Why are the a good # of them hyper mobile with insanely low CDs and free stats/passives/sustain all through their kits? Which of them truly PAY for being resourceless?
Riven Yasuo Garen (you can't deny that regen) Mundo (the new freelo, albeit not mobile) Katarina Tryndamere Rek'sai (pre-nerfs) Renekton (2 free dashes, innate sustain, while being tanky)
Battalion4 votesRiven Yasuo Garen (you can't deny that regen) Mundo (the new freelo, albeit not mobile) Katarina Tryndamere Rek'sai (pre-nerfs) Renekton (2 free dashes, innate sustain, while being tanky)
Riven:
Yasuo: -Currently in a broken state, as is Tryndamere, solely on the fact of some masteries and a passive that gives him 2x Critical Chance. However once he's out of lane Yasuo severely falls off, he only dominates lanes and I expect to see nerfs in the future.
Garen:
-Zone control 
Mundo:
Katarina:
Heavy CC: 
Tryndamere:
work pretty wellRek'sai:
Pre-nerfs
^ This is not even remotely relevant since it's been addressed.
Renekton:
as well as armor based items
Why are the a good # of them hyper mobile with insanely low CDs and free stats/passives/sustain all through their kits? Which of them truly PAY for being resourceless?
They are hyper-mobile and have low CD's AND huge amounts of cost for the small pools of Energy that they use.
You can build him one of two ways:
If you build him #1 then all you need is to build armor and use CC. He needs to get close and to get close he needs to expend his escape or use an activated item, as well as using energy.
If you build him #2 then 
can be used to mitigate most if not all of the damage output from Zed.
See the thing you're failing to realize is that most energy champions have high prices to pay that aren't on a bar or immediately obvious. Dig deeper and you'll see that Manaless champions often get the short end of the stick especially in prolonged team fights.
Before you say i'm a energy/rage/cd champion user just trying to make excuses, check my match history you'll see happy bird emperor. http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/9e73/bmjbc26mdfsgjuszg.jpg
Wind Whistler2 votesWas gonna downvote you originally, but then I saw how dedicated you were to Azir, so I upvoted
Battalion2 votesI honestly think energy champions are near a good place, I don't think it's energy that is the problem, more-over how the individual's kit interacts with energy.
I'm actually not a fan of Cool-down reduction based champions. The only one I play is 
, though he seems to be pretty balanced right now.
Wind Whistler1 votesI honestly think energy champions are near a good place, I don't think it's energy that is the problem, more-over how the individual's kit interacts with energy.
I'm actually not a fan of Cool-down reduction based champions. The only one I play is
The reason I was going to downvote was because of false information. Blitzcrank, Lulu, Wukong, Bard, Azir, and ESPECIALLY Ziggs don't have that much cc, and grievous wounds don't do much to stop Renekton.
Battalion2 votesThey all have abilities that interrupt
Ziggs' timebomb displaces/knocks up enemies and allies
Blitzcrank has a silence and a knock up and a pull, all of which interrupt or stop abilities from being cast
Bard has his ultimate that is the be all end all of CC; stasis
Azir has a knock up and knock back from his R
Wukong has a knock up from his R, which is a pretty decent length as well as well as it being an AoE that is mobile
Lulu has a polymorph
Grevious wounds cuts down on Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R and does do well to stop him, especially when built with other items such as BotRK and
Wind Whistler2 votesThey all have abilities that interrupt
Ziggs' timebomb displaces/knocks up enemies and allies Blitzcrank has a silence and a knock up and a pull, all of which interrupt or stop abilities from being cast Bard has his ultimate that is the be all end all of CC; stasis Azir has a knock up and knock back from his R Wukong has a knock up from his R, which is a pretty decent length as well as well as it being an AoE that is mobile Lulu has a polymorph Grevious wounds cuts down on Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R and does do well to stop him, especially when built with other items such as BotRK and
It's better to stun/silence her, since she can do a lot of damage even without her ultimate.
Also, what the fuck do you mean Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R? Since when did he have that?
Wind Whistler2 votesThey all have abilities that interrupt
Ziggs' timebomb displaces/knocks up enemies and allies Blitzcrank has a silence and a knock up and a pull, all of which interrupt or stop abilities from being cast Bard has his ultimate that is the be all end all of CC; stasis Azir has a knock up and knock back from his R Wukong has a knock up from his R, which is a pretty decent length as well as well as it being an AoE that is mobile Lulu has a polymorph Grevious wounds cuts down on Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R and does do well to stop him, especially when built with other items such as BotRK and
It's better to stun/silence her, since she can do a lot of damage even without her ultimate.
Also, what the fuck do you mean Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R? Since when did he have that?
Wind Whistler2 votesThey all have abilities that interrupt
Ziggs' timebomb displaces/knocks up enemies and allies Blitzcrank has a silence and a knock up and a pull, all of which interrupt or stop abilities from being cast Bard has his ultimate that is the be all end all of CC; stasis Azir has a knock up and knock back from his R Wukong has a knock up from his R, which is a pretty decent length as well as well as it being an AoE that is mobile Lulu has a polymorph Grevious wounds cuts down on Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R and does do well to stop him, especially when built with other items such as BotRK and
It's better to stun/silence her, since she can do a lot of damage even without her ultimate.
Also, what the fuck do you mean Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R? Since when did he have that?
Wind Whistler2 votesThey all have abilities that interrupt
Ziggs' timebomb displaces/knocks up enemies and allies Blitzcrank has a silence and a knock up and a pull, all of which interrupt or stop abilities from being cast Bard has his ultimate that is the be all end all of CC; stasis Azir has a knock up and knock back from his R Wukong has a knock up from his R, which is a pretty decent length as well as well as it being an AoE that is mobile Lulu has a polymorph Grevious wounds cuts down on Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R and does do well to stop him, especially when built with other items such as BotRK and
It's better to stun/silence her, since she can do a lot of damage even without her ultimate.
Also, what the fuck do you mean Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R? Since when did he have that?
Wind Whistler2 votesThey all have abilities that interrupt
Ziggs' timebomb displaces/knocks up enemies and allies Blitzcrank has a silence and a knock up and a pull, all of which interrupt or stop abilities from being cast Bard has his ultimate that is the be all end all of CC; stasis Azir has a knock up and knock back from his R Wukong has a knock up from his R, which is a pretty decent length as well as well as it being an AoE that is mobile Lulu has a polymorph Grevious wounds cuts down on Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R and does do well to stop him, especially when built with other items such as BotRK and
It's better to stun/silence her, since she can do a lot of damage even without her ultimate.
Also, what the fuck do you mean Renekton's passive lifesteal from his R? Since when did he have that?
Dinko3 votesLet me add a few more mana-less champs to your list. Since you seem to have left them out.
Rumble Lee Sin Zed Aatrox Akali Kennen Mordekaiser Shen Vladimir Zac
Why would you need to pay to be mana-less anyways? A lot of these champions (all of them?) can be outplayed by almost anybody else.
InSingedWeTrust1 votesLet me add a few more mana-less champs to your list. Since you seem to have left them out.
Rumble Lee Sin Zed Aatrox Akali Kennen Mordekaiser Shen Vladimir Zac
Why would you need to pay to be mana-less anyways? A lot of these champions (all of them?) can be outplayed by almost anybody else.
The majority of them have a resource. Rumble is limited by Heat. Lee Sin/Zed/Akali/Kennen/Shen by energy, although they are all pretty mobile. Morde by HP, and the fact that he's jungle fodder. Vlad, Zac, and Aatrox are really the only true manaless on that list.
Scryer2 votes[{quoted}](name=Da Velkozby Show,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bq7NeQUu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-28T04:05:03.096+0000)
The majority of them have a resource. Rumble is limited by Heat. Lee Sin/Zed/Akali/Kennen/Shen by energy, although they are all pretty mobile. Morde by HP, and the fact that he's jungle fodder. Vlad, Zac, and Aatrox are really the only true manaless on that list.
Vlad, Zac, and Aatrox all have abilities that tax their health.
Bonipherus2 votesNot sure you really mean manaless. Could you mean resourceless? For example Rumble is manaless but is balanced around his unique heat gauge and there are also energy champs who have no mana restrictions but cdr isn't effective on them due to this. Also, they sort of have less than optimal items because of these downsides. Mana champions have a tougher early game but should scale better in utility due to cdr and mana options that are more readily available to them.
InSingedWeTrust1 votesNot sure you really mean manaless. Could you mean resourceless? For example Rumble is manaless but is balanced around his unique heat gauge and there are also energy champs who have no mana restrictions but cdr isn't effective on them due to this. Also, they sort of have less than optimal items because of these downsides. Mana champions have a tougher early game but should scale better in utility due to cdr and mana options that are more readily available to them.
Yeah, bad working on my part. Meant resourceless.
Hierarch of Aiur2 votesLet's see...
Riven becomes shitty against any silence
Yasuo is worthless against tanks and projectile-less champions (a lot of champs have no projectiles)
Garen can be kited for days
Mundo is very weak versus mobile champions with percent health damage
Katarina can't take a punch for shit
Tryndamere can be killed while ulting with true damage, and can be kited due to long ass cooldowns
Since you say pre-nerf Rek'sai, why even bother if it's past that
Renekton can also be kited for days and is weak versus percent health damage champions
TheLastShadow451 votesTryndamere can be killed while ulting with true damage
no,no he cannot. You can get him to 1hp but that's it.
Wind Whistler1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hierarch of Aiur,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bq7NeQUu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-28T04:32:13.776+0000)
Let's see...
Riven becomes shitty against any silence
Yasuo is worthless against tanks and projectile-less champions (a lot of champs have no projectiles)
Garen can be kited for days
Mundo is very weak versus mobile champions with percent health damage
Katarina can't take a punch for shit
Tryndamere can be killed while ulting with true damage, and can be kited due to long ass cooldowns
Since you say pre-nerf Rek'sai, why even bother if it's past that
Renekton can also be kited for days and is weak versus percent health damage champions
Renekton? Kited? Do you know how much distance he can cover with his E? Also, why is he weak versus % health damage?
ZephyrDrake1 votes[{quoted}](name=Wind Whistler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bq7NeQUu,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2015-11-28T06:27:03.822+0000)
Renekton? Kited? Do you know how much distance he can cover with his E? Also, why is he weak versus % health damage?
his E only covers a decent distance if there is something he can use to activate the second use of it. Renekton is very easily kitable and is only useful in the early game and unless he gets fed beyond belief he will fall off the longer the game goes
Wind Whistler1 voteshis E only covers a decent distance if there is something he can use to activate the second use of it. Renekton is very easily kitable and is only useful in the early game and unless he gets fed beyond belief he will fall off the longer the game goes
His E covers more distance than Kha's evolved E if he gets to activate it the second time. Even if he only gets to use it once, it still covers a fair amount of distance, and if you get caught within his grasp and there's no one to stun, knockup, or knockback him, you can probably kiss your ass goodbye.
Hierarch of Aiur1 votesALL tanks and hefty champs are weak to percent health damage because they rely on the normal damage someone does to them to not be much because of their health, armor, and mr. Percent health damage ignores that.
Wind Whistler1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hierarch of Aiur,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bq7NeQUu,comment-id=000300010001,timestamp=2015-11-28T07:03:17.462+0000)
ALL tanks and hefty champs are weak to percent health damage because they rely on the normal damage someone does to them to not be much because of their health, armor, and mr. Percent health damage ignores that.
Depends if you build tanky or not, to be honest. Renekton is better to go almost completely full AD because of the great itemization that's available, his great ratios, and the overall nerf of armor items. The only tanky items I use are Black Cleaver, Ninja Tabi, and Maw Of Malmortius.
Aeolian Melodies2 votesKatarina is only "insanely mobile" if she gets a quick multi-kill.
MilfHuntUnitXJ92 votesyou forgot Vlad bro
