As much as Zoe has wrong with her kit, can people stop calling her overloaded?

SpecterVonBaren·Jan 1, 2018·2 votes·580 views

Seriously, especially compared to CertainlyT's other creations she's incredibly simple in terms ofkit abilities. Her passive gives her more damage, her Q is just ranged damage, her E is a CC ability that deals damage and lets you deal more damage after hitting it. Her ult can let you dodge abilities or maybe scout but it's really just there to to increase her Q damage.

The only thing that can be called overloaded is her W purely because of the fact it lets her use any summoner spells and many active items.

Poorly designed? Sure. Too RNG based with her W? Certainly. But as far as having an overloaded kit (Especially in comparison to Thresh, Yasuo and Kalista) she's actually pretty simple.

19 Comments

KilanostJan 1, 20182 votes

Call it what you will, but taking a tank to half health with one spell is a toxic game element.

lolipopevelynnJan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Call it what you will, but taking a tank to half health with one spell is a toxic game element.

her Q is her only significant source of damage. honestly veigar, syndra, annie can do the exact same thing with there full combo.

GlîtchyJan 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

her Q is her only significant source of damage. honestly veigar, syndra, annie can do the exact same thing with there full combo.

Veigar's SO EASY to beat, no mobility and the moment his stun misses, he's already lost the trade, Zoe's biggest issue is the Q especially when combo'd with sleep which turns her from Zoe into Cosby

chipndip1Jan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Veigar's SO EASY to beat, no mobility and the moment his stun misses, he's already lost the trade, Zoe's biggest issue is the Q especially when combo'd with sleep which turns her from Zoe into Cosby

So if she misses Q...you're saying she lost the trade?

GlîtchyJan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So if she misses Q...you're saying she lost the trade?

Not even close, the cooldown is stupid short, I meant to say "her biggest BALANCE issue" but I'm in new year morning mode so I goofed

chipndip1Jan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Not even close, the cooldown is stupid short, I meant to say "her biggest BALANCE issue" but I'm in new year morning mode so I goofed

No, if she misses Q, she loses the trade, and anyone blatantly stupid enough to try to continue the trade is probably going to get iced. Q is like 3/4s of her damage. Having it fly into the wind, having to wait a couple seconds, and then having to prep its travel distance AGAIN? Meanwhile the enemy's free to retaliate? No, when you miss Q, you lose the trade. Be objective.

GlîtchyJan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, if she misses Q, she loses the trade, and anyone blatantly stupid enough to try to continue the trade is probably going to get iced. Q is like 3/4s of her damage. Having it fly into the wind, having to wait a couple seconds, and then having to prep its travel distance AGAIN? Meanwhile the enemy's free to retaliate? No, when you miss Q, you lose the trade. Be objective.

We're talking about a champ who can stall with ult and sleep (which gets reduced CD when an endmy falls victim to it)

chipndip1Jan 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

We're talking about a champ who can stall with ult and sleep (which gets reduced CD when an endmy falls victim to it)

Here's my issue: You guys on these boards are insufferable. If it's a high skill cap champ with tons of combos and dashes, you guys whine that a 48% win rate is broken. If it's a low skill cap champ, you guys whine that it's brain dead. You can't have an actual discussion about the champ because you guys are so caught up in bitching about the STUPIDEST shit to bitch about.

Like, you can't talk about the actual ways a Zoe player with some skill in their play would influence a game because you have to get caught up with the baby ragers that can't dodge a simple E cast right in their face, or won't build a freaking cleanse/banshee's, or someone that can't catch an immobile mage with no escapes, with an ult that returns her back to where she cast it from so you can easily punish her like you would anyone using Zhonya's or GA. "OMG SHE CAN PUT ME TO SLEEP. She wins every trade because I can't dodge Q". Yeah, and Lux can just up and root you and doesn't have to announce to the world that she's throwing out E before she hits you with it. The point? Like come on...

Side note: Zoe is a high elo pick. You shouldn't have these issues dealing with a low elo Zoe, given your elo. Stop making excuses.

GlîtchyJan 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Here's my issue: You guys on these boards are insufferable. If it's a high skill cap champ with tons of combos and dashes, you guys whine that a 48% win rate is broken. If it's a low skill cap champ, you guys whine that it's brain dead. You can't have an actual discussion about the champ because you guys are so caught up in bitching about the STUPIDEST shit to bitch about.

Like, you can't talk about the actual ways a Zoe player with some skill in their play would influence a game because you have to get caught up with the baby ragers that can't dodge a simple E cast right in their face, or won't build a freaking cleanse/banshee's, or someone that can't catch an immobile mage with no escapes, with an ult that returns her back to where she cast it from so you can easily punish her like you would anyone using Zhonya's or GA. "OMG SHE CAN PUT ME TO SLEEP. She wins every trade because I can't dodge Q". Yeah, and Lux can just up and root you and doesn't have to announce to the world that she's throwing out E before she hits you with it. The point? Like come on...

Side note: Zoe is a high elo pick. You shouldn't have these issues dealing with a low Zoe, given your elo. Stop making excuses.

Lemme tell you why that's bullshit, the whole "win rate determines how balanced a champ is" is actually BEYOND WRONG, Syndra's broken her winrate hasn't gone up an insane amount, Fizz is broken but same as Syndra, not really high,

Let's face it, cussing someone out makes your argument look weak, so don't say we're "bitching" when you're the one throwing crap into the fan, besides saying an ability is "easy to dodge" doesn't mean it's balanced, "just Zhonya to dodge" yes, cause we can use Zhonya every 3 seconds, also by that logic we can call everything in the game balanced since we can Zhonya any ability

chipndip1Jan 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Zoe, given your elo. Stop making excuses.

Lemme tell you why that's bullshit

No. Lemme tell YOU why I didn't read past this sentence.

Zoe in your elo is often played by people that can't play the champ well, and if they do, they still can't carry the morons around them. In MY elo, Zoe actually serves as a potential threat. In YOUR elo, she's a stepping stool for elo...FOR YOU. Whine all you want. You're losing to people that don't know how to play the champ. Get better at the game.

GlîtchyJan 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No. Lemme tell YOU why I didn't read past this sentence.

Zoe in your elo is often played by people that can't play the champ well, and if they do, they still can't carry the morons around them. In MY elo, Zoe actually serves as a potential threat. In YOUR elo, she's a stepping stool for elo...FOR YOU. Whine all you want. You're losing to people that don't know how to play the champ. Get better at the game.

You know I just love how you seem to think insulting me is actually getting you anywhere in this, if anything it's making you look highly immature

KilanostJan 1, 20182 votes

you can haphazardly land a full distance zoe nuke and wreck the enemy team without truly aiming in the chaost of a team fight from a distance that doesn't really put you in harms way and no indicator as to where its coming from. Veigar's dark matter is well telegraphed. I use that spell because its the closest thing damage-wise to what zoe can put out. the difference in terms of gameplay and counterplay is enormous.

Syndra's full combo requires you to be close enough to get it off and not get CCed and killed. Annie basically has to go to melee range to drop tibbers and, again, this requires a full combo to successfully be done without being killed from that short range.

The issue isn't the damage as much as it is the low risk and low counterplay nature of it as well as the low risk high reward situation that gets created from just slinging her q without need for aiming and long distances.

SpecterVonBarenJan 1, 20181 votes

Toxic is not the same as overloaded.... A champ can be toxic while not being overloaded, which is what I'm arguing here.

KilanostJan 1, 20181 votes

hyper mobile, incredible range, free summoner spells, damaging CC that turns into an AOE CC trap on miss and refunds CD on hit with tons of damage? Yes overloaded.

Overloaded to the point of toxicity.

SpecterVonBarenJan 1, 20181 votes

She's not hyper mobile for one thing, and for another, she doesn't do a lot of things. Look at what she's actually doing, she's almost entirely a damage based champion, she has one source of utility outside of her pot luck W which is her E, everything else is just about increasing her damage. Just listing off what a champ can do does not make that an overloaded kit.

Compare her to someone like Thresh, made by the same person, look at all the different things he gets. Infinitely scaling AP and armor, a long range displacement tool that can also be used as a gap closer, a W that shields himself and an ally and can move an ally from long range and even over walls, a displacement ability that can be used to push an enemy away or pull them closer while also giving him empowered auto attacks and a five sided box that inflicts a heavy slow on enemies that pass through it.

ZapMyHeartJan 1, 20182 votes

Mostly it comes from her E. That skill is one of the most obnoxiously overloaded skill in the game.

CDR refund upon hit, acts as a mini stun, converts next damage into true damage, can be fired from far away via terrains outside FoW, slows, and leaves a zoning area that remains for 4 seconds (at level 1) with the same full benefits if an enemy just barely nicks it.

It's certainly CertainlyT's brain child because of how annoyingly OP it is. Taking a page from Jhin and tossing in yet another 4 on one of his creations (1st is Yasuo's WW at level 1 lasting for 4 seconds).

AhristocatsJan 1, 20181 votes

cd refund is a weakness not a strength

when will people learn that if a champion has cd refund on a spell, it means that he needs the spell to be on low cd but for the sake of counterplay the cd is not low if he misses the spell

if zoe didn't have cd refund on E, her E cd would be lower

just like thresh Q

ZapMyHeartJan 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bPGXcPZW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-01-01T22:34:30.496+0000)

cd refund is a weakness not a strength

when will people learn that if a champion has cd refund on a spell, it means that he needs the spell to be on low cd but for the sake of counterplay the cd is not low if he misses the spell

if zoe didn't have cd refund on E, her E cd would be lower

just like thresh Q

Meh. Still a pro in conjunction with all the rest of the stuff going on in that skill. Not like Thresh's binary Q that latches onto something. If her E cd is going to much lower than it already is, she'd be banned 100% of the time due to the rest of the obnoxious crap that I've mentioned that you didn't bother to address.

Because of how overloaded her E is, the CD should be much higher than it is currently.