Should grant a small shield vs that type of damage. Especially in the damage/oneshot/snowball meta that the game has become.
I've been advocating things like this for the last year that if they won't tone down damage, then we should have more options akin to 
that allow a fast response to fast damage to balance out the game. Fundamentally, you wouldn't have the tank meta, tanks just might be able to do their jobs before the inevitably perish.
Mavëríck9 votesI like the idea behind this. You're trying to make resistances worth a shit after a point, but the math has been done that 
or 
should be all you need to carve up a stacked tank.
Yets42408 votesThen add 
, 
and their hp no longer matters too!
Oh! And don't forget damage items are roughly 50% MORE EFFICIENT BY THEMSELVES BEFORE FACTORING IN ANY PEN WHAT SO EVER, OR % HP DAMAGE OR THE FACT THAT DAMAGE STATS ARE ALL MULTIPLICATIVELY (AND THUS EXPONENTIALLY) MORE EFFECTIVE THE MORE OF OTHER OFFENSIVE STATS YOU HAVE (and yes this does also include CDR) WHERE AS DEFENSE IS ALL LINEAR RETURNS TO SCALE FOR ALL OF IT, BUT WITH LITERALLY ANY %HP DAMAGE AND ANY PEN TO SPEAK OF, ITS ACTUALLY LESS THAN LINEAR.
Ragnaveil3 votesNah, you forgot that if you have % max health true damage, nothing matters to you, and you just stat people to death (Looking at you Vayne and Fiora).
Ornn3 votesmainly vayne she 14% you every 3 autos which can be done in less than 0.5 seconds. while other champs have a 3+ stack passive it has a cooldown unlike vayns
toby mcteague1 votesMean while Vayne is the only champion in the game with no AOE anything, and shes the only ADC that cannot damage anything without being within 550 range.
Most of her damage is physical anyways.
Ornn1 votes550 range is quite alot
TreehouseAt21191 votes550 is average. But he did say that she has to be within 550 range to do dmg. And shes 100% single target dmg, and has no AOE abilities whatsoever.
Sivir:500 range. Yet in teamfights her ricochet can crit the backline.
Lucian : 500 range, But his Q, and R far outrange 550.
Ornn1 votesshe doesn't need aoe shes broken already she can win full build against any adc in the game just off her W alone with no q or r needed vayne is braindead and very very broken
TreehouseAt21191 votesshe doesn't need aoe shes broken already she can win full build against any adc in the game just off her W alone with no q or r needed vayne is braindead and very very broken
Oh really? Just her W alone?
That means she needs to auto attack them at 14 times with guisoos to kill a squishy?
Vayne isnt broken, youre just a really bad player.
Ornn1 votes[deleted]
TreehouseAt21191 votesvayne is extremely broken and you're delusional have a a nice day
Only a delusional person doesnt provide counter arguments.
If youre mad cuz ur bad, then git gud. 😂😂😂
Ornn1 votes[deleted]
TreehouseAt21191 votesyou don't need a counter argument for simpfactssts and you're extremely immature
Real question is, why is a Silver smurf player crying about Vayne? Why are you smurfing when you are SILVER? Must be bad at the game.
TreehouseAt21191 voteswhat basis do you have to assume my rank?
The fact that you didnt even try to defend you rank.
You lose against low golds and silvers in normals. In 3 of your recent 20 normal games, you even lost against bronze players.
Again. Who is going to listen to a person who cant even play the game at the absolute minimum level?
Pierce The Veal2 votesIt’s not actually like void staff or lord dominicks are outright not making tanks tanky. The issue is that even without those pen items, damage builds already deal such absurd damage that armor and mr don’t help much; not to mention tanks having to divide their gold between armor and mr, making defense even worse.
And that’s before even mentioning % health damage items and skills.
Tanks NEED old OLD thornmail more than ever.
Tanks NEED the old health regen riot did away with.
The best synergy to health armor and mr is regen. The health regen items of old helped make tanks able to survive longer during fights, insignificant as they may have appeared.
And there needs to be an incentive beyond just a shield like OP said. The diminishing returns of resists need to not be as much.
Heck, maybe there should be a tank equivalent of rab cap or infinity edge. My proposition is an item that adds a percentage of your MR to your armor and a percentage of your armor to your MR.
Something like:
Immortal’s armor: 80 armor, 80 MR, 20% of armor and mr respectively are added to your MR and armor respectively.
Heck, maybe add a health scaling onto that. Something like 10% + (0.5% per 100 bonus hp).
And then reintroduce something similar to old force of nature and old warmogs. Something that furthermore adds HEALTH REGEN, unaffected by executioners calling as it is not HEALING.
Maybe even something with significant side effects in exchange for absurd tanking power:
Vajra cloak: +40 base armor +40 base magic resist + 5% movespeed + 100% health regen Unique passive: rejection of the material world: gain health per 5 equivalent to your bonus armor and magic resist, losing the capability to lifesteal or omnivamp or be healed by allies.
I have a recommendation for an adjustment to warmogs: lose the healing a few second after entering combat, something like “regen x% of health while out of combat, losing the regen 5 seconds after entering combat.”
Paroe8 votesThis sounds like a pretty good keystone, honestly. Replace aftershock with it? Lets call it Runic Bulwark. And lets make it trigger after 120Armor and 120 MR; for every 1 armor+MR after the threshhold you gain a 5 damage shield that slowly refreshes based on your health regeneration when out of combat.
So if you get 200 armor and 200 MR, youd have a 400 damage shield. But if you specialized into armor and got say... 120MR and 300 armor, youd have a 0 shield.
Linna Excel2 votesMight also work as a passive or active on a hybrid defense item.
+
+
Paroe3 votes[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bfLnNRjH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-06T00:03:18.759+0000)
Might also work as a passive or active on a hybrid defense item.
Tanks need all the HP they can get unfortunately, a new item that doesnt have HP but is defensive would need REALLY good stats. like 100+100 - which goes against riots current design philosophy.
Z3SIeeper1 votesHe means an effect that would effectively grant you bonus health for all the armor/mr you build.
So basically Stoneplate Active but scaling off resistances rather than health.
Paroe3 votesHe means an effect that would effectively grant you bonus health for all the armor/mr you build.
So basically Stoneplate Active but scaling off resistances rather than health.
OP specifically suggests resistances after a point giving you a type specific shield that scales with the amount of relevent resistances for that type. The idea itself - tanks being rewarded for building resistances - is not a bad idea. But rewarding specialization isnt smart because it promotes specialization and pigeonholding; Malphite and Rammus for example are already really good against AD comps. Making them EVEN BETTER against AD comps isnt quite healthy for the game though.
Which is why i suggested what i suggested; Rewarding hybridization of resistances to promote healthy tanks.
Z3SIeeper2 votesYknow what he suggested and what you suggested are essentially the same thing right? Only one is health and the other is a shield.
I was just pointing that out is all.
Paroe1 votesYknow what he suggested and what you suggested are essentially the same thing right? Only one is health and the other is a shield.
I was just pointing that out is all.
... Mine gives flat values for flat values, promoting hybridiztion and healthy tanks rather than the OPs which promotes specialization and isnt heathy. For every 1armor and MR after 120, gain 5 shield. The AND is not an average - its a condition.
Z3SIeeper2 votesHe stated no values and instead implied that it would gain the values or similar values to what you had listed.
Given you did not list any base stats, gold or build path for the item that means that the build path suggestion is perfectly in line with what you suggested at the time.
The only differentials here are his suggestion for health rather than a shield and it being an item rather than a rune.
For reference, his comment contains only this information:
[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bfLnNRjH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-06T00:03:18.759+0000)
Might also work as a passive or active on a hybrid defense item.
It does not contain any values other than the stats given by those items and the gold costs associated.
I also don't know why I care. Just bugged me I think.
Paroe1 votesHe stated no values and instead implied that it would gain the values or similar values to what you had listed.
Given you did not list any base stats, gold or build path for the item that means that the build path suggestion is perfectly in line with what you suggested at the time.
That'd be because i suggested a keystone ^^' This sounds like a pretty good keystone, honestly. Replace aftershock with it? Lets call it Runic Bulwark.
Ragnaveil1 votesCool, I like that. Gives Riot a motive to fix health regen as a stat for melees who have been boned (Why Aatrox has abysmal health regen paired with already trash healing is beyond me)
Bastilean6 votes
Play Malphite and laugh at your enemies physical damage*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*
FSRER5 votes
And surprise, they have a Yi who deals more true damage than physical damage
Kazekiba3 votesAt no point does 50 damage become more than half of Yi's total AD, and only 35% of his bonus AD is converted into TD. About 1/4 of his damage is true damage if youre generous.
RIP Tahm Kench5 votesDouble strike does less physical damage {50% i think?) but still deals full on hit damage. Phantom hit deals almost no physical damage, but full on hit damage.
Against tanks, the point where they start taking more true damage than physical damage might be around 100 armor (50% physical reduction).
Ragnaveil2 votesDont forget Red Smite.
Ornn2 votesregardless with only 2 attack speed items he rips through a 400 armor 5k health tank while tower driving and surviving with almost full hp
RyzeRework1 votesMalphite slows his attack speed greatly. Honestly malphite counters yi pretty hard. I havent had a problem with that matchup
toby mcteague2 votesMalphite’s E does not slow master yi’s attack speed. Yi is immune to all slows and cripples during ult.
Ornn2 votesattack speed slow doesn't count towards a slow so items like oem and frozen heart sill apply i wish they were buffed tho like 40-50% for the whole duration of them attacking you
toby mcteague2 votesNo they dont. Master Yi is immune to all cripples (attack speed slows) and slows during his ult.....
Seriously, read his abilities.
RyzeRework1 votesYeah so what about the other half of the time he doesnt have his ult up? Plus if yi ults and alphas you just ult him back
toby mcteague1 votesYi literally sucks without ult. Why would he be fighting you?
nm10101 votesYi is immune to ALL slows during his ult. This DOES include attack speed slows.
Highlander's slow immunity extends to all slows including abilities with multiple effects (e.g fear, charm) and attack speed slows. The abilities themselves won't be negated, but the slows will.
toby mcteague1 votesWait, you have 400 armor how? 5k hp how? You still have towers at that point?
Youre clearly exagerrating.
Divine Voidling3 votesMajority of tanks are above 50% win-rate. Biggest problem of tanks that are below 50% is not the items, but out-dated-for-current-meta-design + a bit of balance... Buffing them is hard, riddled with extra issues it will create and meta shift - so even more work... Re-works? A lot of work and not much profit for Riot...
We may only pray for Riot to make massive move to stop adding things and just stop for balancing and getting up-to-date old content...
xelaker2 votesOr they could stop overloading bursty champs, items, and keystones. Or not be utter shit at balance but...
Saezio2 votesFor starters. PERCENT PENE SHOULD APPLY AFTER FLAT. What kind of genius decided else i don't even know. And also, it should be % bonus resistances shred. Not total.Riot has introduced more and more ways to shred resistances and no new ways to be a tank. Remember when the only flat pene items were brutalizer haunting guise and sorc boots? I am not saying to go to that extreme, but do something to make resistances worth it. Maybe remove some of the diminishing returns on them?
Apollogy1 votesI agree that flat pen should come out first, but they've had %bonus pen before, but changed it to %total pen, while also significantly lowering the actual percentage penetrated. I think the AD item used to be 40 or 45% bonus pen, and now it's 25% total pen?
It's probably better that it's %bonus pen, so that they're not getting extra damage against targets who don't build armor... I think void staff has always had %total pen, or at least for as long as I've paid any attention.
As it stands now, assassins can use the %total pen in combination with their scaling flat armor pen (lethality). Maybe it's a good thing for them, but, honestly, I don't think they should have an option that gives them kill pressure against tanks AND squishies at the same time. Their job is to kill squishies, an ADC's job is to kill tanks. Why there's an item that allows both classes to do both things is beyond me...
Still, 45% bonus penetration does negate about half of the gold you spent on armor, and with the change to tank items now offering more armor and less HP for the same gold, going back to bonus penetration wouldn't necessarily be the only adjustment needed for tanks to feel like tanks again. Having to build 2-3 items before you're remotely able to soak up magic AND physical damage is rough as it is... since tanks scale with CDR and fall off when ADCs are shredding them with armor pen and crit. Oh yeah, and don't forget the enormous amount of true damage and resistance penetration being added to champion kits lately. Thank god conq no longer has any true damage.
That's another thing, too, if tanks want to get a lot of CDR, they've gotta build MR items or armor items with minimal HP. This is very very dangerous into comps with multiple sources of true damage. (Most true damage seems to come from AD champs). Righteous glory is the only somewhat decent tank item in these situations, but it's not very good on off-tanks. Other armor items that offer a sizable amount of HP don't have any CDR.
So, frozen heart into AD champs with true damage and armor pen, like old conq yasuo, black cleaver top laners, fiora, vayne, yi... the list goes on. It just isn't effective. Also, %hp true damage and especially %max hp true damage are some of the most busted pieces of any champion's kit... The only defensive counter would be shields and healing, since they don't amp up %hp damage, and protect somewhat against true damage... But an item like Sterak's gives a shield scaling off of HP, so it's a give and take that you inevitably lose.
To be fair, champs with those damage types are tank busters, but why then are they so effective against off-tanks who are sometimes designed specifically to counter those champs? Like divers into Vayne. I'd rather them have armor pen instead of true damage, so they're more effective against tanks that itemize against them and shred them late game like they should, while also not being very effective against champs that stack HP/AD items. Although, possibly negating the need for an armor pen item could be catastrophic... So who knows...
man no hot1 votesThis is not even a discussion. Tanks WAAAAY too much damage, literally do not die, ever, the items for bruiser such as fiora are SOOO expensive for what they give. I literally go 1v1 by a maokai playing fiora, lvl 14. I had a tiamat, last wshisper, and lvl 2 boots. He had a sunfire cape and lvl 1 boots. Hit all my vitals, ultimate, everything. It wasn't even remotly close, I swear. Just cut the damage on tanks by half or somthing, and just please, buff the bruiser items.
Ragnaveil2 votesIf you are losing to a Maokai as Fiora, then you are either lying or just plain bad. Fiora dumps on tanks like no tomorrow.
Ornn1 votesall tanks in the game need a flat 25% boost to their max resistance and health through 1-18, 4 new tank items 2 armor and, 2 mr and all previous tank items need their stats buffed and or reworked
BlackXIV1 votesThe old tank meta resulted out of tanks being able to deal decent damage without building any.
In my opinion tanks should have less base damage in their kits but tanky items should be a lot more efficient so that they can actually tank (really hard these days with all the damage creep) and build SOME damage as a tradeoff if they can afford it due to a lead.
Falcon 871 votesWhy? Pretty much all tanks are doing well, Ornn, Malphite, Mundo, Shen, Chogath, Maokai, Sion all got above average winrate.
