Are melee champions still good?

Mira Arya Enthe·Sep 17, 2016·3 votes·552 views

To be precise, this is excluding assassins and the other hypermobile fighters like Yasuo and Ekko. It seems like champions who's job it is to get in melee range, and stay in melee range. Just suffer a lot this season. Some examples being...

To me, it has just felt like it is disadvantageous to pick these champions anymore. Because there is somebody that is more mobile or ranged or bursty(or all three) who can just do their job much much better. Auto Attack melees have especially suffered the most in my eyes. This may be a 'Silver' thing, perhaps at higher ELO it isn't a problem. But with their low play rates plat+ on Champion.gg I think it is at all ranks that most of these champions are doing bad in terms of reliably performing well comparitive to other options.

17 Comments

MissingKayoSep 17, 20162 votes

They're pretty much only good in low ELO with the exception of a few because anyone at high ELO knows how to kite and CC them, as well as counterbuild if necessary.

Critmaster GarenSep 17, 20162 votes

{quoted}

They're pretty much only good in low ELO with the exception of a few because anyone at high ELO knows how to kite and CC them, as well as counterbuild if necessary.

this was generally true in every season, but they werent generally as weak as they are this season. (or at least this half of the season).

i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that these champions scale well with defense, and season 6 doesnt have a defensive mastery tree anymore. all the actual defensive masteries that granted flat resistances, damage reduction in some shape or form got removed. instead we got a second utility mastery tree with some slight health regen, and a damage keystone for fighters. the only actual defensive masteries that are left are heavily nerfed versions of previous seasons and not worth picking. and the 2 keystones that actually grant health and damage reduction are targeted at junglers and supports.

either way, they still cant compare with fervor. it takes 3 fervor procs to completely delete the health bonus from strenth of the ages, which a lot of carries can do in less of a second.

some of the champions on that list have also been nerfed directly, and some indirectly with nerfs to their items, without giving them compensation.

then there is also item 3116 on every ap champ which enforces a mobility meta, since it destroys slow melee champs. ive been in a game against a Sivir Xerath with item 3022

i could have basically been going afk. it was impossible to move in teamfights. i just literally died every time without doing anything due to being permaslowed. you cant fight back, you cant escape you just slowly watch your health bar going down.

they need to hotfix those items and make them melee only for the time being, and not wait until season 7.

Mira Arya EntheSep 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bjce9Zok,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-09-17T19:43:35.540+0000)

this was generally true in every season, but they werent generally as weak as they are this season. (or at least this half of the season).

i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that these champions scale well with defense, and season 6 doesnt have a defensive mastery tree anymore. all the actual defensive masteries that granted flat resistances, damage reduction in some shape or form got removed. instead we got a second utility mastery tree with some slight health regen, and a damage keystone for fighters. the only actual defensive masteries that are left are heavily nerfed versions of previous seasons and not worth picking. and the 2 keystones that actually grant health and damage reduction are targeted at junglers and supports.

either way, they still cant compare with fervor. it takes 3 fervor procs to completely delete the health bonus from strenth of the ages, which a lot of carries can do in less of a second.

some of the champions on that list have also been nerfed directly, and some indirectly with nerfs to their items, without giving them compensation.

then there is also on every ap champ which enforces a mobility meta, since it destroys slow melee champs.

Melee champions such as Udyr and Shyvana and Volibear and Jax use to see LCS play. It is a progression as the game has added more effective kiting tools, more bursty mobile champions and more power and tools for ranged champions.

Critmaster GarenSep 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bjce9Zok,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-17T19:51:51.499+0000)

Melee champions such as Udyr and Shyvana and Volibear and Jax use to see LCS play. It is a progression as the game has added more effective kiting tools, more bursty mobile champions and more power and tools for ranged champions.

its not progression. its just a change into the wrong direction due to masteries and broken items.

its just a buttload of indirect changes to the game, that heavily skewed balance in favour of ranged and mobile champions, while generally increasing damage in the game.

doesnt mean the situation cant be fixed.

and if anything, auto attacking champions are favoured the msot this season due to how ridiculous fervor is.

Mira Arya EntheSep 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bjce9Zok,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-17T19:53:01.080+0000)

its not progression. its just a change into the wrong direction due to masteries and broken items.

Progression, as in it has continually moved in that direction for a while now.

Critmaster GarenSep 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bjce9Zok,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-17T19:54:18.108+0000)

Progression, as in it has continually moved in that direction for a while now.

but that dosnt mean it cant be changed back. a good start would be to fix rylais and mallet, and make an actual defensive mastery tree for season 7.

MissingKayoSep 17, 20162 votes

The addition of Keystones was a terrible idea in my opinion, just saying.

Mira Arya EntheSep 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The addition of Keystones was a terrible idea in my opinion, just saying.

Agreed

Privileged JewSep 17, 20161 votes

Amumu Elise Irelia Darius Yorick Gangplank Hecarim

All melee, all considered strong picks.

MissingKayoSep 17, 20162 votes

Amumu - A lot better in low ELO Elise - She's an amazing jungler with incredible versatility and good ganks Irelia -She's melee but she's well-rounded and has a strong enough kit to dash to said ranged carries in the first place, as well as being able to build bruiser Darius - lolno Yorick - Are you joking? GP - Let's forget about him being able to range poke with Q and Bandit interaction for 10 gold per shot which can chunk heavily after Sheen, true damage burn on autos, his ranged barrels, and his global ultimate Hecarim - Because him being able to dash almost half a lane's length and charge into someone much faster than they can run doesn't exist apparently.

YCitizenSnipsYSep 17, 20162 votes

http://www.champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Top

Just so you know Darius is the third most picked top and fourth most banned top. If it isn't because he is strong then tell me why the high pick and high ban?

MissingKayoSep 17, 20161 votes

Because he's still annoying as hell to play against in laning phase, especially for melees?

But then a jungler comes, Darius gets CC'd and hit with damage, and is either forced to back or just dies, because good players would back out of his range before he could simply Q them both to heal back up. And come teamfights, he gets CC'd and shredded from range before he does anything. High pick/ban has little to do with actual strength. Pick/ban is only relevant to perception of strength or otherwise just popularity in general for one reason or another.

PermabannedGarenSep 17, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Because he's still annoying as hell to play against in laning phase, especially for melees?

But then a jungler comes, Darius gets CC'd and hit with damage, and is either forced to back or just dies, because good players would back out of his range before he could simply Q them both to heal back up. And come teamfights, he gets CC'd and shredded from range before he does anything. High pick/ban has little to do with actual strength. Pick/ban is only relevant to perception of strength or otherwise just popularity in general for one reason or another.

He also has a consistently good win rate and is still a fairly common pick in even very high elo. He's Dyrus' second most picked champion on his main.

Dyrus is by no means overpowered, but you're living in a fantasy world if you think he's bad outside of low elo.

Mira Arya EntheSep 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triple K Maf1a,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bjce9Zok,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-17T19:43:05.966+0000)

All melee, all considered strong picks.

Elise is hardly a 'melee champion' she is a burst, mobile champion, with CC, ranged spell casting. By 'melee' people mean people who use basic attacks and/or melee ranged abilities for the most part. Amumu is a tank, not a true melee. Irelia is currently weak in higher levels, despite being a mobile burst champion. Darius is weak in high levels, period. Yorick lol... GP has poke, barrels and such, again not a melee dps champion. Hecarim is played as a tank for his abilities, not as a melee dps champion.

paperbIadeSep 17, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triple K Maf1a,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bjce9Zok,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-17T19:43:05.966+0000)

All melee, all considered strong picks.

Darius gets kited

Wolfram OxfordSep 17, 20161 votes

It's a skill thing, they have the tools to destroy ranger carries while supports have the skill to peel at most one or two melees for a duration suitable enough for their carry to receive more help.

PermabannedGarenSep 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bjce9Zok,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-17T19:38:46.969+0000)

To be precise, this is excluding assassins and the other hypermobile fighters like Yasuo and Ekko. It seems like champions who's job it is to get in melee range, and stay in melee range. Just suffer a lot this season. Some examples being...

To me, it has just felt like it is disadvantageous to pick these champions anymore. Because there is somebody that is more mobile or ranged or bursty(or all three) who can just do their job much much better. Auto Attack melees have especially suffered the most in my eyes. This may be a 'Silver' thing, perhaps at higher ELO it isn't a problem. But with their low play rates plat+ on Champion.gg I think it is at all ranks that most of these champions are doing bad in terms of reliably performing well comparitive to other options.

The devourer junglers were left in the dumpster with its removal, Tryndamere's kit offers nothing to a team besides his damage, Volibear is still a good jungler, Trundle is fine and was played in the LCS not too long ago, Renekton is also fine, Pantheon is still allowed to be good for some fucking reason, Olaf is still played in high elo, Nasus seems to be not allowed to be strong, Garen will never be in a good place with his current kit, and Jax is good right now.