how about simply removing stealth from rengars ult ?

Knight SoIaire ·Aug 6, 2014·1 votes·284 views

and giving it a bigger burst of speed it would still be used as it is but it would allow rengar to be actualy ballanced

even the name of the skill "thrill of the hunt" does not kinda synergize with stealth which actualy poses a lot of problems when it comes to ballance a)if riot will allow you to be aware of rengar ulting your team will just cling ot eachother and rengars ult is wasted b)if rengar is allowed to use his ult its 100% sure kill in most cases of its use

removing the stealth would allow riot to tap some power into utility elements, like leap range, movement speed, and ferocity gain

riot strugless to save stealth because they think that its all that rengar has, i think they should be proven othervise cause rengar has an amazing kit

10 Comments

OmnipheriousAug 6, 20143 votes

and giving it a bigger burst of speed

This was being tested and the majority feedback from the public was, "We want stealth to stay."

The current version of Rengar is one that was shaped based on community feedback.

a)if riot will allow you to be aware of rengar ulting your team will just cling ot eachother and rengars ult is wasted

The indicator is meant to allow you to prepare yourself. If a team clusters up and gangs up on Rengar who solo dived 1v5, good on that team. Rengar should be punished for such foolery.

To say such an ult got wasted is an exaggeration. It's still a mini-TF ult, you still get Ferocity generation and MS while moving aggressively. Additionally, Rengar did this for 0 cost.

b)if rengar is allowed to use his ult its 100% sure kill in most cases of its use

Total exaggeration.

Rengar has ulted many times in professional games. Were most of them guaranteed kills? No, not even close.

Rengars ult in plenty of games. Assuming you hit Level 6 at 7 minutes and use ult immediately + on cooldown every instance after, that's supposedly at least 1 guaranteed kill every 2 minutes before Level 11 and more frequently after. Can you show stats that support your claim be it from Solo Queue or otherwise? If you can produce such results I will happily admit I'm wrong.

removing the stealth would allow riot to tap some power into utility elements, like leap range, movement speed, and ferocity gain

See first answer.

riot strugless to save stealth because they think that its all that rengar has, i think they should be proven othervise cause rengar has an amazing kit

Bias.

Knight SoIaire Aug 6, 20141 votes

The indicator is meant to allow you to prepare yourself. If a team clusters up and gangs up on Rengar who solo dived 1v5, good on that team. Rengar should be punished for such foolery.

i think that going down with your carry is not too much of a punishment

after all getting away after the kill should be a bonus for the assasin not his primary goal

OmnipheriousAug 6, 20141 votes

If Rengar goes down but takes the enemy carry with him, of course it's worth. Easily agree. You said your carry but I'm just assuming you mean the enemy carry since that makes more sense anyway.

My response was for OP after he/she insinuated that a Rengar who ults and is unable to dive in safely/effectively due to good positioning by the enemy accomplished nothing; which is untrue.

Knight SoIaire Aug 7, 20141 votes

im op

rengar usualy ults when he sees enemy carry out of position and himself being able to capitalize on it well thats how he should do

but if his ult wont yield him a kill he kinda loses it, detection rarely leads to something actualy meaningfull by itself, if team can capitalize on vision they will have wards and vision will not give anything more ,if not they will ignore all the input

OmnipheriousAug 7, 20141 votes

True, optimal usage is for a pick off as he is an assassin.

It still doesn't make it fair to say that an ult which does not yield a kill amounts to nothing. Remember, Rengar uses an ult at no cost.

Rengar ults and gets vision of opponents whereabouts, resource levels, nearby allies, etc. If is up to you and your team to capitalize on something. Since he does this at no cost, getting nothing apart from vision loses him nothing but some time. Compare this to a Nocturne, J4, Vi, all of which need to expend mana and/or reveal themselves to the enemy to even utilize their ultimates. Rengar has the benefit of not requiring to show himself or give away that he has no ult. He can simply go look for something elsewhere.

Also, vision is information and information is what wins games. If a Rengar ults mid and cancels a gank because the enemy jungler and support are nearby, this is valuable information for both top and bot. They now see that top and bot are isolated. They know that they have a window to make a play in safety. Alternatively, you didn't get a gank with the ult but you detected the enemy jungler recalling. Do dragon, invade, etc. The information the ult gives you is only meaningless for as long as you don't try to find any use for it.

Knight SoIaire Aug 7, 20141 votes

as i said ppl who could capitalize on it will prolly have it warded already and ppl who dont ward wont look at the map

OmnipheriousAug 7, 20141 votes

And as I said, the information is meaningless for as long as you don't try to find any use for it.

It is not a matter of whether your team already has it warded OR if *people who don't ward * were looking at the map. That is as irrelevant as the people who say they are stuck in Ranked because of teammates. Assuming the 9 other players are idiots, you are supposed to make the difference and help your team of idiots get the win.

As a good player, you make calls/update your team when you gain information. People weren't looking at the map? People weren't really paying attention? Big deal. Use pings, start moving somewhere and type info to them on the way. You saw the map, you saw the enemies so you make a call and make a play.

In the OP you make a confused argument both for and against Rengar; first, suggesting that he is imbalanced leaning towards strong due to stealth. Then, you go on to make a nitpick that suggests a lack of power while simultaneously making a contradicting generalization. Finally, you somehow manage to suggest adding more power because apparently the whole basis of your argument is that stealth is holding him back somehow.

Ignoring the sheer amount of confusion in your post, the very first part of my first response was; Rengar in his current state is the result of feedback from the community. The results were numerous and collected from both Rengar players and not.

I have also been trying to urge you to realize that the usefulness of Rengar's ultimate is not as simple as a hit-or-miss.

High Lord BlazeAug 6, 20142 votes

New title of the Post

How to Break Rengar Completely and Ensure that He is Never Played

Knight SoIaire Aug 6, 20141 votes

what rengars ult does now it closes the gap beetwen you and your enemy and allows you to position yourself perfectly and wait for the perfect moment to make your assasination both safe and efective

what would rengars ult do after the nerf close the gap faster but it would actualy rely on you knowing how to position yourself propertly instead of just waiting for the perfec situation

atm rengar camps the stealth until he sees an opening which allows him to get the perfect assasination
i would like rengars to have some knowledge on how to assasinate+ rengars ult would be usefull for diving (tap it and leap to the carry while his support is distracted)

it would make his ult similar to vi but he would be more kill than tank oriented, als it would allow for more interesting plays also removing power from his ult would allow to give more power into the rest of his kit

most of the problem rengar had after rework was lack of burst, rito fixed it but now we have a stabcat who appears out of nowhere and deletes your carry, rengars can fail their ult but most of the time it means that they die after they kill the carry

to summarize it would be a single person sivir ult mixed with noct ult (you dash and then leap), personaly i think that it would be more usefull practicaly, better for both escape and chase, while use in teamfights would still be sconsiderable but would remove the carry deleter playstyle in fawour of waiting for their carry to be of guard to just rush through everyone and kill him

Knight SoIaire Aug 6, 20141 votes

oh and i forgot he needs to have an animation when he runs on all four