Can we admit the jungle items have gotten worse this season, not better?

Linna Excel··4 votes·842 views

This was supposed to be riot's season of the jungle. They made the jungle more difficult, and everyone hated it. Then they changed the jungle items. One of the upgrades (poachers) is almost never used and is generally awful. The other three have a place. Stalkers is a bit problematic because now champs with smite get a free CC every 45 seconds.

  • Then they made cinderhulk. It made tanks more viable, but it was too strong and only the good tanks saw play. Now it is nerfed and tank junglers are going away because only the few good ones can survive. So making tank junglers relevant again failed because nerfs.
  • Then they created runeglaive. As the PoE vs GG match showed (also mid ezreal abusing it) it's causing problems in lane. Also mids and tops are stealing our bloody jungle camps as if being counter-jungled wasn't enough. It's also shifting objective control. You give up ignite for a second player who can steal a dragon/baron.
  • Now we've got the new sated devourer which some champs seem to be abusing.

Maybe it's time to throw out all the jungle items and start over. Let's be honest. There's 3 types types of junglers. Each type operates differently and has its own need for the first clear. That's the problem, the first clear or two. That's what's holding marginal AP and tank junglers back. Their only option is an item that wasn't meant to be used by them. To use a great example it's like asking AP mids and supports to start with a doran's BLADE. Doran's blade is just the wrong item for AP champs and supports to start with.

Take the tank jungle item, it needs to be very good at clearing for the first clear or two (until you upgrade it I guess). That's when tanks need clear speed. They also need a finished item that is good by itself and doesn't need X health items to become worth.

On the other hand, most AP junglers need help early because their AA's are weak and they are too reliant on spells for damage and the jungle doesn't like that for the first clear. However after the first clear, AP junglers need AP, Mana, and CDR more than they need help with AAs.

AD junglers don't need that much help because frankly machete was made for them.

6 Comments

FatesDefiler6 votes

i think this current jungle itemization is the best yet. they just need to fix poacher's by making it useful all of the time, like when your team starts losing, the way the others are. which pretty much means it must be castable on enemy champs. either like a mini-trundle ult, reduction of healing, something. i really like sated and even runeglaive, I hope warrior gets something to make it interesting too eventually.

Dr Poro1 votes

Poacher shouldn't exist. Counter junglers are cancer. They're extremely strong without poacher. They don't need a jungle item that fits them better. They can already make full use of the other items, the only way people are going to pick up poacher is if it becomes OP.

Teridax684 votes

For all the flaws with the current state of itemization, it's an order of magnitude better than the previous state of the jungle, which was far less diverse and far less interesting. Right before the jungle got overhauled, the only viable junglers were early-game gankers like LeeSin , JarvanIV and Evelynn , because at that time only the early game truly mattered and junglers had way too much early influence on lanes. Clearing and farming the jungle was far too easy, and the end result was a set of jungle items that were sub-par throughout the entire game due to the low risk involved. This also made farm jungling, counterjungling and invading impossible to make healthy, since farming was too safe, counterjungling didn't have sufficient counterplay and invading just boiled down to which jungler was strongest early on, and shut down more late-game-focused junglers even more.

Sure, item 3711 is useless, item 3708 is poorly designed and item 3931 is a bit too strong. Ultimately, though, those are issues that can be fixed by targeting the specific problems, and which will improve over time. You mentioned item 3725 as an example of a failure of new jungle itemization, but I think it's one of its greatest successes. Thanks to the enchantment, tank junglers are back on the map, and can jungle without having to sacrifice massive amounts of late-game resilience or even that much damage. item 3706 may have issues (and I think it's due to the burst damage and not the CC), but it's also helped out a lot of junglers who previously had no means of ganking pre-level 6. The jungle meta has never been so diverse, and junglers have never had as many options as they have now. Even though people complained at the difficulty of the new jungle, everyone quickly adapted to it and learned to appreciate the new bonuses such a difficulty could afford, namely the new items and camp-specific buffs. There's a whole laundry list of improvements I think could be done to the state of the new jungle, but in the end the changes have been a huge step forward, and I don't think there's any need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

For all the flaws with the current state of itemization, it's an order of magnitude better than the previous state of the jungle, which was far less diverse and far less interesting. Right before the jungle got overhauled, the only viable junglers were early-game gankers like LeeSin , JarvanIV and Evelynn , because at that time only the early game truly mattered and junglers had way too much early influence on lanes. Clearing and farming the jungle was far too easy, and the end result was a set of jungle items that were sub-par throughout the entire game due to the low risk involved. This also made farm jungling, counterjungling and invading impossible to make healthy, since farming was too safe, counterjungling didn't have sufficient counterplay and invading just boiled down to which jungler was strongest early on, and shut down more late-game-focused junglers even more.

Sure, item 3711 is useless, item 3708 is poorly designed and item 3931 is a bit too strong. Ultimately, though, those are issues that can be fixed by targeting the specific problems, and which will improve over time. You mentioned item 3725 as an example of a failure of new jungle itemization, but I think it's one of its greatest successes. Thanks to the enchantment, tank junglers are back on the map, and can jungle without having to sacrifice massive amounts of late-game resilience or even that much damage. item 3706 may have issues (and I think it's due to the burst damage and not the CC), but it's also helped out a lot of junglers who previously had no means of ganking pre-level 6. The jungle meta has never been so diverse, and junglers have never had as many options as they have now. Even though people complained at the difficulty of the new jungle, everyone quickly adapted to it and learned to appreciate the new bonuses such a difficulty could afford, namely the new items and camp-specific buffs. There's a whole laundry list of improvements I think could be done to the state of the new jungle, but in the end the changes have been a huge step forward, and I don't think there's any need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I largely agree with your post but would just like to point out that people didn't "quickly adapt to the jungle". People hated it... right up until they nerfed the damage that a variety of the monsters did during the first clear and buffed jungle income. The jungle legitimately was too tough for a long time, they just eventually got it into a more solid place. People weren't just complaining for no reason.

That said I think the jungle's in an OK position now, I don't think I have too much to complain about. I'd consider taking a serious look at the different empowered smites because I'm pretty sure they're the one and only reason that the jungle items have seen so much play in lane this year, and honestly I'm not sure junglers deserve as much power as those smites contain at the moment. But the enchants feel great aside from Warrior which is kinda boring. The AP and tank enchants are so much better than the earlier iterations they had this year. And Sated Devourer... I'm not sure on, but I think it can be healthy.

Krystorr1 votes

While runeglaive makes it so that I no longer need blue buff, I do miss the pure AP magus gave.

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