Instead of nerfing Yorick, nerf demolish and buff towers.

DragonShea·Nov 14, 2017·160 votes·5,707 views

Yorick is losing 3 Base AD in the PBE and that sucks while champs like Twitch and Ezreal are running amok.

But hey! Take him down another split pusher will take his place since towers are made of wet paper atm.

EDIT: For now Yorick's nerf is getting shaved but it's still out of Riot's minds, also thanks for so many upvotes in such a short time.

EDIT 2: Like I mentioned before, the nerf's are not out of Riot's minds. And Yorick is getting the nef bat in the next patch. just after towers got a semi buff FFS. Demolish really should be weaker in the early game but as strong as it is mid to late game as Yorick's power lies with his Base AD due to and

134 Comments

Shifue DravenNov 14, 201751 votes

Again goes to show riot has no ideal what they are doing. Yorick is a rare pick as is and was designed to split yet lets nerf him. Meanwhile we got twitch playing every position and wrecking everything ezreal breaking items and runes (for the 5th time) tristana blowing everything up with little to no counter play and more damage added that the game did not need to begin that adcs have easy access to. Yet lets nerf a rarely played champ so he gets played less.

DormidonNov 14, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shifue Draven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bHnF4qs0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-14T05:07:42.744+0000)

Again goes to show riot has no ideal what they are doing. Yorick is a rare pick as is and was designed to split yet lets nerf him. Meanwhile we got twitch playing every position and wrecking everything ezreal breaking items and runes (for the 5th time) tristana blowing everything up with little to no counter play and more damage added that the game did not need to begin that adcs have easy access to. Yet lets nerf a rarely played champ so he gets played less.

Pf-f that's just temporary. Couple of patches being in that state and you'll see him as top meta pick.

DeadUnbornNov 14, 201713 votes

you are the clueless one. Yorick has currently 56% win rate because his Q was changed to work on towers, which with trinity demolishes them

General Esdeath Nov 14, 20177 votes

Then clearly the problem isn't 3 AD, it's the rune, the same one people were complaining about. Still waiting for Twitch nerfs btw. It's preseason, still waiting.

DeadUnbornNov 14, 20175 votes

No worries I'll explain it to you:

Trinity force procs on towers and uses BASE AD to scale up. Using Q, Yorick is not only getting extra damage from the ability, but also from Steraks Gage and Trinity force, which help to increase the Q damage by a lot when he hits towers. By reducing 3 base AD, they are actually nerfing the tirnity force plus Q plus steraks damage quite a bit.

If the Demolish Key Stone was busted, then all splitpushers that took it would be broken, not just Yorick. Because Yorick is the only OP splitpusher at the moment, is easy to infer that Q proccing on towers was what over buffed him

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Twitch/

Twitch has a 51% win rate and DOES NOT need a nerf. It is just that inexperienced players disproportionally struggle against him. At this point is sort of like a whiny meme that serves as a flag for people to say "I HAVE NOT MASTERED MAP AWARENESS YET"

DCYOUNG888Nov 14, 20171 votes

Good news, the Yorick nerf is getting reverted.

https://twitter.com/RiotMapleNectar/status/930546731338514432

DeadUnbornNov 14, 20173 votes

It's not getting reverted, they are holding on to it until they can assess if Yorick is really OP or it was just that people didn't have enough time to adapt to him.

DCYOUNG888Nov 14, 20172 votes

My bad, meant to say this pbe patch.

DragonSheaNov 14, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Good news, the Yorick nerf is getting reverted.

https://twitter.com/RiotMapleNectar/status/930546731338514432

That is the good stuff right there. But still we have an issue with Towers as they fall to fast. They need to be buffed while demolish might need a nerf. Another gripe I had with the 3 AD lost is that Yorick is reliant on Trinity to deal damage to champions and it would mess that up for him.

General Esdeath Nov 15, 20172 votes

Except Triforce always scaled from base AD, the only new thing added this patch was the rune.

DeadUnbornNov 15, 20173 votes

No it wasn't. Yorick's Q used to not proc on towers until this patch

LakegaNov 15, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shifue Draven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bHnF4qs0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-14T05:07:42.744+0000)

Again goes to show riot has no ideal what they are doing. Yorick is a rare pick as is and was designed to split yet lets nerf him. Meanwhile we got twitch playing every position and wrecking everything ezreal breaking items and runes (for the 5th time) tristana blowing everything up with little to no counter play and more damage added that the game did not need to begin that adcs have easy access to. Yet lets nerf a rarely played champ so he gets played less.

Not to mention I think they removed Tristana's ability to get CC'ed during her jump, or at least make it much harder. It used to be for the months leading up to the last patch I could jump on a Tristana, and if I was fast enough get my E off, and it'd pull her back to me even if she had jumped, and so long as her jump wasn't past half way I'd get her back to me.

Now I can't do that, she ignores my pull. It's bullshit.

I hate how Riot removes counters to champs that are already insanely broken. It's like when they removed Darius's ult from getting a full CD just because someone was able to slam the hourglass fast enough. I mean c'mon. That skill is so stupidly broken. Full damage, no reset on a kill.. fking give me a break.

vgamedudeNov 14, 201726 votes

Why nerf split pushers but leave insane hyper carry adcs alone? Can no other lane get anything nice besides bot lane?

DragonSheaNov 14, 201716 votes

{quoted}

Why nerf split pushers but leave insane hyper carry adcs alone? Can no other lane get anything nice besides bot lane?

Well let's go ask riot. They will properly give us a well written but bad in practice explanation on why they are nerfing split pusher, but not ADC's.

Auz the RipperNov 14, 20175 votes

"Splitpushers are ""non-interactive""" Riot, probably

XonraNov 14, 20179 votes

Naw, it's fine to leave Ez (who was already the clear and obvious worst case of strongest Champion thanks to runes), but nerf Sona and Yorick (the ones RIOT doesn't like, bu ignoring Ez flat out).

GayFluffyUnicornNov 14, 20173 votes

The circlejerk is real here. While i do hate riots favorism i'm certainly not ignoring sonas busted winrate and playrate with pretty much most of the keystones after she#s already been a toppick in s7. So in other words you guys are not better than rito.

XonraNov 15, 20172 votes

I didn't say Sona didn't deserve to get nerfed, but they jumped on that instantly, and STILL haven't touched Ez. All that has been said is they (riot) are "internally discussing" him. Which means we will be seeing him like this for a while.

Also she wasn't a "top pick" in season 7. Yes she was a "popular" champ, but Soraka, Janna, and Lulu were the "top" picks, not Sona. Not saying she was bottom of the barrel, but she was like...4-5 on the list maybe, and you make it sound like she was the MVP, which was NEVER the case. Maybe she was higher somewhere, but in low elo she was no where to be seen, and in the highest elo she was most assuredly not top.

I'm sorry that you just hate anyone not praising Riot and think anyone saying anything is just a negative circlejerk.

WolfChasesNov 14, 20177 votes

Ez broken because of runes? Nope, big foocking nope. Ez is broken because he simply is. His kit allows him to abuse things every single season or a major patch. Ez simply needs a rework, not a nerf. He can't be ballanced at his current state.

LordGeovanniNov 14, 20173 votes

or a nerf until his rework like every other class

WolfChasesNov 14, 20177 votes

I am affraid they won't. Its clear that riots favorite class is ADC, even if they nerf them slightly they always compensate them with something else, so at the end of the season ADCs end at the top and every meta is about ADC. You will see, they will nerf runes and items, not Ezreal.

What classes are viable at the top lane? You can play tanks, bruisers, even some mages and ofc ADCs as a counterpicks.

What classes can you play mid? Mages and Assassins, even some ADCs ofc.

Jungle? Assassins, Bruisers, Tanks, aaaand? Skraaaaa ADC ofc.

But, when it comes to bot lane, heck it ALWAYS has to be ADC and Support.

We had seasons where Tanks were out of meta, we had seasons where Assassins or bruisers were considered "pocket picks", but who cares, ADC is always in the meta.

DoktorKaiserNov 14, 20172 votes

The last time Ezreal was broken was season 2, the last time he abused an item was season 4 but ok keep spewing shit...

WolfChasesNov 14, 20172 votes

Lol.... What about Blue Ez? Smite Ez, Ludens Ez, Mid, Bot, Jungle, Space, Void, underwatter Ezreal? He goes wgere he pleases. The only thing we miss rightnow is full tank Ez and then he is complete.

DoktorKaiserNov 15, 20172 votes

Blue Ezreal is Season 2 and start of Season 3 build when he was actually overpowered and not a thing that costs your team games due to 0 damage compared to crit ADC, after season 2 his W was gutted and he was never super broken again. Smite Ezreal is the one who abused runeglaive in season 4, but the item was also hard abused by Nidalee and Elise, even Fiddle so its a dumb thing to say that he solely caused the item to be removed. Ludens Ezeral??? When the fuck did any sort of AP Ezreal manage to crawl into meta?? As for the positions, he can go ADC or jungle recently and it only happened because he had bellow 45% win rate on ADC due to crit cancers, AP or AD Ezreal mid is bad and cripples your team. As I said stop writing stupid shit. Its like saying he abuses Duskblade when 30 other champs also do that... He was a problem in Season 2, now its just a meme like nerf Irelia...

General Esdeath Nov 14, 20172 votes

I've just given up on fighting this, and have decided to become an ADC main. Top was fun but there's literally no pressure in it unless you're a super fed split pusher.

AbibyamaNov 14, 201720 votes

They’re going to buff towers btw

Edit: Nice downvotes, Here's a link to Maple Nectar confirming tower buffs: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/M85EEWLB-does-riot-actually-listen-to-our-feedback?comment=000a00010002

DragonSheaNov 14, 20173 votes

{quoted}

They’re going to buff towers btw

When?

AbibyamaNov 14, 20174 votes

7.23

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/M85EEWLB-does-riot-actually-listen-to-our-feedback?comment=000a00010002

PhDs NutsNov 14, 20177 votes

{quoted}

7.23

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/M85EEWLB-does-riot-actually-listen-to-our-feedback?comment=000a00010002

He said there are turret changes coming, not necessarily turret buffs. In the thread he linked in that comment he even said demolish is fine. Not getting my hopes up at all for this one.

XonraNov 14, 20174 votes

You really believe that? I sure don't.

AbibyamaNov 14, 20174 votes

Yes i do believe that

TeCoolMageNov 14, 201720 votes

In this thread: STOP RUINING OUR ANTI RIOT CIRCLE JERK WITH EVIDENCE

AbibyamaNov 14, 20178 votes

DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO

XonraNov 15, 20171 votes

"Evidence"

"TL;DR - we're looking at some stuff with turrets for pre-season, we might not ship anything"

"I haven't seen a demolish abuse case yet"

Yup, all that evidence where Riot says there are looking at some stuff and might not actually even do anything at all and don't see a problem.

You guys didn't even read what the guy said did you?

TeCoolMageNov 15, 20174 votes

We're actually shipping some changes to turrets on 7.23 that didn't quite make preseason.

literally cherry picks everything but the link right in front of you

Cyan1d333Nov 14, 201715 votes

Riot making a competent decision regarding balance?

https://media.giphy.com/media/L8XuphFGqlSfe/giphy.gif

Surely you're joking.

XonraNov 14, 201711 votes

Ez the biggest rune abuser. Better nerf Sona first though.

Ez got his Q changed (it is flat out a buff) as did Yorick. Ah well, Nerf Yorick first even though Ez' winrate is quite blatantly bigger and is a much worse case than Yorick, who is supposed to be a split pusher...split pushing well. God forbid he finally do well past people that main him.

Critmaster GarenNov 14, 20175 votes

id say they should revert his ability to q towers, and then buff tower resistance overall by a LOT.

the 3 base ad nerf is not just the wrong nerf, but also pretty much useless, since it changes nothing about why yorick is so strong at the moment.

the reason why i think demolish in concept is a good thing, is that it makes the game less reliant on ranged carries to siege objectives. however, turrets do overall fall way too fast. not just to demolish, but to all types of champions.

yorick just takes this to the extreme, since he can often summon his maiden to pressure his opponent and destroy the enemy turret with a mix of demolish, maiden and ghoul damage, and his new ability to hit/poke at turrets with sheen procs.

its not unlike when trundle had the ability to q turrets to take them insanely fast.

XonraNov 14, 20174 votes

I say he already should have been able to Q towers. He is a tower taking split pusher. He hasn't been that great before preseason compared to a lot of others outside of mains spamming him.

While I agree that nerf won't really hit the issue Riot sees, it is still just annoying to see. I can very well see him being just flat out bad once preseason is over, cause instead of buffing towers, Riot is just going to start hitting all the bruisers that use Demolish like Yorick.

Also Trundle can Q turrets again with his bite. For some reason no one seems to remember that already cause he is a great split pusher right now.

Critmaster GarenNov 14, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I say he already should have been able to Q towers. He is a tower taking split pusher. He hasn't been that great before preseason compared to a lot of others outside of mains spamming him.

While I agree that nerf won't really hit the issue Riot sees, it is still just annoying to see. I can very well see him being just flat out bad once preseason is over, cause instead of buffing towers, Riot is just going to start hitting all the bruisers that use Demolish like Yorick.

Also Trundle can Q turrets again with his bite. For some reason no one seems to remember that already cause he is a great split pusher right now.

yes, hes a split pusher. but its not demolish that pushed him over the edge.

his triforce empowered shovel slaps deal more additional damage to turrets than demolish does. especially with the recent steraks buff.

they should revert this change instead of nerfing his duelling power. the problem i see is, that if theyre balancing him around his current ability to wreck turrets, theyll eventually nerf his ability to fight other champions to the point where he cant win lane anymore to capitalize on his ability to push insanely fast.

MuffledGarbageNov 14, 20173 votes

The Q doesn't do the Q damage to towers now. It only let's trinity proc more. This in turn allows Yorick to peel himself whenever an enemy team is around the corner MUCH easier.

Before the Q change, for Yorick to splitpush at 100% efficiency you would have to burn W and E after Q to proc Trinity.

After the change, Yorick can splitpush and use Q to proc Trinity at the same-ish speed(give or take 1-2 seconds) in order to take towers.

Yorick will always be able to duel other champions very well as long as his Ultimate still does 7% max health damage possible every 2 seconds.

Reverting the Q change wouldn't do much.

MuffledGarbageNov 14, 20173 votes

Yorick's Q doesn't deal the Q damage to the towers, it only allows for Yorick to proc Trinity force faster without using E or W.

Yorick is strong because splitpushing has been buffed thanks to Demolish. Yorick is strong because of how his bad lane matchups have turned to be a lot easier to win.

Fiora is a good example of a character Yorick has a problem with.

Before new runes: Yorick loses trades with Fiora and can't farm outside of tower without losing 10% health(give or take 5%) Yorick rushes a Thornmail and falls behind because he can't splitpush very well without Trinity.

With new runes: Yorick out-trades Fiora pre6. Yorick can trade with Fiora more safely in lane phase. When yorick gets to Fiora's tower, even though he still has to rush Thornmail, he doesn't fall behind as much.

That's only one example of how the new runes have helped Yorick become better.

Let's just take a look at what it is that makes Yorick...Yorick.

Pros: Splitpusher Great Duelist Can 1v2 with ultimate Sustain Good Peel Can make Terrain

Cons: Being behind (used to be a huge burden) but now it's not as bad. Slow movespeed Weak pre-6 Has low 1-6 stats Super Kite-able

So now we know what Yorick likes to do. Any Yorick worth his weight in gold will be garunteed to take Demolish within his runesets. This helps his Splitpusher identity. Any other runes are up for grabs for yorick. Ultimate hat? have maiden out more. Celerity? That extra 100 health will help him deal with his bad matchups better. Magical footwear? Free boots say Yorick gets more effective gold which means more gold efficient which leads to better splitpushing.

The only thing Demolish does is force enemies to build Sunfire and Warmogs.

Those two items together stop a Yorick from splitpushing entirely and nearly EVERY toplaner can take those two items.

Granted Sunfire isn't good in fights, but you aren't looking to duel one of the best duelists in the game, are you?

JaspersNov 14, 20173 votes

It may be best just to revert the Q change now. Wait for Runes to balance out then put it back in if all it was that caused the spike was runes not being balanced. I'm unsure as to why in this next patch, they are doing ANY champion changes at all. Runes are what changed, they need balancing. 3AD won't do anything to a champ who just buys Trinity and Sterak's anyway against towers but will hurt his farming and trading in early laning. Which is why I like him. He has enough tools to take down towers, so remove the Q on towers and put that 3AD back on him. I'm just going to pick demolish, buy a Zz'Rot and take Herald at 10 mins anyway.

SnakDatSmilesBakNov 14, 20171 votes

Don't buy zzrot on top yorick.

JaspersNov 14, 20174 votes

... so I should buy it on Mid AP Max E Yorick?

AzadetheNov 14, 20173 votes

Or..... have your team protect against the split pusher. Top is famous for split pushers who can take turrets, especially Yorick, Nasus, and Tryn. Any of those games, your team should be working on relentlessly killing top.

Demolish is fine. It only does about 400 damage early have and about 800-900 damage late game, and only once per turret. There are SKILLS that do more; Siphoning strike. Galio's Passive. Diana's Lich bane procs with passive. And if a player is expected to have it, they're not hard to focus on.

DeusVultNov 14, 20173 votes

TBH Yorick isnt even close to one of the best splitpsuhers atm

Trundle does his job but better, as he can use his Q to auto-reset and get trinity/iceborn procs, and going tank/bruiser on him isnt terrible

Towers in general need to be buffed plain and simple

ªTeemoNov 14, 20173 votes

3 ad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnowbp88lwI

PopcornBunniNov 15, 20173 votes

The sad thing is this is literally the methodology that's been going on for a long time.

Introduce a new item, keystone mastery (or rune), or game element (jungle plants, catchup exp, etc)
A particular character ends up abusing the new element
Nerf the character that is making the most use of the new element
Other characters start abusing the element in the same way
Nerf the new element, leaving the first character that abused it in a worse spot than before it was introduced

Poppy has too strong of a shield presence with courage of the colossus? Shit, better nerf her own shield. Oh shit, other characters are breaking Courage too? Better nerf Courage. Oh, and now Poppy just has a worse shield with no compensation.

Janna abusing item 3504 ? Let's nerf Janna until Lulu Sona Taric are abusing it, then finally nerf the item.

Tanks abusing jungle catchup exp? Nerf the tank junglers before eventually reworking jungle catchup.

BUT FUCK EVER NERFING Twitch WHO'S HAD AN OBNOXIOUS PLAY PATTERN AND 53+% WINRATE FOREVER.

DragonSheaNov 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The sad thing is this is literally the methodology that's been going on for a long time.

Introduce a new item, keystone mastery (or rune), or game element (jungle plants, catchup exp, etc)

A particular character ends up abusing the new element

Nerf the character that is making the most use of the new element

Other characters start abusing the element in the same way

Nerf the new element, leaving the first character that abused it in a worse spot than before it was introduced

has too strong of a shield presence with courage of the colossus? Shit, better nerf her own shield. Oh shit, other characters are breaking Courage too? Better nerf Courage. Oh, and now Poppy just has a worse shield with no compensation.

abusing ? Let's nerf Janna until are abusing it, then finally nerf the item.

Tanks abusing jungle catchup exp? Nerf the tank junglers before eventually reworking jungle catchup.

BUT FUCK EVER NERFING WHO'S HAD AN OBNOXIOUS PLAY PATTERN AND 53+% WINRATE FOREVER.