Mordekaiser 5.4

Talamare·Feb 14, 2015·4 votes·1,276 views

I was pretty worried when Riot announced these champions, nerfing one of my favorite champions in the league. Especially when he was in such a barely playable state.

I would definitely now like to welcome the Tankiest Tank, Most Unkillable Manliest of Men to the League of Legends!

Mordekaiser will now gain 4% of his maximum health shield on each target he hits with his abilities That's right, When you are sitting at 4k HP and blast 6 minions with his E. Boom! 1k HP Shield Each second your W hits 3 multiple targets in a team fight, its 400 hp more shield every second!

Yes, yes Mordekaiser still doesn't have CC... So when you think about it -> What's the point of focusing a Tank with no CC? Well... 1 - His damage is actually not bad 2 - His ghost amplifies his damage 3 - Aura from Items

So please thank you Riot, with these changes Mordekaiser will definitely become a mainstream powerhouse!

16 Comments

JedenVojakFeb 14, 20154 votes

In the first place, damage mordekaiser generates considereably more shields than health mordekaiser the more damage he can do to his target, and minions, having no resistances to speak of whatsoever, are his single best targets for filling his shield bar. If you want to see it, you can check my thread here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/PFOUKsPA-mordekaiser-live-damage-based-shield-generation-vs-the-new-max-hp-based-pbe-shield-gen

Second his new damage is terrible, given the fact that all of his scalings were reduced, and he now must build health/tank items instead of actual damage.

All and all, this is a really bad direction for Mordekaiser.

SwordGruntFeb 14, 20153 votes

There's no such thing as 1k hp shield sadly, his shield still has the same limit as before

TalamareFeb 14, 20151 votes

Your math proves I'm right...

Answer me this Will you ever really attack someone with 4k hp who is healing for 1k every like 2 seconds?

This is an insanely good direction for Mordekaiser He is creating the ultimate worst scenario for opponents

Option 1 - Ignore Mordekaiser complete... Mordekaiser kills your squishies Option 2 - Focus Mordekaiser, Well he was insanely hard to kill and you just wasted a lot of resources on a guy with mediocre damage and no CC Option 3 - Disengage for life

They did what they said they would, reduced burst increased DPS Mace of Spades with 500 AP went from doing 400 damage to 330, but with lower cooldown the DPS went from 100 to 110 With that same AP, the ratio reduction on Siphon reduces the damage by 50, or 8.3 DPS reduction. So overall it is still 1.7 DPS increase

THIS IS IGNORING THE FACT THAT 'W' CAN NOW BE CAST ON 2 PEOPLE!! Not only does that increase his DPS by like another 100, but it also vastly increases his team utility!

This new Mordekaiser is insane, and I will definitely begin playing Tankaiser

EzraTwitchFeb 14, 20152 votes

Please stop, I ran the math, the full math, level by level.

With the Following Build Rylighs, Sunfire, Liandrys, Absyal, Sorcs, WoTa.

Mordekaiser does less damage AND produces less shield overall.

He doesn't just do less damage, he's squishier as well. Its a straight across the board nerf to his durability as well as his Damage. At a glance it looks fine, but the second you actually plug the numbers in the fantasy falls apart.

ExiledTyrantFeb 14, 20152 votes

Your math is terribly wrong though. You did not record the proper value for his Q shield % return which is 8% isolated not 4%. You didn't double the shielding and damage on his double creeping death now that is can be applied to him and his target. You didn't use the right minion forumla as morde gets 50% shield gen from minions vs the 70% shield gen he receives within the new forumla (you used 30% minion calculations instead of 70%). You didn't account for resistances at all. You certainly didn't take into account his shield no longer decaying at all times by 3% a second.

The only other observation that even came close to putting the new shielding at a deficit requires morde to be in the 600 AP ranges and his opponent needs very low mr. The deficit is only around a 10-30 gap even then.

You keep praising bad numbers

EzraTwitchFeb 14, 20151 votes

The only thing I missed was the Extra 4% off Q which ONLY happens in Duels with no minions around, hardly substantial.

Secondly with the new formula it says he gets 30% of Shield Generation, not 30% less.

ExiledTyrantFeb 14, 20151 votes

Double the shield is not substantial? You had a 240 shield marked as 120 I would say that is a lot especially as the game goes on. His isolated Q goes off far more during objectives and clean up and is not something to just be written off. 2 creeping deaths when is a large factor in determining the skills overall power and shield gen. Not counting it doesn't draw a proper comparison. I also don't see how not including resistances make the comparison any better as old morde's shield is hampered by resistances and new morde's isn't.

After looking at the new iron man again is does look like it is down to 30%. The wording is odd to me with it saying " shield conversion is 30% as effective vs minions". I took that as only a 30% reduction vs the current 50%.

EzraTwitchFeb 15, 20151 votes

Double Shield for Q and only Q, and if you run the numbers its still negative (and honestly a moot point since it will seldom occur in lane and generally never in teamfights), just less negative then it was, as for the double W I did do the math for it. I did the math for a fully built Bruiser Mordakaiser Damaging 3 enemies with Double Creeping Death and Ulting a enemy with only 2000 Maximum Health and didn't even factor in the shield loss that occurs do to the fact your Ghost itself no longer produces shield.

It came out to a 144 more damage (Assuming Both Creeping Deaths where damaging 3 enemies), and Still Less Shield Generation.

If you factor in the 90-130 Shield Gain that no longer occurs when your Ghost attacks its even more horrendously bad.

ExiledTyrantFeb 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Double Shield for Q and only Q, and if you run the numbers its still negative (and honestly a moot point since it will seldom occur in lane and generally never in teamfights), just less negative then it was, as for the double W I did do the math for it. I did the math for a fully built Bruiser Mordakaiser Damaging 3 enemies with Double Creeping Death and Ulting a enemy with only 2000 Maximum Health and didn't even factor in the shield loss that occurs do to the fact your Ghost itself no longer produces shield.

It came out to a 144 more damage (Assuming Both Creeping Deaths where damaging 3 enemies), and Still Less Shield Generation.

If you factor in the 90-130 Shield Gain that no longer occurs when your Ghost attacks its even more horrendously bad.

Ok so let's just look at this section we are discussing here:

{quoted}

Clearly after eviscerating his early game these changes are meant to help his late game. Lets try the most popular Bruiser Mord Build. Sorcs Boots, Sunfire, Abyssal, Ryligh, Liandries, WoTa. Level 18. Total Health: 3101, Total Ability Power 320, Armor and Magic Resist with Creeping Death Active 181 Armor, 181 Magic resist. Seems like a respectable Bruiser Build, lets compare old and new scaling.

Old Mord E: 442 Damage, 154 Shield Generated per Champion Hit. New MordE: 410 Damage, 124 Shield Generated per Champion Hit.

Old Mord W: 144 Damage, 43 Shield Generated per Champion Hit. New Mord W: 128 Damage, 31 Shield Generated per Champion Hit. New Mord W (Assuming 2 Shields are Active and Striking same Enemy): 256 Damage, 62 Shield Generated. (Because Mord can now produce two shields, this has the potential to be buff given certain assumptions on position).

Old Mord Q: 328 Damage, 114 Shield per Champion hit, OR 541 Damage and 189 Shield versus a Single Champion. New MordQ: 296 Damage, 124 Shield per Champion, or 488 Damage and 124 Shield versus a Single Champion.

Old Mord R: 46% of Targets Max health as Magic Damage (Assuming 2000 - 3000 health enemy), Generates 322 - 483 Shield (NOT COUNTING SHIELD GAINED FROM GHOST ATTACKS). New Mord R: 46% of Targets Mas Health as Magic Damage (NO Initial Damage so NO initial Burst of Healing). Generates 310 Shield.

NET CHANGE in a Team Fight with 3 Champions assuming BOTH Mord and 1 Ally are hitting 3 enemies with his Creeping Death and Mord Ulted a 2000 Health Enemy (In other words I am making as many concessions towards the New Mords kit as possible). +144 Damage, -81 Shield. (In other words even with me giving Every possible Situational Advantage too new Mordakaiser he still ends up Shielding less while only doing slighly more damage.)

Old E is slightly ahead if you are dealing pure damage New E will under perform at very high AP and penetration levels compared to old Morde

Old W is behind when 2 creeping death are out and only slightly ahead when one is out if you are doing pure damage New W is ahead in every situation you are using it on an ally.

Old Q is slightly ahead if you are doing pure damage in AOE New isolated Q is ahead at it's actual 248 regardless of defense

Old R at 2000 health would award 161 shield from it's initial attack + whatever the ghost would pump out on attacks. That can be fairly variable depending on the ghost.

You would only get 16 shield a second afterwards for the next 10 seconds. Now you have to consider how many attacks this ghost has to get off within 10 seconds of 3% shield decay per second. Morde's shield decay is not 3% of current shield but 3% of his maximum shield amount so a at his final shield level he is losing 19 shield a second regardless of how much shield he generated.

So over 10 seconds you are back to 161 total shield and would surpass New Morde's R in about 7 ghost attacks.

At 3k health is would take 5 ghost hits to go slightly over new morde's R.

New R will only award 62 shield a second regardless of the opponents health or resist at 3101 total hp. 620 shield over 10 seconds.

Of course higher resist favors the new R and ghost type will never matter. As enemy health goes up, enemy resist goes down, R % goes up and if a proper ghost is collected Morde's Old R gets better.

If you want to add that New W + New ultimate Morde + an ally and hitting 3 enemies he's generating about 248 shield a second with 0 degen.

I think there are a lot more variables to be considered before this can just be written off. Even an opponent with 20% resistance would cause problems for old morde in this current scenario.

EzraTwitchFeb 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Ok so let's just look at this section we are discussing here:

Old E is slightly ahead if you are dealing pure damage New E will under perform at very high AP and penetration levels compared to old Morde

Old W is behind when 2 creeping death are out and only slightly ahead when one is out if you are doing pure damage New W is ahead in every situation you are using it on an ally.

Old Q is slightly ahead if you are doing pure damage in AOE New isolated Q is ahead at it's actual 248 regardless of defense

Old R at 2000 health would award 161 shield from it's initial attack + whatever the ghost would pump out on attacks. That can be fairly variable depending on the ghost.

You would only get 16 shield a second afterwards for the next 10 seconds. Now you have to consider how many attacks this ghost has to get off within 10 seconds of 3% shield decay per second. Morde's shield decay is not 3% of current shield but 3% of his maximum shield amount so a at his final shield level he is losing 19 shield a second regardless of how much shield he generated.

So over 10 seconds you are back to 161 total shield and would surpass New Morde's R in about 7 ghost attacks.

At 3k health is would take 5 ghost hits to go slightly over new morde's R.

New R will only award 62 shield a second regardless of the opponents health or resist at 3101 total hp. 620 shield over 10 seconds.

Of course higher resist favors the new R and ghost type will never matter. As enemy health goes up, enemy resist goes down, R % goes up and if a proper ghost is collected Morde's Old R gets better.

If you want to add that New W + New ultimate Morde + an ally and hitting 3 enemies he's generating about 248 shield a second with 0 degen.

I think there are a lot more variables to be considered before this can just be written off. Even an opponent with 20% resistance would cause problems for old morde in this current scenario.

Morde gains shield based on the damage he deals, NOT the damage they take after mitigation. I literally just tested this in a custom. Magic Resist ALREADY doesn't factor into his shield generation. Which means you are completely underestimating the Shield Generation of the current iteration of Morde.

ExiledTyrantFeb 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Morde gains shield based on the damage he deals, NOT the damage they take after mitigation. I literally just tested this in a custom. Magic Resist ALREADY doesn't factor into his shield generation. Which means you are completely underestimating the Shield Generation of the current iteration of Morde.

We must have different customs matches then because I just tested level 1 morde vs a level 1 leona bot in a custom. 70 damage E no modifiers or penetration gave me 18 shield where I should have gotten 24. she has 32 starting MR so that should have reduced it around 25% exactly the 6 shield I was missing. It looks like after mitigation to me.

JedenVojakFeb 14, 20151 votes

Answer me this Will you ever really attack someone with 4k hp who is healing for 1k every like 2 seconds?

No. I will ignore him, focus the people on his team who are actual threats because they do damage, kill them, then A) If I'm alone, just leave because Mordekaiser can't chase me and can't do anything to stop me B) If I'm with my team, focus kill him and proceed to the next objective.

Your math proves I'm right...

What my math shows is that, to match a full damage Mordekaiser for shield generation, you're going to have to build a LOT of health.

While you are building this health, you are overall building less and less damage. This means that the enemy has less and less reason to bother trying to fight you in the first place - you cannot peel, you cannot chase, and you do no damage.

This is an insanely good direction for Mordekaiser He is creating the ultimate worst scenario for opponents

Option 1 - Ignore Mordekaiser complete... Mordekaiser kills your squishies Option 2 - Focus Mordekaiser, Well he was insanely hard to kill and you just wasted a lot of resources on a guy with mediocre damage and no CC Option 3 - Disengage for life

Your scenario needs some editing because it's going to play out more like this: Option 0 - Ignore Mordekaiser because he's hard to kill, but since he has mediocre damage and no CC, he cannot kill your squishies nor catch them; proceed to wipe out all of Mordekaiser's teammates while he saunters along futilly because he only has tank items and does no damage. Finally swarm and kill mordekaiser because he does no damage and can't escape. Win the game.

How do I know this is how it will play out? Because when I try to build Mordekaiser as a bruiser, this is what happens to me, as he is, RIGHT NOW. He has the 3.5 d&d fighter problem: it doesn't matter how tanky you are, if you can't prevent your opponents from getting to your controllers and strikers, the monsters are going to ignore you and kill your teammates. The only way to get enemies to attack you, or contribute in a meaningful way is to build for TONS OF DAMAGE.

They did what they said they would, reduced burst increased DPS Mace of Spades with 500 AP went from doing 400 damage to 330, but with lower cooldown the DPS went from 100 to 110 With that same AP, the ratio reduction on Siphon reduces the damage by 50, or 8.3 DPS reduction. So overall it is still 1.7 DPS increase

Ok... let's talk about this for a second.

First, what you're failing to account for is that you're not going to have 500 AP because you now have to build health tank items. You're going to have maybe 200ish ap - which means, coupled with your lower base damage, and lower scalings, your DPS is not going up at all, its going down, MASSIVELY.

Second, Mace of Spades is probably his least useful ability - why? Because in order to apply it, he has to melee his opponent, but he has no way to close the gap, and no way to cc the enemy to force them to fight him. I honesly say I get much more use out of Siphon of Destruction, using it to poke the enemy team while we're waiting for engagement and generating massive shields, than I do from Mace of Spades.

THIS IS IGNORING THE FACT THAT 'W' CAN NOW BE CAST ON 2 PEOPLE!! Not only does that increase his DPS by like another 100, but it also vastly increases his team utility!

I'll admit this is an interesting change - It will make W more useful in lane certainly against pokers, as you can W a minion, and still have a shield on yourself. It doesn't change his team utility much though - because the scenario was, if I was in front I W'd myself to tank the damage, and if I was lagging behind I W'd the bruiser in front so he could tank more damage.

This new Mordekaiser is insane, and I will definitely begin playing Tankaiser

You are correct, this is an insane direction to take the new Mordekaiser. I can only hope they come to their senses.

LevitosFeb 14, 20151 votes

Just a note, Morde's new E doesn't say it does it per proc. It states "per unit affected", which may mean it doesn't do it per tic of damage, but as a unique proc per ability for each unit hit.

StaconaFeb 14, 20151 votes

First off the changes are a straight up nerf - but What Riot wants to try doing was not tank mordekaiser but bruiser mordekaiser so you get things like wota, rylais, liandrys, sorcs, abyssal, hourglass