Can we please get one more AP+Armor item?

ThePikol·Jun 12, 2017·25 votes·990 views

All we have is . While adc and assasins have a lot of AD+MR items to chose from. They can build according to matchup and their champ. . Mages are limited to Zhonya and let me tell you it's not even good item on some mages. How can I defent myself from 4 AD enemies if I'm ? What if I am behind? I have no items for survivability exept AP+HP like Rylai and Liandry I have range on my spells? Well Cait and Trist has pretty nice range too and they have items to defend from me

69 Comments

AhristocatsJun 12, 201712 votes

one k range mages aren't supposed to tank assassin's damage

if you're vel'koz, you're not supposed to survive from an assassin you're supposed to use your huge range to not let them kill you

if they manage to travel your range, they will be alone without a team and your team can easily take them down especially since you have ccs

ThePikolJun 12, 20176 votes

Ok, forget assasins. What about adc? If Trist jump on me as Vel, she can tank my dmg building AD+ME while I'm blown up having no item to defend myself.

AhristocatsJun 12, 20177 votes

if the enemy backline is attacking your own backline something went wrong

and i can hardly see tristana building MR, what exactly is she going to build except maybe the QSS upgrade? nothing everything else will be crit and glass canon

ThePikolJun 12, 20179 votes

Backline attacking backline happens everygame in low elo. I know game shouldn't be balanced arout it but having an option to defend would be nice

MelledoneusJun 12, 20172 votes

Duo with someone who is humane enough to play a tanky champion to soak it up for you.

Low elo doesn't leave you with great teammates.

CasterGilgameshJun 12, 20172 votes

one more armor item won't make mages able to tank assassins also its not even the assassins i worry about im more worried about the adcs tbh

RalanrJun 12, 20173 votes

It'd make the more durable than they need to be imo. Plus what's to stop tanks from using that item?

CasterGilgameshJun 12, 20171 votes

what stops tanks from using it would be that either there are better pure tank items and even if the tanks could use them its fine as long as its not broken on them and with the low scalings tanks tend to have i hihgly doubt it unless riot gives the ap armor item a literal ton of ap

RalanrJun 12, 20171 votes

They'd have to for mages to consider it since we do have 2 AP armor items already.

Unless Zeke's lost either the AP or the armor

CasterGilgameshJun 12, 20171 votes

zekes is getting updated and plus zekes was a bad item even before it became what is was now no mage would buy zekes because there is no way to reliably control the passive so its better to get item 3089

RalanrJun 12, 20172 votes

Yeah. So if the Armor AP item is good, why wouldn't tanks build it?

NineTailedMysticJun 13, 20171 votes

Something as a passive or active that makes it undesirable to them.

CasterGilgameshJun 13, 20171 votes

because tanks dont have the scalings to make it really worth besides some outliers like Galio Chogath Amumu

RalanrJun 13, 20172 votes

Some AP is better than no AP.

CasterGilgameshJun 13, 20171 votes

so even if its literally just a rift version item 3170 that would be op in your eyes...

RalanrJun 13, 20172 votes

If you want tanks using a new AP armor item, then fine.

I'm just warning you what will probably happen and that it'll lead the item to being nerfed.

An Undead bratJun 12, 20171 votes

Did tanks ever build Zhonya even when it was actually strong?

RalanrJun 12, 20173 votes

No because the active is honestly the worst thing a tank could use.

An Undead bratJun 12, 20171 votes

Then how do you get a AP armor item that tanks don't abuse? [slayer-jinx-wink]

RalanrJun 12, 20171 votes

It's why I'm against one.

ZapMyHeartJun 13, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Bisex Plant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bPxAMiGl,comment-id=000300010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-06-12T21:21:23.756+0000)

They how do you get a AP armor item that tanks don't abuse? [slayer-jinx-wink]

Make another build path for Seeker's Armguard. Or come up with another new build path that doesn't use tank starter items.

An Undead bratJun 13, 20171 votes

Or more like come up with another active/passive tank won't want for sure.

MuffledGarbageJun 12, 20171 votes

but assassin's are supposed to tank mages damage?

AhristocatsJun 13, 20173 votes

i don't think assassins are tanking mages damage right now

they're just a bit tankier so they don't blow up before they come in melee range of them, which is fair

crzymdscntstJun 12, 20175 votes

The big issue is that they keep removing or reworking mage items without giving ANY compensatory changes.

The most ideal thing they could do right now is create a version of item 3170 for SR. The problem once again rises that manaless champs continue to abuse anything without a mana component. It simply means they can build items without even equating mana as a factor. It bars them from Archangel's and the like, but maintenance of a resource is not a factor here.

Also, it's a terrible idea for lots of reasons but... "technically" there is an AP/Armor item. item 3050 (30 armor, 50 AP) (Until the rework of it forces it into the support slot like it did with Banner of Command, before they shafted even that version to make it a tank item.)

Ideally, item 3047 item 3050 item 3157 30 + 30 + 45 = 105 Armor (about 135 depending on passive armor)... which is just barely enough to hit 100's 50% reduction, before even considering armor pen. It's definitely concerning.

But also consider the MR mage items: item 3174 item 3102

The best options mages have for any sort of durability stems from HP items; item 3116 item 3151 item 3152 item 3030 item 3027 ... of which GLP overlaps with RoA and Protobelt, Liandry's relies on Rylai's on half of the casters... which means you really have to completely dedicate to what you started and ditch half of your other options if you want that GLP version.

CasterGilgameshJun 12, 20174 votes

i want riot to bring item 3170 back to the rift

PePsiLemoNNJun 12, 20173 votes

item 3091 ? Really?

And if you realy are against 4 AD - item 3047

DracocrashJun 13, 20171 votes

ikr reallY!?

PePsiLemoNNJun 13, 20171 votes

Wait really?

Starcraft243verJun 12, 20172 votes

Buy multiple zonias !

ThePikolJun 12, 20174 votes

If only they wouldn't share cooldown :D

SchenixJun 12, 20172 votes

Actually, I think Zhonyas is pretty damn powerful and fits more situations than it should. The AP needs to be reduced on it for scaling AP and favor of more armor, plus another item needs to grant another passive and have more AP with less armor. Just for a start.

There needs to be a real niche or decision, because even if we added another AP Armor item, Mages would rarely use it unless it was broken because Zhonyas just actually is that good and it softens the buffer between positioning and aggression.

Long range can position to deal much more with a quick burst and then use Zhonyas to mitigate the cooldowns of an assassin -- or go in to deal heavy hits and wait for the team to converge on it whilst you remain untouchable and other threats appear. Or that unwarded territory can turn into baits because it exists, or a dive becomes purposefully asked for due to the existence of buying such an item, and retain damage. Seeker's is the lane item -- but the Hourglass has always been a problem item in League due to it's incredible usefulness, that magnifies itself tenfold in professional play.

So a new item(s) would again need to have checks and balances that softly redesign Hourglass and allow for dynamic decisions to be made on what you really want between all the choices.

NineTailedMysticJun 13, 20172 votes

Zhonya's already gives dumpster tier AP.

SchenixJun 13, 20171 votes

Scaling + Base rectifies consistency issues of AP per point of game and build so it isn't overbearing or dumpstered should it be balanced well on an item.

zaire90Jun 13, 20172 votes

When he says assassins buts forgets about the ap ones

ZapMyHeartJun 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

When he says assassins buts forgets about the ap ones

AP assassins are not really problematic at the moment. Also, they are in the same boat as mages, which means that they can blow up mages as easily as them being blown up by mages.

It's usually the opposite type, which in this case, are mages vs ADC/AD assassins, that is causing issues. ADs get better defense options against mages than vice versa.

That is the point of this thread.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 13, 20171 votes

And its totaly legit... AD assassin expose themself to deal damage. Mage deal damage from a safe position.

ZapMyHeartJun 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bPxAMiGl,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T07:33:11.510+0000)

And its totaly legit... AD assassin expose themself to deal damage. Mage deal damage from a safe position.

What's safe about an immobile mage with skillshots and low MS? Assassins have instacast mobility that gets them up close and personal, easily negating that "safe position".

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 13, 20171 votes

During laning phase u have the range to farm safely, after laning phase its up to u if u are in assassin range. and there already some item to help u item 3157 item 3102 item 3030 item 3152 ... And then there summoner 4 summoner 6 summoner 3 .

But to begin if u die from an assassin most of time its due to your fault.

ZapMyHeartJun 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bPxAMiGl,comment-id=000e0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-13T13:59:53.442+0000)

During laning phase u have the range to farm safely, after laning phase its up to u if u are in assassin range. and there already some item to help u ... And then there .

But to begin if u die from an assassin most of time its due to your fault.

Too bad most AD assassins are resourceless and mages have finite resources. If you want to keep up in farm, you're going to have to build early mana. Meanwhile, those assassins can build a Hexdrinker and still wreck.

Besides Zhonyas, the other 3 items are not appropriate to counter them. Banshee's negate a spell, but is also MR-based, making it an expensive spellshield, while all AD assassins have to do is sit on a hexdrinker and call it a day. Assassins can also simply pop the shield, wait a little before their cooldowns are up to instagib you to death or initiate and then back off after dealing a lot of poke. GLP items are situational and the first one is meh and the belt doesn't dash you far enough to escape death.

Speaking of Zhonya's, its build path is purely defense and doesn't the damage that Hexdrinker gives. You have to build a complete Zhonya's in order to even keep up. By that time, the assassin in question, if they were even a semi-decent player, should outscale and outplay you easily.

Summoner spells are on a huge cooldown, so let's not even bring that up. It's like "just CC them". Pointless.

If I died from an assassin WITHOUT counterbuilding, then it IS my fault. HOWEVER, the counterbuilding potential is NOT there. Assassins have more OPPORTUNITIES for counterbuilding THAN mages.

It's really not that hard to figure out. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

deadlychuckJun 13, 20171 votes

Talon Zed would disagree

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 13, 20172 votes

U mean talon dosn't expose himself ??? nice joke. Same for Zed (its less noticeable for lower elo but Zed appear behind u after his ult).

deadlychuckJun 13, 20172 votes

Your claim was that they

AD assassin expose themself to deal damage

When in fact, both of them can deal substantial damage from a safe position. Obviously zed more so than talon.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 14, 20172 votes

And ??? If they don't come at cac they deal almost nothing. Most of Talon damage are on his passive (need a auto). But the proc of item 3147 need a auto. So yeah they expose themself.

Unlike ap mage Ahri Velkoz Taliyah Syndra Viktor ...

So yeah if u are hit by an assassin its due to ur mistake.

deadlychuckJun 14, 20171 votes

God you're one of the most annoying kind of cancerous people in the game smh.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 14, 20172 votes

so childish....

What's cancerous here ???

deadlychuckJun 14, 20171 votes

AD assassin expose themself to deal damage. Mage deal damage from a safe position.

Yet you will ignore two examples of AD assassins who can deal damage from a safe position. I'm just calling you "cancerous" because I've grown tired of people who... how do i put it... are bad for the quality of the game.

Valaran NaraJun 13, 20171 votes

What about AD + Armor? There's only one item that does that, and it's the refurbished GA

ThePikolJun 13, 20172 votes

Well, yeah, but I'm talking about AD vs Mages. One can defend vs another while the other can't. If you want to talk about battle vs the same class, Mages too have only one item. AP+MR item 3102

Valaran NaraJun 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well, yeah, but I'm talking about AD vs Mages. One can defend vs another while the other can't. If you want to talk about battle vs the same class, Mages too have only one item. AP+MR

item 3174

But I get your point. That and Zeke's is more of a support.