Champions the forums hate.

it be lìke that·Sep 28, 2016·4 votes·834 views

winnrate has fallen to 51% across ALL ranked play. healthy winrate.

48% winrate. below average bottom 50% of pool.

47%

46% he now has a lower winnrate than aatrox (albeit he is played far more, but there is still a point there)

a whopping 45% winnrate.

yet no one mentions champions that are genuinely too strong, such as who has had an amazing winrate for the last 2 months, especially in bronze - plat (falls to 51% in plat, still higher than all the champions we are constantly complaining about)

Why is it a trend to nitpick and want to tear down champions because "I don't like playing against them" Okay, i don't like getting counterpicked by pantheon. He is now toxic because he can block turret shots with his passive and he gains guaranteed critcal strikes.

You can make any champions kit sound toxic, the forums are just a bit late on the bandwagon hate for all champions mentioned.

36 Comments

AstôlfoSep 28, 20167 votes

People don't like playing against champions that require a different approach than the normal 99%. It takes too much brainpower and effort.

AstôlfoSep 28, 20163 votes

I generally agree, but Amumu isn't "too strong". He's strong, but that's all he is.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20162 votes

he just does too much atm imo.

his damage alone mixed with his cc can be devastating. especially if you build item 3151

q+w+r+e+ adc is almost ded. even when cinderhulk with liandrys.

AstôlfoSep 28, 20163 votes

Or you just dodge his Q and then he's essentially useless outside of Flash-Ult.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

q to a minion if you cant hit your target then r, and his hitbox on q is pretty forgiving, he can also easily q from the brush or over the wall from blind.

not like he announces he is there.

SlythionSep 28, 20162 votes

even after that, his Q is a large portion of his damage and he definitely can't delete anyone without hitting it

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

yeah but the set up damage is still there with R and w, any carry will make short work of whoever you catch.

GULAG 4 USep 28, 20163 votes

First off, winrates don't make a champion healthy. The champions hated listing is right though.

Second off, the forums have always been a shitfest of bandwagoning and circle jerking plus QQing. This is why Riot almost never gives a shit about what the boards say. I SAID ALMOST.

3rd off, Yeah, you can make any champion sound toxic by making the said identity or mechanic sound broken. It's not hard.

4th off, Idk and IDC if amumu is strong, he isn't strong because of a winrate. He's strong because of actual factors, not a number.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20162 votes

but factors = numbers? do they not?

and ofcourse play rate matters as well, but the general thought here is, if this champion truly is "overloaded" or "incredibly easy and toxic to play" why are they not winning?

and not to be too picky, but i mean, you listed them out of order even.

GULAG 4 USep 28, 20162 votes

First off, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was voicing my opinion: Winrates are good. Good to spice up your argument. Not quite good to make an entire argument based off it.

The other thing about winrate is this: Some champions should have a lower winrate because they're harder to play. But speaking of that you also have to take in consideration of learning curves (ChampGG has em') BUT they are extremely inconsistent until the said champion has a high playrate. Because according to OPGG you get worse at Aatrox the more you play him. There's playrartes and banrates too, and the winrate in ELOs too.

So overall you can't make an argument based off one winrate, but you can make one based off playrate, winrate, banrate, of all elos.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

those winrates ARE all elos first off.

Secondly, im not addressing real factors, im addressing blind hatemongering.

if these champions are truly "broken" or "really easy to play" why are they not winning? Thats the consensus of all QQ threads about these champions.

If they are so strong, and yet still so easy to play, why do they have lower winrates?

ammumu is the only champion who averages over a 3.0 kd across all elos in the top 15 who isnt a support Soraka Janna being the only 2. Soraka has also just been nerfed.

every single stat imaginable points at ammumu being far more "overpowered" and he is genuinely "easy to play" where is his hate tho?

GULAG 4 USep 28, 20161 votes

Well he isn't popular, that's why people don't hate him. There's nothing you can do about it honestly, but the boards are extremely sensitive about Yasuo.

I've been called a yasuo main for pointing something wrong in a proYasuo thread.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

and thats exactly right!

although is playrate isnt that far off.

SlythionSep 28, 20163 votes

you see, the unspoken rule on the boards is that they only complain about champions with annoying kits (this usually resembles flashy, high mobility, low cooldown kits that have a form of stickyness to them). Adc's are an exception of course, but that's why you only really hear about them when they do have a high win rate.

So while strong champions like Amumu exist (although, he isn't exactly op), he doesn't have the other part of the equation (toxic kit) to complete his application to be the newest boards rage.

It's why the boards can't be trusted to take balancing seriously, because the general consensus is that these "rage" champions should have a low win rate or be generally underpowered, and if they aren't at any point then you'll be hearing about it for awhile even after it's fixed. That's a side effect of the "mob mentality": delayed opinion changes

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

far too accurate.

i wouldnt call him OP but he is stronger than his counterparts in every way imaginable, not trying to rule him out or say he needs to be nerfed, he is just my example of choice.

SlythionSep 28, 20161 votes

He's a solid pick, I'll give you that.

I'd rather not have the boards be raging about him because he's been the definition of a "strong, reliable, yet not op or unbalanced champion" for a long time now and I'd hate to have the boards raging about a champion that's in such a good position balance-wise

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

ehh i think he could use a slight damage nerf, liandrys works too well with him imo

Off Meta EvanSep 28, 20163 votes

i would agrue that while amumu has a numbers issue which is extremely easy to nerf. a champion like Riven who has an extremely overloaded kit is a lot harder to make not aids to play against. i personally don't hate Zed or Ekko that much but i understand why people don't enjoy fighting against them. as for Yasuo i hate playing against him because he's SUPPOSED to be a high skill cap champ that is high risk high reward, but with current items thats just not the case anymore. for Vayne because she's so mobile and has true damage built in, and a point and click one man disengage. any immobile melee champion has a chance in hell at catching her. so Garen Chogath Darius Sion Illaoi Trundle Yorick Volibear Poppy any of these good fucking luck. which i feel is extremely inorganic and makes it feel like their isn't really anything you can do against her.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

and there is that cancerous word. "overloaded" cringe.

cho cant silence her and out trade when she goes in? have you seen how fucked his hitbox is? trundle can pillar and slow her, pop ult and immediately win the fight vs any bruiser/tank hence why he is known as the universal top lane counter.

yorick, im not sure with new yorick, but i imagine they eff each other up and unless riven saves her knock up, you arent getting out of his jarvan ult. volibear has his own speed increase.

poppy isnt a fair argument, she ha sbeen trash af forever along with garen. they dont do well against anyone.

darius can win trades if he wards the nearest bush and plays from it. if he lands his grab and slow, he will chunk tf out of riven.

Off Meta EvanSep 28, 20161 votes

you have a champion with 0 mana, high mobility, high damage, an ult that gives you damage, range, a passive and active component, two escapes, cc, a shield (the only one that scales off of AD.) can build fighter or full assassin, and gives up absolutely NOTHING for it. overloaded is a perfectly reasonable word to describe a champion like that.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

you can make anyone sound overpowered if you name everything they can do, ready? here we go.

urgot can spam his q, not only does it provide high damage it shreds your armor each time, he has an aoe move that where he lands it his q spam cannot miss. he gets a big ass shield as a marksman giving up nothing in return for it. he can teleport you into his entire team, he gets to pick his target.

see?

Off Meta EvanSep 28, 20162 votes

The difference here is that i can actually list urgots weaknesses as well, for every pro in urgots kit he has a con. He can spam Q but he has mana issues, he has an AOE move that lets him do a fuck ton of damage but if his misses it his damage is piss poor, he gets a big ass shield but he has no mobility and the shield scales off of mana, not AD so you have to build shit that isn't pure damage to make the shield worth a damn. he can teleport you into the enemy team, but he also teleports himself so if his target happens to survive then he killed himself for nothing. its a sacrifice for everything you give him, equivalent exchange #FMA, but for Riven, she doesn't do that, i can't think of something thats a glaring weakness in her kit at all. urgot gets a shit ton of damage early but scales terribly, riven scales decently and has good damage at level 3. urgot has no mobility in exchange for damage, riven has both. hell even a champion like Kassadin who gives up having a big ass burst ult like ziggs ult or zed ult in exchange for mobility, ISN'T as mobile as riven because of mana costs..... lol wut??

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

cc riven, she dies in it 100%. similiar to master yi. riven builds essentially no mr besides maw, only hp item is cleaver generally. you build ga last for a bit of mr. riven is played far more like an assassin, she can be killed easily if cc'd, she has a high skill cap and her winrate is low.

so i mean. /shrug

keep cryin tho.

just cc her and kill? sounds easy enough to me :)

Off Meta EvanSep 28, 20161 votes

but thats essentially every champions weakness, cc them so they can't do anything, then kill them. like thats not something unique to riven. and as for mr you can get item 3139 item 3156 item 3111 and still do quit a bit of damage. i don't think she's broken at the moment due to the current meta but that doesn't change that her overall kit just has a bunch of shit while having no unique cons. the high skill cap i don't view as a legit argument because i believe that every champion should be balanced under the assumption that they're gonna be played mechanically perfectly. Because people WILL be able to play them perfectly and then because their champ doesn't have any flaws it becomes less of a game of mechanical skill and more of a, who picked the better champion type of scenario.

2yordles1cupcakeSep 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bxKbw8ke,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-28T20:31:35.881+0000)

you can make anyone sound overpowered if you name everything they can do, ready? here we go.

urgot can spam his q, not only does it provide high damage it shreds your armor each time, he has an aoe move that where he lands it his q spam cannot miss. he gets a big ass shield as a marksman giving up nothing in return for it. he can teleport you into his entire team, he gets to pick his target.

see?

Tell you what urgot doesnt do, scale well late game or spam a hard cc every 15 sec.

See?

Plats/Gold and Trolls like op is the reason why gameplay is a joke.

Kids like these are the mainstream of the circlesheep.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

sure seem like valid points to me.

EcchiOtakuTMSep 28, 20162 votes

Correction: "Anything that can kill you."

ShadòwSep 28, 20161 votes

Yasuo is a champ supposed to be hard.

51% winrate is far too much.

GULAG 4 USep 28, 20161 votes

What about the learning curve of opgg?

And his statistic isn't exactly correct neither.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

keep in mind, the bug fix was not over a month ago was it? so that means his winrate is declining from that 57%

so basically, most are getting their shit pushed in.

PennsSep 28, 20161 votes

Well, imagine youre playing a game and you can decide between 2 paths. One is an annoying to cross swamp where you have to walk slowly, fall into small holes all the time, maybe its really dark in there as well, but there are no enemies at all. And the other one is a fairly challeneing but fun road with some enemies.

Im pretty sure most people would choose the second path, even tho the first one is technically easier... you know what I mean?

2yordles1cupcakeSep 28, 20161 votes

2 months? Amu has been like this for a long time. I'm just surprised Riot hasnt reworked him yet.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

how sad must people be to go through and downvote every single comment posted by anyone lmao.

NatsumisokuSep 28, 20161 votes

Well, part of the reason their hated, is due to their player base, with Yasuo Riven Vayne Zed having a tendency to be toxic, and not many like toxic players, where they be on your team or the enemy team.

it be lìke thatSep 28, 20161 votes

i actually think this misconception started after complaining about their kits, makes it easier to try to justify your hatred. Truth be told, ive played toxic people on just about every single champ.

the most toxic person i ever met played brand. the second was a lulu. it varies person to person.

BoulderoxSep 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bish im saucin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bxKbw8ke,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-28T19:48:13.810+0000)

winnrate has fallen to 51% across ALL ranked play. healthy winrate.

48% winrate. below average bottom 50% of pool.

47%

46% he now has a lower winnrate than aatrox (albeit he is played far more, but there is still a point there)

a whopping 45% winnrate.

yet no one mentions champions that are genuinely too strong, such as who has had an amazing winrate for the last 2 months, especially in bronze - plat (falls to 51% in plat, still higher than all the champions we are constantly complaining about)

Why is it a trend to nitpick and want to tear down champions because "I don't like playing against them" Okay, i don't like getting counterpicked by pantheon. He is now toxic because he can block turret shots with his passive and he gains guaranteed critcal strikes.

You can make any champions kit sound toxic, the forums are just a bit late on the bandwagon hate for all champions mentioned.

flat winrate means jack shit i am sorry, you need to look at the champion based on winrate/loyalty IE

Zed has a 55% winrate with 51-100 games on him equating to a 1.85% of players that do this. and 55% is on the cusp of too powerful in many peoples eyes. This is why Azir Taliyah were nerfed hard, they had insane winrates for dedicated loyalty, but shit everywhere else.

In other words after 51-100 games: Zed 55.49-56.72% winrate (1.85/.66 loyalty) Riven 54.31-54.42% winrate (2.33/1.97 loyalty) Vayne 51.81-52.71% winrate ( 3.17/1.26 loyalty) Ekko 54.63-55.45% winrate (1.82/.66 loyalty) Yasuo 54.33-56.11% winrate (2.86/1.96 loyalty)

but look at Amumu 57% winrate... wow that is high, but wait... which is loyalty of 1.25/.56 meaning less hardcore amumu mains, and below every otherone listed above, these 5 champions are seen more frequently and do more and come out to above 50/50 winrates, which is good until it gets near 55% honestly.

his stats show he averages 5.24/5.24/11.93 K/D/A meaning the reason he is strong is BECAUSE he can set up for others to carry, amumu isn't the one carrying here which lots of people i feel mistake when they compare two different classes of champions, don't get me wrong that is strong as fuck, but he relies on his team to win in most cases, his tankyness helps, but he doesn't really get better, he is strong evenly across playrates really.

so no, your numbers are not useful, they are rough estimates, that does not equate to the level of strength a champ has, not even close.

edit note: also you have to thing of all the stupid shit that they all can do, amumu can tag one person, aoe stun, cry, and aoe damage, all the champs listed above have utility on top of high damage, meaning they can do more with said abilities than an amumu can, forums hates things that are annoying to deal with, and they all match the points, minus LeeSin