In the damage meta...

Düff McWhalen·Jan 17, 2019·54 votes·16,100 views

What are the counters to it OTHER THAN;

-Having More damage -Being able to deal it faster than your opponent

I've played champs with innate shields, built sterak's, build locket of iron, stacked armor up to the cap with 4k hp. Nothing works. You still get bursted down as a tank when you should not be so easily dealt with. You should be able to hold a team at bay while they try to get by you to reach your squishies, not be bursted down and run through despite having all or some of the build above...

56 Comments

Neko SirenJan 17, 201928 votes

Agreed. It's incredibly frustrating that I can't play a disruption champion and not even utilize my full kit because I'm deleted despite building to not die so quickly.

SuffocateMeDaddyJan 18, 20191 votes

You know what feels incredibly frustrating? Not being able to play at fucking all. Fuck you and fuck all of tank mains diruption champion mains, fuck lulu, fuck janna, fuck soraka. Play champions that dont make you feel like shit when you play against then and then maybe people will start considering your opinion. Because riot knows what makes people quit the game. And its not getting oneshot im telling you that.

Shen MDJan 18, 20195 votes

I am sure, people getting oneshot is worse.

SuffocateMeDaddyJan 18, 20191 votes

At least you get to oneshot someone else too if you play it well. Playing vs tanks doesnt feel like playing at all. Its a choir.

Shen MDJan 18, 20192 votes

You say something important:

if you play it well

That would be fair. Regardless, You can see zeds (as an example), to fail everything, but since he ulted, ignited and aa'd the enemy, it didn't matter, and he gets a kill

SuffocateMeDaddyJan 18, 20192 votes

Yeah right, you are talking like absolute dog shit zed can do that. Difference between dog shit zed that goes 0 12 and dog shit tank that goes 0 49, tank will be more usefull anyway.

AnidanJan 19, 20191 votes

On the other hand, 3 seconds of CC and possibly living anyway due to team intervention, or 40 seconds of grey screen after instant death nobody could save you from.

I don't know, I can see both sides. Tanks and their CC are a necessary evil, though, to mitigate some of the insane damage people can put out. If anything, my biggest complaint in League is that there isn't much of an answer to CC at all. There's no BKB or Magic Immunity like DotA has, there's no Cleanse outside of a couple specific items and a summoner spell like HotS has for a lot of support talents (and due to bizarre balance decisions, they're not even items/summoner spell everyone can pick up without throwing an enemy an advantage).

This game has abundant CC and almost no real answer to it besides not to get caught in the first place but it also has an absolutely enormous damage inflation problem.

SuffocateMeDaddyJan 19, 20191 votes

I am not talking about CC at all. I am talking about the thing that made top lane LEAST QUED ROLE IN THE FUCKING GAME. Remember that time when you were more likely to get top lane than support when you qued as autofill? Yeah I am talking about that pre conqueror tank top meta. Do you know why people quit top? BECAUSE YOU DIDNT FUCKING MATTER. Why you didnt matter? Because tank doesnt let you play the game. Want to snowball during snowball meta? No fuck you. Want to splitpush? They will outduel you. Want to teamfight? they are better at that as well. TANK METAS MAKE PEOPLE QUIT!

flibitydooJan 18, 20191 votes

must be fun waiting out grey screens then just for walking under your own team's turret.

SuffocateMeDaddyJan 18, 20191 votes

must be fun waiting 35 minutes after game started to play the game.

Player342Jan 17, 201911 votes

OneMustFallJan 18, 201911 votes

Completely disagree. Tank builds work incredibly well. 9 times out of 10 the team with more tanks wins the game. It's just no one wants to go tank. Everyone wants to build full damage and then whine when they get blown up by someone else going full damage.

TyrancyJan 18, 201917 votes

Found the norms player. Nobody wants to play tank builds because it doesnt fucking work, Im a mid player and literally every game ive never been stopped by a tank, doesnt matter what champ I play, I simply just throw my combo at a tank and 60% of his/her hp is gone instantly, if its a teamfight, well now they are just dead.

OneMustFallJan 18, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Found the norms player. Nobody wants to play tank builds because it doesnt fucking work, Im a mid player and literally every game ive never been stopped by a tank, doesnt matter what champ I play, I simply just throw my combo at a tank and 60% of his/her hp is gone instantly, if its a teamfight, well now they are just dead.

What a load of hyperbolic BS. Your Norms Vs Ranked narrative is also childish and false.

ExxonVJan 18, 20198 votes

But why do you think anyone wants to hear what you have to say about what builds work incredibly well from an AD thresh main?

OneMustFallJan 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

But why do you think anyone wants to hear what you have to say about what builds work incredibly well from an AD thresh main?

While I'm flattered you took the time to look me up, I don't think you know what AD Thresh is.

ExxonVJan 18, 20196 votes

Totally, you're just too good for me.

TobykachuJan 18, 20197 votes

Judging from your match history, you're almost entirely an assassin main. Who are the only damage oriented class in the games that tanks can effectively do their job against.

xDelightifyxJan 18, 20196 votes

and not even that job tanks are doing particularly well....

TwitchInMyPantsJan 18, 20193 votes

I think the fact that we have people who main a class that is supposed to be somewhat countered by tanks pointing out how easy it is to take on tanks is pretty damning

Like seriously, Gameplay assassin mains never shut up about how annoying tanks were until they were relegated to cc bots who have no survivability due to the absurd damage. This is pretty unprecedented, even in the last assassin meta I can think of in S3 tanks were getting complained about.

CppLJan 18, 20199 votes

No.Nobody wants to play tanks cause defenses are fucking useless.First you gonna buttfucked in the laning phase by conqueror users.Even if you surive laning phase ,it"s still doesnt matter.Cause after 20 min mark dmg outscales defenses so hard ,its not even funny.

HammermancerJan 18, 20195 votes

Dark mane was a prophet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK14ZBat-fU

"If you just build more damage then they can't kill you because they can't deal damage when they're dead"

FSRERJan 18, 20194 votes

Playing rammus top, having 110+aftershock armor at 9 mins and still getting beat by a conqueror riven....

TwitchInMyPantsJan 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Playing rammus top, having 110+aftershock armor at 9 mins and still getting beat by a conqueror riven....

Honestly Aftershock is an extremely overtuned rune that gives way too much resists

But nerfing it would be horrid for tanks since all of the other Resolve runes barely give durability, resists from items have been constantly nerfed, and Riot gives out true damage like candy on halloween. They've painted themselves into a situation that's impossible to balance entirely. When Fiddlesticks and Pyke are most comfortable to play with Aftershock there's clearly some issue with the rune. But you can't even touch that thing without at least buffing resolve or looking at nonsense like Conquerer, Duskblade, and Infinity Edge.

IG ZikoJan 18, 20193 votes

There are 2 poblems:

1- Tanks actually do a lot of damage. You can deal 70% of squishy HP with 1 Malphite, Ornn, Maokai,... combo. Wait for cooldowns and finish them off.

2- Duo to the reason above, when tanks are string, it becomes a strat for people to stack tanks to gain free ELO. Now yiu need a huge DPS, which makes your ADC the only hope to win the game. Then you need to keep that dump ADC alive, BOOM, Ardent cancer meta...

DanyojaJan 18, 20192 votes

Issue here is:

It isn't going to be a 1v1 and any good team is going to CC you and poke you down.
There are lot of damage mitigation on damage items carries can use to mitigate burst, which is the main way tanks deal damage
Tanks tend to have long cool down so even if you happen to get through the team and get a full clean burst combo and take out 15% of their heal odds are a carry will have the damage, sustain, mobility, or any combination of that too finish off a tank in the late game.

You are correct tanks damage is really bursty in the early levels making it hard balance them, by making damage high you effectively shut them down for the rest of the game since you can poke them down in bot lane so they can't engage or starve them from CS top late because they have to respect range poke at the early levels when it easy to die. I believe going tanky should be a good option to help you survive enough to be safe under tower and CS to catch up, but it isn't anyone at half health is going to be an easy dive for a laner and jungle combo.

I'd like it if they just reduce damage and let the game be a bit slower and readjust from there.

TwitchInMyPantsJan 18, 20195 votes

Just saying, Tanks have always had good base damage. But 70% burst combos literally never existed until recently, they've always done something like 20-40% of a squishies hp and relied on low CDs to chase and % damage to fight bruisers/tanks. Have you looked at recent patch notes? Durability nerfed, damage buffed. Durability nerfed, damage buffed. I wonder why tanks are suddenly burst champions now? HMMMMMMMMMM........

ΗuaweiJan 18, 20193 votes

I thought the post was gonna be like this.

In the damage meta...

The meta damages you.

coreychichiJan 18, 20192 votes

Well when shields were keeping people alive everyone bitched that their burst was useless so....

ChaddyFantomeJan 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Well when shields were keeping people alive everyone bitched that their burst was useless so....

"Oh no! The one thing stopping us from delving into pure burst meta is stopping us from devolving into pure burst meta!"

Basically what the complaints amounted to.

Spacesuit SpiffJan 18, 20192 votes

The only real escalation at this point is bursting multiple people and doing it from further away. Too bad riot is doubling down on this.

Eat my spearsJan 19, 20192 votes

If the meta is damage, why can’t nidalee one shot anyone? I believe nidalee is overdue a buff or rework. She doesn’t have any utility at all in SR. Please Riot do something for us few nidalee mains still out there.

Vlada CutJan 18, 20191 votes

Tbh only item 3053 item 3812 seem like the only viable damage counters dor adc chamos that I play. Heck I even use item 3065 's sustain for dueking. XDDDD

Kumiho AhriJan 18, 20191 votes

What are the counters to it OTHER THAN;

-Having More damage -Being able to deal it faster than your opponent

-Stealth -Invulnerability -Dashes -Blocking (example: Sivir Braum shields) -Anti-CC

Champs that have enough of those would be good in this meta too

ChaddyFantomeJan 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kumiho Ahri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jy5qQ7tT,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-01-18T13:07:33.834+0000)

-Stealth -Invulnerability -Dashes -Blocking (example: shields) -Anti-CC

Champs that have enough of those would be good in this meta too

Stealth won't save you from damage. it will just make u glow pretty transparent color sb4 u die.
Dashes won't save you either. There is so much ambient damage that u can't get away unscathed. Also, everyone else has those as well nowadays anyway.
Anti-CC wont save u from damage by definition...
Blocking 300 damage doesn't matter when your HP bar is 2k and everyone does 5K with a single spell or 2 autos. Doesn't help that they were nerfed across the board.

Kumiho AhriJan 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Stealth won't save you from damage. it will just make u glow pretty transparent color sb4 u die.

Dashes won't save you either. There is so much ambient damage that u can't get away unscathed. Also, everyone else has those as well nowadays anyway.

Sure they can save you. (If the enemies arent too fed)

Anti-CC wont save u from damage by definition...

Since the dmg output went up it became very importent to have good positioning in team fights. Any small mistake can lead to death regadless of role. Therefore everything that impairs movement is extremly deadly.

Blocking 300 damage doesn't matter when your HP bar is 2k and everyone does 5K with a single spell or 2 autos. Doesn't help that they were nerfed across the board.

If you block the 300 damage attack instead of the 5K damage spell it is your fault xD

ChaddyFantomeJan 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kumiho Ahri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jy5qQ7tT,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-01-18T21:45:54.051+0000)

Sure they can save you. (If the enemies arent too fed)

Since the dmg output went up it became very importent to have good positioning in team fights. Any small mistake can lead to death regadless of role. Therefore everything that impairs movement is extremly deadly.

If you block the 300 damage attack instead of the 5K damage spell it is your fault xD

Nothing you said makes any sense.

Enemies are all effectively "fed" by 10 minutes since damage creep is so high. Whether or not CC makes u more dead doesn't change the fact that ambient damage is so high that ull probably die whether u get CC'd or not. A Shield can only block so much damage. A 500HP shield can only block 500 damage.

Kumiho AhriJan 19, 20191 votes

Now you are trolling me.

y0r1ckJan 19, 20191 votes

Let's just throw the rest of the champions in the trash then.

Kumiho AhriJan 19, 20191 votes

Nah, they all will get reworked. [sg-miss-fortune]

MarshbouyJan 18, 20191 votes

OP probably went in 1v5 and got mad when he died quickly.

hewhodoesnotcareJan 18, 20191 votes

i saw a nautlius tank 20 tower shots killed the adc and his mother and then proceed to destroy his entire family as everyone else just ignore the nautlius and kept pushing lane to win.

Celestial Lion12Jan 18, 20191 votes

have you tried Taric

ShakeNBakeUKJan 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jy5qQ7tT,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-17T20:10:44.964+0000)

What are the counters to it OTHER THAN;

-Having More damage -Being able to deal it faster than your opponent

I've played champs with innate shields, built sterak's, build locket of iron, stacked armor up to the cap with 4k hp. Nothing works. You still get bursted down as a tank when you should not be so easily dealt with. You should be able to hold a team at bay while they try to get by you to reach your squishies, not be bursted down and run through despite having all or some of the build above...

dbl warrior is meta in heroes of the storm right now i find playing another game to be a pretty hard counter to League's meta ;D

CukumbaJan 18, 20191 votes

That is the whole issue indeed Even a tank cant survive, now imagine a marskmen......

ChaddyFantomeJan 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That is the whole issue indeed Even a tank cant survive, now imagine a marksman......

At least marksman don't have to be in melee range, Imagine an assassin that doesn't have an instant Invincibility button or warp-back mechanic.

The Bearded BardJan 18, 20191 votes

The counter is playing safe, warding out, and being better than your opponent.

ROYALR3IGNJan 18, 20191 votes

Theres a few champs that could function really well with damage reduction being a thing. Tank WW with aftershock, Gragas also has DR knights vow, phantom dancer, on top of all the other stuff you mentioned

rayzoJan 19, 20191 votes

item 3157 item 3026

SyrileJan 19, 20191 votes

The funniest part of this is that they are adding "defensive options" for ADCs, as if that is what ADCs wanted to begin with. This further removes skill and teamwork from the game and puts it more towards the idea of a solo style game. But worse yet, 280 Health shield... -_- I mean, yeah, compared to the 2-3k damage that the enemy is putting out, that seems helpful. :D