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Hey riot, can we give titanic hydra and other juggernaut offensive items additive base ad?

kasfas··22 votes·1,968 views

It shouldn't change the fact that they are good on champions who want them, while taking away their efficiency on champions who SHOULDN'T USE THEM. (I.e. Fiora, most adcs, and other ad carries.)

What I mean is, instead of titanic giving + 50 bonus AD, it will give + 50 base AD.

It would be beneficial to do this on every item built out of jarum's fist, and potentially BC, but that one is up to what testing says about it.

What do you guys think? Yea or Nae?

Also, if a red sees this who worked on these juggernaut items, was there a reason not to give flat amounts of base AD or was it just not thought of?

Edit: realizing that this may make spell blade items a LOT better, we might have to nerf them in the base AD area, and give them more of something else. This would also nerf champions like GP who loves his sheen/triforce procs, and Blue ezreal, given he always buys IBG. Also corki who we know has been a very good pick lately.

24 Comments

EndlessSorcerer11 votes

Considering how many extra damage it adds to Spellblade procs, I'd really rather there not be too many items providing base AD.

kasfas2 votes

True, but that's a matter of one item, not multiple. Also, we could tone down spellblade items to compensate. It would be a reasonable nerf to GP as well, because his fav item is triforce.

The Loveless3 votes

No. Non-bruisers like Corki and Ez are good because of how triforce currently is. They'll suck (even more) if it's nerfed for them. Also it'd be a horrible feeling to invest close to 4k gold on TF only for it to really be good after buying more items to boost base ad. That would also gimp you if you bought TF, forcing you to buy these fist items instead of other items like spirit visage, warmogs etc.

Big Lincoln8 votes

They'll suck (even more) if it's nerfed for them.

implying that these champs aren't ridiculously good right now

Ratbert1 votes

Yeah because of trinity. Like he said in his post. If you nerf trinity, they'll suck again.

Old Man Teeto1 votes

Ezreal builds trinity?

I only see this wonky thingitem 3025 EVERY game on him.

The Loveless1 votes

No damage until about 20 minutes in. So fun.

Let the sheep build what they want. Doesn't mean they know what's optimally strong.

The Loveless1 votes

You want to talk about ridiculously good marksmen? Graves MissFortune Jinx Kalista Vayne Lucian Kindred Jhin

Mandang01 votes

Broken with sterak's too.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Considering how many extra damage it adds to Spellblade procs, I'd really rather there not be too many items providing base AD.

then just change the way spellblade scales.

give it a flat value and a total ad scaling.

or just put a hard cap on it. that would probably be the easiest solution. you still get better spellblade procs for melees, but it cant go past 320 or something like that. it cant be that difficult to do.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Considering how many extra damage it adds to Spellblade procs, I'd really rather there not be too many items providing base AD.

If Sheen is too abusable with additional base damage, it can just be changed to dealing 50-100 (100-200 on Trinity) flat damage based on level.

No big loss there.

ChargeItDownMid3 votes

[deleted]

kasfas1 votes

The thing is, once this is done other champs can be looked into (like assasins are currently, with their dusk blade of drakthar) and given new items, or just straight buffed separately. This allows riot more flexibility in what they can do with each class of champion without consequently buffing or nerfing another class. This would also promote strategic purchases rather than just: "This item is really good on anyone with attack speed or auto resets (ala titanic hydra) so I need to get it." In this way, champions would be LESS pigeon holes to certain items and builds, like renekton almost always getting titanic and BC, or Yi getting titanic and DMP.

Also worth noting that he most meta builds, for melee adcs or offtank bruisers, include titanic hydra. That's where these changes come to effect champions. Removing it's GREAT value from champions who shouldn't be able to make such good use of it as they currently are, and placing it where it was originally meant to go, opens up paths of interest elsewhere.

AwesomeChad3 votes

Or how about this: We change the dynamic of how champions scale off of their abilities and the stats that items give. So many champions have "TOTAL AD RATIOS" but we can fix this by changing the ratios to bonus AD (even giving it a better multiplier to compensate early game) and we change up whether some items give "bonus AD" or "base AD". This is just further input on the idea of changing up how AD affects champion abilities.

Your idea isn't bad but it's not complete. What difference does it make when a champion has scaling off of total ad anyways? Or if riot wants to really control the type of champions that buy item 3748 , then they should nerf the base AD and improve the health scaling on the passive/active. Your plan is also flawed in the sense that you're trying to neglect build DIVERSITY. Each item needs to have some distinction on when to buy it. So if a fiora wants to buy this item, well, she should realize that the rest of her build should reflect that (thus, why i mentioned a better hp scaling ratios on the passive/active). It shouldn't be un-viable. And thus, we have this itemization "balancing" that also allows for players to build unique builds.

kasfas2 votes

I like that idea, but the problem is the item itself. Titanic hydra is simply too good on melee carries and fighters alike, where everyone with good attack speed, an attack speed steroid, auto resets, or potentially all 3, take extreme advantage of this item. I understand that quite a few changes would need to be made, but when it comes to champions who are intended to be melee carries like Fiora; titanic shouldn't be such a good buy that it allows her to build tanky and output as much damage as she does. It's not just Fiora however. Most meta builds for renekton, master yi and other melee carries and fighters include this item, and while it SHOULD be a good to great buy on fighters, it shouldn't be on melee carries. At best, it should be ok, that mostly being because ravenous hydra is built specifically for melee carries, but titanic outclasses it so hard that everyone prefers it over ravenous (unless they are ahead, or can afford to play aggressively) .

Overall, I want to INCREASE the build diversity of melee carries and fighters alike, in taking away this supreme item, and allowing for more open builds. That was the intention of this idea.

+1 for the constructive criticism

FortisDominus3 votes

No, the items are fine

Blackwindy2 votes

So if I buy it on Darius, I lose my ult dmg.

TekkenPlayer1 votes

Ever seen riven with titanic and maw? Yeah not a good day

Saianna1 votes

Wouldn't nerfing Fiora be easier and healthier for game?

Nagoh Shan1 votes

Honestly they should do this just to give the people complaining lately what they deserve.

At least then they'd stop complaining about Fiora.

DevlinCrow1 votes

Sorry I don't understand, but what's the difference between bonus and base? Don't they both just add the same AD?

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

{quoted}

Sorry I don't understand, but what's the difference between bonus and base? Don't they both just add the same AD?

Bonus ad is the ad from buffs, items and runes. Some abilities scale with total ad while others scale off bonus ad. So if all your abilities scale off just bonus ad then any items increasing base ad would only increase the damage of your auto attacks and not your abilities.

Paroe1 votes

Cant we make titanic hydra fill the niche of atmas impaler...? 1.5% gives it roughly the same AD for end-game tanks, and we can also incorporate the base AD bonus idea.

Mandang01 votes

If melee champions want damage, make them build damage. Titanic hydra is already more than generous for how safe a purchase it is.

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