If you've been having trouble tackling the tank meta, pick Trundle

Z Statistic··34 votes·2,851 views

Just a few pointers about his ultimate:

It does not steal 20% resistance now and 20% over 4 seconds. Rather, it behaves extremely oddly and differently than any other shred in the game.

  1. The system checks what amount of armor and magic resist you have at the point of impact.
  2. The system then calculates 40% of that number and divides it by half (then stores it into 2 variables as floats, probably as "Initial" and "DoT").
  3. The system applies Initial immediately and then applies DoT into several steps over 4 seconds BOTH to your target and yourself.
  4. 4 seconds after DoT has finished, both you and your target instantly revert to the previous values before the cast.

Much of this is implied or directly contradicted by the wiki, but it is right because I have tested it. The wiki is incorrect in some aspects. Trundle was ignored by Riot for years, so it has been by the wiki community ;-;

Some implications of this design:

  1. the shred does not update. Where BC modifies the target's current armor by -5%/stack, Trundle's ult modifies it by a float that is calculated by a %.
  2. What this means is that once you fire that ult, it is going to shred what you would have expected at the beginning and is completely independent from every other source.
  3. If Leona is stacking resistances and W's for a total of 230 armor and you ult her when she has 1 second left, you will drain a total of 92 armor. When her ult wears off and she is sitting at 130 armor, you will still be draining 92 armor, leaving her with a pitiful 38 armor. I use Leona as an example because she gets bonus armor from her W for building armor, but this is equally true of every temporary armor/mr buff champion like Xin Zhao, Malphite, Rammus, Galio, Braum, and others.
  4. The reverse is also true. If you ult Leona while she has 130 armor and then she W's, you will only shred 52 armor, leaving her with 178 armor, which is even less of a drain than if you just waited until she W'ed (138).
  5. You gain armor/mr equal to the numerical shred. Thus, you will receive more armor/mr when Leona's W's than when she doesn't AND it will not update to reflect the buff falling off (or if she uses it after you ulted.)
  6. I assume Trundle's ult factors into the order of operations for pen/shred as such:

Trundle ult = weird ass instantaneously mathy magical shit ---- Flat shred -> %shred -> %Pen -> Flat pen

The first differentiation is more or less moot. Trundle's ult is essentially FLAT shred that is based off of 40% of the target's INITIAL resistances. So you're just applying 1 instance of flat shred before another, which is mathematically the same. However, if you were to ult someone before abyssal scepter's aura is applied, you would get more shred than if it was already applied when you ulted. So when you ult, the flat shred's value is based on the initial armor, but mathematically the initial shred is applied BEFORE any successive shreds. So, the only way to delete leona's armor would be if 40% of her armor with her W was greater than 100% of her armor without W. BC applied directly after Trundle's ult will not lower her armor to 0 (my theory.) 7. Because it doesn't directly steal anything, just calculate stuff, your fates are not intertwined. If you die, they still get shredded. If they die, you still get buffed resistances. Not sure about getting healed because that DOES get updated live (his ult will remain the same in respect to % hp if Lulu! ults the target.) Still experimenting. But regardless, ULT THE TANK WHEN THEIR BUFFS ARE ABOUT TO WEAR OFF. THEN BLOW THEM INTO THE 9TH DIMENSION. Ulting the tank and then trying to keep them alive so you can "drain" them is unnecessary. If you can blow them up, then do it. Then tank all the shit with your awesome armor buff.

So ult responsibly and remember,

You can never bash something too many times. -Trundle

26 Comments

Earthlord Jazz6 votes

I did not know the nitty gritty of Trundle R to that extent. This was quite useful, thank you

Laraso6 votes

My problem with him is that his kit is very uninteresting and all he really does is auto attack. There are other auto attack based champs that have much more obvious abilities and far more interesting kits (Tryndamere Kayle Yasuo etc), while Trundle literally just has 3 abilities that give him free stats and the only slightly interesting ability is his ice pillar.

Yea he shreds tanks and wins duels, but he's boring to play and boring to fight, is kited easily and doesn't really make too big of a difference in team fights.

Durzaka5 votes

The thing with Trundle is he isnt a tank killer. He is a tank buster. He makes the enemy tank less effective so your teams damage can kill them, why he becomes a front line for your team.

And most people dont understand that and use him wrong.

SpecterVonBaren5 votes

If he buys this item 3153 then he is a tank killer.

MasterVidallis1 votes

The issue is it's hard to build BORK plus hydra and be tanky enough, and I find hydra more effective on him because of his complete lack of AOE in his kit. Hydra enables him to clear waves effectively, split push like a boss and increases his damage and lifesteal in team fights by quite a bit since his autos hit hard as hell and he tends to be right in the middle of the fight getting a lot of AOE hits.

Durzaka2 votes

{quoted}

If he buys this item 3153 then he is a tank killer.

Did you know that BotRK is more effective against squishy targets than it is against tanks?

Buying it doesnt instantly make you melt tanks, it needs a lot more support than that.

Psi211 votes

The BoRK has a terrible cooldown and duration.

Ensuring that tanks sporting a cindhuck have little to worry from Non-Tank buster ADC like Vayne and Kog.

These tanks really are getting out of hand.

Jasiwel4 votes

Trundle is a good pick right now. He is considerably underrated and I'm really surprised I don't see him more...but when I do he uses his pillars with deadly efficiency and it makes me question balance purely because the only people playing Trundle right now know how to play him to his fullest. He is a good champion, despite what anyone seems to say about his history.

Lugg3 votes

Damn it man, don't tell the world the greatness of Trundle. I want him to stay a secret.

YOU BEEN WARNED3 votes

I've played him way too many times, he's like the Aatrox of immobile fighters. He's meh at every stage in the game and his ult is glorified; highly over rated. That 4 second DoT duration feels so weak and short it's basically worthless unless you're ahead or the target is out of position.

And by that I mean way too many times, I have over 500 games as Trundle total.

IMO he should be picked for two reasons

1: his split push potential with item 3078 which Nasus outdamages while Jax does it more safely.

2: his pillar in teamfight, which is not rewarding because it's hard as fuck to land and it is semi-worthless VS mobile targets. I'd rather use KarmaVladimir Rumble for more effective zone of control slows.

N30NP4NDA1 votes

Splitpush Kassadin . they can send their whole team to kill you and you just blink away with your 1.2 second cd ult.

whensmarvel2 votes

I'm in silver V, I like playing him top because a lot of people are unfamiliar with what he can do, they stack AD, not knowing Trundle leeches AD and he is good in extended fights. If the enemy doesn't have ignite they will lose a lot of trades post 6.

Z Statistic10 votes

Except that's perfectly fine. By not building AD, you are letting trundle reduce your damage by a larger amount. Saying you shouldn't build AD vs Trundle is like saying you shouldn't build Armor vs Pantheon with brutalizer.

Ariel the Cruel7 votes

Trundle's Q steals a flat amount of AD. So buying AD doesn't actually hurt them in any way.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

I'm shocked that Trundle isn't played more, he seems like an extremely good top laner or even jungler due to his tankiness and anti-tank abilities, good sustain, spams slows at you and is a bit difficult to get away from.

WutsKraken2 votes

Trundle is amazing in this tank meta. I'm amazed the tank hating sheep don't understand he can cut them down AND can stand his ground even vs squishy high damage laners and be a front-line/anti-carry in his own right

The only AA fighters who comes to mind who can straight up beat Trundle in extended fights are Poppy andJax , Poppy is a niche in this meta, Jax is awful in it. And no, 10k stack Nasus to 1-shot Trundle is not realistic. Trundle can build tons of armor and then get more armor off of Nasus to make Nasus' precious 800 stacks do nothing to him. Buy item 3075 to make it tougher

So really Trundle will crush apart most people 1v1 when splitpushing these days

Silents4291 votes

I mained trundle then took a break from him, Came back and he is SO SLOW.

Seriously his basic attack animation is wack, when it should hit it doesn't? It like doesn't count as a hit until after his club is past instead of when it actually hits them, and it is difficult to last hit and fight with.

His Q needs a few mili seconds shaved off, it takes a long time to get off too.

These aren't even "buffs" really more QOL fixes, I don't know why he is so slow when it comes to animations.

Z Statistic3 votes

Probably because he is bar none the best AA trader in the game. If you don't have a spell that ignores minions as melee, he will destroy you. Heck, even if you're ranged, if you let him get on you, he will melt you.

SH Azykan1 votes

Good info, did not know that was how it worked and now I do. Now to make sure I remember it when i see a trundle O.o

Resiakedrøm1 votes

My one problem with him then is the same problem he has now, of how ridiculously easy it is too kite him.

Ideally you want him to ulti a tank then go after squishes, however its just so hard for him. He gets caught in AoE really easily, usually buys bork so he isn't as tanky as most others and doesn't offer any meaningful cc to contribute to a fight. At this point I consider him a subpar splitpusher.

What good is a tank killer if he doesn't bring any meaningful cc of his own, and isn't able to effectively lock down squishes? Sure you can melt through a malphite, but what good does it do when hes already got in an ulti and e and done his job for the fight.

Don't get me wrong against some comps where he is able to reach squishes hes a total monster. I'd say 1v3 powerlevels even. Hes a niche pick that can work against the right team but I wouldn't consider him specifically good Vs the tank meta.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well he doesn't actually have to get to the squishes though he can just ult the enemy tank and gain HP (healing) and Armor/MR and the enemy tank lose HP and Armor/MR So Trundle is likely to survive longer then the enemy tank so then his team can now assist trundle... or trundle could bail and leave his team in a 4v4

Z Statistic1 votes

What is this obsession with diving? Break the frontline ASAP then bumrush the backline. Even Tristana can't peel herself more than 2 twice. If you have 3 tanky people as Trundle, ult their tank, E their carry, then back off. When the tank chases you, turn on him for some damage. If the tank should try to escape, your ADC and mage should have some cc to keep him from escaping.

Kiting is the name of the game.

Captain Aishi1 votes

if you really want to tackle tanks, i'd recommend poppy :D (but seriously, her poor laning phase is under much less kill pressure from a tank than from a more damage oriented champ, meaning she can scale more safely, and her ult allows her to ignore all the CC these tanks bring into teamfights and do what poppy does, delete whoever she wants to see gone from the fight)

The Loveless1 votes

In theory he's good, but I shat on him and a Nasus in separate games. These tanky tank-killers aren't ezpeezy, broham

ShaftyMegee1 votes

Trundle is suuuuch an anti tank :). I approve

Xelvi1 votes

He's still very hard to play well. I've played a ton of Trundle games and he by no means is anywhere near a free win even in this 'tank-meta' because I still see a huge amount of super high damage, high mobility assassins being played and they are very difficult to play around as Trundle.

Things like Vayne/Kalista absolutely shit on him too.

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