item

so is ghostblade for assassins. every mage and their mom buys rylais. even onces that have slows because of how good the stats are

I've seen vayne build youmoos. trist sees little play

RiotRiot AxesOct 6, 201625 votes

Both Rylai's and Ghostblade are likely to see pretty significant changes at preseason.

WalkingInACircleOct 6, 20161 votes

I hope any nerfs to Rylai's slow have corresponding changes to DMP. Melee champs get plenty of chances to boost their movespeed.

Irelia BotOct 6, 20168 votes

It was fine before the slow was buffed and the AP was increased to 100 from 80 with the health reduced to 400 from 500

WalkingInACircleOct 6, 20163 votes

It was worthless, not 'fine'.

Irelia BotOct 6, 20169 votes

It was an item that many but not all AP champs would get.

WalkingInACircleOct 6, 20162 votes

No one bought it.

Spicy RiceOct 6, 201611 votes

People bought it when they needed more utility, which is as it should be.

At the moment, people just buy it because it's a 100 ap item with nice bonuses attached.

MokkunOct 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c0iBMKA1,comment-id=00010004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-06T04:15:46.439+0000)

People bought it when they needed more utility, which is as it should be.

At the moment, people just buy it because it's a 100 ap item with nice bonuses attached.

The problem is that unlike say... the desired core ADC items(The infinity edge builds, as opposed to the fotm flat pen ones), there's actually some diversity with mage items. The downside is that they keep adding to that diversity by upping utility, and lowering raw damage. Some items have to be there to maintain damage, or AP Casters will just be overfarmed supports.

If they drop Rylai's AP, which perhaps they should, they will need to up it on another semi-core item. That basically means re-amping hourglass, buffing DC or ROA yet again, or turning a new item core with the accompanying complaints that will follow from that.

Ashen RiderOct 6, 20161 votes

Riot have said that they want to add another AP CDR item to the game, as Morello is so widespread. I expect that to come during preseason.

VinnieVegaOct 6, 20161 votes

I don't know why Athenes had to be changed, although I don't terribly mind the new item on a handful of supports and midlanes, it's completely different and not a mage item at all anymore. so yea, i would like there to be two AP/CDR/mana options like there always used to be.

137434Oct 6, 20161 votes

The problem was old Athenes and Morellos were too close to each other. So whatever item was tuned the best at the moment was the clear choice to take out of the two 99% of the time with the other item forgotten.

So Riot decided to make Morellos a mage focused item and Athenes a support focused one to give them some space and unique identity.

VinnieVegaOct 6, 20163 votes

That's silly. It's like saying essence reaver and ie are too similar, or rav/titan hydra. There's supposed to be itemization options that let you specialize your champ to perform different functions. And it's not that hard to create those specializations, Morellos was always about the healing debuff now it's about being able to pick up lost chapter early, if anything it just feels like the same situation you described, of one item edging out the other via stat efficiency, it just happens to be officially sanctioned...

NineTailedMysticOct 6, 20161 votes

ER and IE were too similar. That's why they got changed in the Marksman Update. Athene's and Morello were too similar. 80/60 AP, shit ton of Mana Regen, 20% CDR. The only real differences were Grievous Wounds and 25 MR.

137434Oct 6, 20161 votes

No, Morellos and Athenes were all about the same thing: large mana regen and CDR to spam spells more.

The extra MR on Athenes and grievous wounds on Morellos were just bonuses. Nobody bought them because of that unless absolutely necessary (against heavy AP team or heavy healing team). That is why in the rework Morellos switched to flat mana with heavy amounts of AP, while Athenes stuck with mana regen and a support passive with less AP.

Rav/Titantic hydra are completely different unlike old Morello/Athenes. In fact they are the perfect example of two items with similar purposes but for different cases. One gives health, some ad, and an active/passive that scales off health, while the other gives lifesteal, a lot of the AD, and an active/passive that scales off total ad. Which one you chose depends far more on the champion you are playing and what other items you are building than whichever of the two items is numerically stronger at the moment.

TheSingularityOct 6, 20163 votes

I bought it. On brand, velkoz, zyra, rumble and zac. All like the slow, zac was for an ap/hp item. It was niche. Not must buy like it is now

Linna ExcelOct 6, 20167 votes

But what kind of changes?

Rylai's for as long as I can remember has been AP, HP, and the slow on spell hit effect. People haven't started complaining about it since the MYMU. It is possible that other changes in that patch are partly to blame?

Irelia BotOct 6, 201610 votes

The ratio of the stats matters.

Linna ExcelOct 6, 20165 votes

So you suggest going back to 80 AP, 500 health, and a weaker slow?

I wouldn't mind a revert but I get the feeling that riot is hoping to ~~gut~~ split it into two different items.

Spicy RiceOct 6, 201614 votes

Personally, I want mages to have to choose between more damage, or more tankiness/utility.

At the moment, the item is a trifecta

XilixerOct 6, 20161 votes

well that's kinda fair seeing how they changed item 3078 into ad only.

PhelasOct 6, 20165 votes

There was never an ap champ that bought Trinity, they already got Lich Bane, even tho i admit that Lich Bane in comparison is weaker than Trinity. But cheaper tho.

NiceTryViOct 6, 20162 votes

There were AD champs with some AP scalings, so trin worked on them as well. However, I think the new trinity is way better than old trinity.

PhelasOct 7, 20161 votes

Yes, sure but no champ really bought trinity because of the ap it provides, it was more a neat addon.

CarneroxOct 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

There was never an ap champ that bought Trinity, they already got Lich Bane, even tho i admit that Lich Bane in comparison is weaker than Trinity. But cheaper tho.

Weaker by itself maybe. But it does way more damage than trinity come late game because of the AP ratio.

PhelasOct 7, 20161 votes

Ye i meant statwise. OFC the AP-scaling spellbladepassive from Lich Bane will be much much stronger on AP champs than the 200% AD Spellblade passive of Trinity.

Maximum MordeOct 7, 20161 votes

They took the AP off my IBG though :(. I used to rush that item on champs I wanted spellblade but was laning into an ad assassin.

PhelasOct 10, 20161 votes

Mana IBG Kassadin, good ol' days

Baron of BreadOct 6, 20162 votes

Have you heard of Black Cleaver?

Spicy RiceOct 6, 20162 votes

Except, it isn't

A. One of the items with the highest ad

And

B. There is inherent difference between speeding oneself up and slowing others down

DarkRitualOct 6, 20161 votes

A cooldown for reapplication on each target. So you can apply it to a target only once every X seconds from the previous one expiring.

VenedictosOct 7, 20162 votes

I'm pretty positive that Rylai's rose to power because other items/competitors for its slot got nerfed into utility items. Plus, champions that like the item very very much got buffed/changed and became relevant.

Ashen RiderOct 6, 20161 votes

Do you have any idea as to how you are going to fix Ghostblade? I was thinking that if you removed the attack speed boost, it would be a lot less valuable to adcs. Assassins usually don't really care about attack speed, and get the item for the damage and movespeed. Removing the attack speed keeps it how it is for assassins but makes it a lot less desirable on ADCs

VinnieVegaOct 6, 20161 votes

except when it comes to pushing towers. but ad assassins are already not bad at that.

DarkRitualOct 6, 20161 votes

Remove the CDR, buff the active stats, increase active cooldown.

Ashen RiderOct 6, 20161 votes

Yeah that's another thing, the active cooldown is way too short. It is up every time you need it. Even an extra fifteen seconds would really help it.

Overlord ForteOct 6, 20162 votes

Will Rod of Ages be looked alongside it again? At 5 minutes, it's 80AP/400HP, so in exchange for losing the Slow passive and 20 AP, you get the Eternity passive and a sizable mana pool increase. At full stack in 10 minutes, it's pulling 100AP/500HP as probably the best hybrid AP/HP item in the game, ontop of it's relatively cheap cost (2700g).

While the slow passive will be addressed on problem champions, I'm concerned the raw stat dump which helps power Rylai's will make ROA a problem again in the exact same situations.