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Most OP complaints are irrational

FDS Desperado··6 votes·620 views

Recently played through bronze and silver and something was made very apparent to me.

People at low elo (really below diamond or upper platinum) value the strength of champions wayyy too much. What I mean is that while certain champions are strong, (ahri, graves, Lee sin etc), they completely ignore the fact that at any elo below diamond, skill is more important than anything.

Exqmple, player A picks ahri, player B picks mahlzahar and player B proceeds to beat player A like they stole something. Player B makes better calls, itemizes accordingly and uses better positioning and player B wins the game.

This is because player B has been playing malzahar for a long time and is very familiar with how to play the champion in all situations. Player A took flavor of the month pick and got reamed for it.

The idea that only a few champions are playable is stupid. Jungle diversity sucks but there are more than 3 or 4 good picks in the jungle still. People that say otherwise are exaggerating and being babies.

In short: Get good at champions and objectives and stop crying for riot to make all champions have the same relative power, its never going to happen because they are fucked in the head. Adapt.

24 Comments

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a393 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bZBvx3jI,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-12T15:00:47.222+0000)

Recently played through bronze and silver and something was made very apparent to me.

People at low elo (really below diamond or upper platinum) value the strength of champions wayyy too much. What I mean is that while certain champions are strong, (ahri, graves, Lee sin etc), they completely ignore the fact that at any elo below diamond, skill is more important than anything.

Exqmple, player A picks ahri, player B picks mahlzahar and player B proceeds to beat player A like they stole something. Player B makes better calls, itemizes accordingly and uses better positioning and player B wins the game.

This is because player B has been playing malzahar for a long time and is very familiar with how to play the champion in all situations. Player A took flavor of the month pick and got reamed for it.

The idea that only a few champions are playable is stupid. Jungle diversity sucks but there are more than 3 or 4 good picks in the jungle still. People that say otherwise are exaggerating and being babies.

In short: Get good at champions and objectives and stop crying for riot to make all champions have the same relative power, its never going to happen because they are fucked in the head. Adapt.

This is actually a flawed logic. Sure, people should prioritize improving skills and knowledge, but it doesn't mean they don't have the right to comment on balancing. When a champion is OP enough to negate the opponent's superior skills, balancing is obligatory.

I see you point, but it doesn't sound right. Your point is similar to "This is life" consolation or "Stop whining, kid." conversation killer.

FDS Desperado1 votes

I guess I just don't see it as any different than it has ever been. There has always been a revolving door of "OP" and "UP" champions. But, as always, there is not a champ in the game that's OP enough for a bronze or silver or even gold to beat a diamond with based on the champion alone. There is more to the game than being able to 1v1 your laning opponent at all levels and that seems to be lost on some.

Balancing should always be an active project but it will never be perfect to the point where people aren't complaining.

I don't mean to take away their right to comment and complain, that's their right. I just want to clarify that is all it is, complaining. There is no weight behind someone complaining about a champion and saying they're broken and need nerfed. At least come up with some constructive ideas.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a393 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bZBvx3jI,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-02-12T15:15:50.665+0000)

I guess I just don't see it as any different than it has ever been. There has always been a revolving door of "OP" and "UP" champions. But, as always, there is not a champ in the game that's OP enough for a bronze or silver or even gold to beat a diamond with based on the champion alone. There is more to the game than being able to 1v1 your laning opponent at all levels and that seems to be lost on some.

Balancing should always be an active project but it will never be perfect to the point where people aren't complaining.

I don't mean to take away their right to comment and complain, that's their right. I just want to clarify that is all it is, complaining. There is no weight behind someone complaining about a champion and saying they're broken and need nerfed. At least come up with some constructive ideas.

Well, then the section of Boards "Gameplay & Balance" should be renamed as "Gameplay".

"At least come up with some constructive ideas." Hmm, that's interesting. I guess you see whining with constructive ideas as acceptable? Then we are on the same page.

FDS Desperado1 votes

I am all for complaints with a point and constructive meaning. But not just complaining for the sake of complaining.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bZBvx3jI,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-02-12T15:43:07.991+0000)

I am all for complaints with a point and constructive meaning. But not just complaining for the sake of complaining.

That's not the most cases we see. This kind of post often gets downvoted pretty quickly anyway. Just click downvote and move on.

disregardable1 votes

Your point is similar to "This is life" consolation or "Stop whining, kid." conversation killer.

It's also completely wrong. Bronze players don't believe that the strength of a champion is be all end all; they use that exact argument to counterpick themselves in lane.

"Yeah, I'm bringing Vayne into Jinx, it's not Diamond". >Gets zoned, out csed, and is useless mid game.

I refuse to believe that people counterpick themselves in Silver as much as they do in Bronze.

FDS Desperado1 votes

Bronze and silver are the exact same for the most part.

disregardable1 votes

Then why am I in Bronze 5 and not Silver 1?

FDS Desperado2 votes

"Most part" Those are polar opposites of the categories. If you were in bronze 3 and you got put into silver 4, you wouldn't know the difference if no one told you.

disregardable1 votes

Yet somehow during the resets, when I was placed against Silver players for ~15-20 games, I did notice. I noticed because I lost, and lost, and lost until I finally hit Bronze 5. I was in fact B3 last season, and I'm still losing.

FDS Desperado1 votes

I reiterate most part, maybe you aren't the most part.

Maybe you just need to work on your play.

Regardless of your reason for falling in ranked I am telling you that silvers make just as bad of decisions. The difference you notice as you go up towards silver and gold is just the frequency that they make those bad decisions, it goes down. They are more consistant.

disregardable1 votes

Actually, just forget it.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a392 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bZBvx3jI,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-12T15:17:05.551+0000)

Bronze and silver are the exact same for the most part.

Nice strawman to bring the conversation off track.

His point is neglecting strength of champion is an excuse for many unskilled player, thus bringing his main point, which is champion pick actually causes significant influence.

FDS Desperado1 votes

I never said champion pick does not bring significant influence. But jinx doesn't beat vayne in lane because jinx is OP in this scenario.

People counterpicking themselves is off track from my original point that skill level is more important than champions relative power.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a392 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bZBvx3jI,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-02-12T15:41:16.542+0000)

I never said champion pick does not bring significant influence. But jinx doesn't beat vayne in lane because jinx is OP in this scenario.

People counterpicking themselves is off track from my original point that skill level is more important than champions relative power.

That's weird. By your first point, you denied the impact of OP champions that could bring. Now you actually agree counter pick does exists. What if there is a champion more useful than 95% others? This is similar to counterpicking, just not as harsh. This is the point he was trying to say.

FDS Desperado1 votes

Counter picking does exist to a degree. Obviously skill overrides counters at some point. And if you want to view OP champions as counterpicks to all other but to a lesser extent than I would still state that skill overrides that the same as a normal counter.

I never made an argument that some champions aren't stronger and that counter picks don't exist. Just that people value these OP champions and counterpicks more than their skill level. Which is a bad way to look at it.

The main claim this whole time has been and will remain, skill is more important than champion selection.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a392 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bZBvx3jI,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-12T15:52:43.824+0000)

Counter picking does exist to a degree. Obviously skill overrides counters at some point. And if you want to view OP champions as counterpicks to all other but to a lesser extent than I would still state that skill overrides that the same as a normal counter.

I never made an argument that some champions aren't stronger and that counter picks don't exist. Just that people value these OP champions and counterpicks more than their skill level. Which is a bad way to look at it.

The main claim this whole time has been and will remain, skill is more important than champion selection.

You are only repeating what he said and what you said.

If skill overrides counters, and skills overrides OP-ness at some point, how is champion selection not important? When you are worse than your opponent, but because of using a certain OP champion, you win, isn't that considered game breaking? You haven't replied to this point.

Counter picking is fair because it's just like Rock-paper-scissors. When scissors win both rock and paper, it needs a balance.

Cater1 votes

What if I'm a god Ahri, but she is banned and picked all the time, because rito decided to make her op and shitters are playing her.

FDS Desperado1 votes

Well then your life is going to suck until ahri falls out of flavor of the month lol. I used to play riven a lot before she got really strong and then they nerfed her and things were okay again after that. Same thing happened with kha and nasus too after his rework.

Sucks when a champion you like becomes FOTM.

Cater1 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bZBvx3jI,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-02-12T15:46:16.253+0000)

Well then your life is going to suck until ahri falls out of flavor of the month lol. I used to play riven a lot before she got really strong and then they nerfed her and things were okay again after that. Same thing happened with kha and nasus too after his rework.

Sucks when a champion you like becomes FOTM.

Well, she has been FOTM for 7 months now and I don't think they plan on giving her a proper nerf. After all, the balance team made Ahri FOTM on purpose.

FDS Desperado1 votes

Yeah the balance team is drunk at the wheel but what's new.

thinking man1 votes

Do you need help tying your shoes in the morning?

ForgiveColour1 votes

Comfort champ > op in bronze + silvers but they dont know that because they only watch lcs to see whats op instead of trying to learn the game

insaiyanbacca1 votes

you needed a kha'zix icon at the end after adapt just saying

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