Boards›Gameplay

Syndra Support?

hotarse··6 votes·9,729 views

So I clicked on an LCK game today and found ROX picking syndra support. In addition, SKT had picked the ever popular Malzahar support.

Is Riot alright with midlane control mages taking over the support role?

Why is this even a thing?

I will say something that will sound stupid to many of you, but I don't care. Screw it. Riot have been draining power out of support champions so much over the years that people are finally figuring out how useless they are and are picking mage champs in place of traditional support champs.

But go ahead. Keep nerfing support champs. obviously they are always the reason why teams are winning games.

However, if you take my philosophy as true, then you should simply give more power to traditional support champs. Bring them in line with where they were in season 2 and 3. Let them be strong again. Let them even be an option for the mid lane. I enjoyed Hai's Soraka mid. I knew it wouldn't last long because it was only a matter of time before teams figured out how to beat it, but Riot didn't give teams the chance. They simply ruined Soraka so that we would never see her again, mid or bot.

18 Comments

Shadòw3 votes

well better than that BS shield/heal supports likeJanna Karma Lulu

theforthwall1 votes

please explain how a support that keeps other people alive and has an average kda of 0/13/2 is more op then a support that can deal more damage then the adcs that they as a role are supposed to protect/set up p.s just because you got killed by a raka after taking 3 hits from a tower in bronze 4 season 5 e while trying to impress a girl that one time doesn't mean that those supports are op [sg-lulu]

Who Fed Ru1 votes

I don't even know if you bothered checking the date of the post, but back then enchanter supports were so OP that it wasn't even funny anymore.

Besides that, it seems like you are one of these "it does no damage so it can't be op" guys.

Ralanr2 votes

It turns out that CC, burst, range, and a desire to shut down a low MR adc in bot lane all goes hand in hand. Now they just skip the roaming part.

I feel like the entire meta is to shit on the enemy adc. That doesn't even make me feel they are weak though. If ADCs were truly weak, no one would even focus them.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

It turns out that CC, burst, range, and a desire to shut down a low MR adc in bot lane all goes hand in hand. Now they just skip the roaming part.

I feel like the entire meta is to shit on the enemy adc. That doesn't even make me feel they are weak though. If ADCs were truly weak, no one would even focus them.

well they are focusing them because you aren't just making the enemy ADC be pointless you are also making the enemy support be pointless in the game. It's essentially "let's make the game a 3v5" kind of deal at that point. Not to mention that since bot turrets are weak as hell that also means you get an even bigger advantage by shitting on the enemy duo lane since not only do you get potentially first blood you also get first turret blood which pretty much ends the game right there... unless the enemy is full of morons that have no idea what to do after that

Hethalean1 votes

Well, I would be tempted to cash in on a free 300g kill as often as possible.

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

^ this. Its the path of least resistance. Adc's need items in order to carry.if you kill them over and over in the early game, they'll never have the chance to scale.

Kaioko2 votes

Disclaimer - This is my opinion

At this point really anyone would decent base damage can support efficiently. The issue isn't so much with traditional supports but with the fact that ADCs, especially the ones that scale well late game, just are useless. There's no point in shielding, healing, buffing an ADC if they are weak in the first place.

I don't think we need to look at buffing the supports like the Janna/Lulu/Soraka/Nami etc... but rather fixing and making sure that the traditional ADCs can once again reach the level of damage and reliability in the late game that they are supposed to have.

Until then mages who have no means of supporting but can deal decent damage, provide CC and scale relatively well are just so much better especially with Liandri's and Rylai's having gotten cheaper.

hotarse1 votes

{quoted}

Disclaimer - This is my opinion

At this point really anyone would decent base damage can support efficiently. The issue isn't so much with traditional supports but with the fact that ADCs, especially the ones that scale well late game, just are useless. There's no point in shielding, healing, buffing an ADC if they are weak in the first place.

I don't think we need to look at buffing the supports like the Janna/Lulu/Soraka/Nami etc... but rather fixing and making sure that the traditional ADCs can once again reach the level of damage and reliability in the late game that they are supposed to have.

Until then mages who have no means of supporting but can deal decent damage, provide CC and scale relatively well are just so much better especially with Liandri's and Rylai's having gotten cheaper.

I appreciate your well articulated argument. I particularly like how, unlike even LCS casters, you correctly use the past participle of the verb get.

My opinion is that ADCs are actually in a good spot right now. This is where ADCs should be. We still see ADCs like Varus and Corki being played mid, and with decent results.

All that's left to really balance out the game (which by the way would do wonders toward decreasing the amount of forced support play in ranked) is to really put some power back into support kits. And I don't mean more shields or sustain. I don't care who you are, it simply is more fun to play support if you really have the potential to kill a low HP opponent or to set up a kill on a full HP opponent. To do either of these, you need damage. Riot has taken so much damage and scaling off of support kits that supports can't even do that consistently anymore.

Kaioko1 votes

{quoted}

All that's left to really balance out the game (which by the way would do wonders toward decreasing the amount of forced support play in ranked) is to really put some power back into support kits. And I don't mean more shields or sustain. I don't care who you are, it simply is more fun to play support if you really have the potential to kill a low HP opponent or to set up a kill on a full HP opponent. To do either of these, you need damage. Riot has taken so much damage and scaling off of support kits that supports can't even do that consistently anymore.

Perhaps it's a difficult argument though if you see a Janna or Nami running around chunking people's health but I'm by no means a balance expert.

The #1 change (that would actually also be easy to do at this point) that I really want to see is putting bottom lane turret back on par with all the others. Riot can keep the whole concept of first blood turrets if they feel like it, but I see absolutely no reason that bottom lane turret should not get the damage reduction the other turrets have for the first few minutes of the game.

I don't believe that change on its own will solve everything, but it will definitely be a step in the right direction and from a coding (monetary investment) it is a really easy change to do considering the coding is already available.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

She has slows and stuns... She was made to be a support in addition to her primary role. But she is bad support vs solo Q picks like Blitz, Leona and so on, because of how squishiness.

RlP K0BE1 votes

How is Riot draining power from the support role? Support items have multiple buffs on the PBE with the exception of item 3107 (which deserves the nerf it got.)

The problem is much bigger than mages being played as support now. Before the support was there to protect and peel for their adc. Since ADC's are less relevant now we see champions like Malzahar Ziggs and now Syndra being seen in the bot lane to just shit on the enemy ADC because they are so weak to begin with.

Malzahar Brand Zyra shouldn't be able to 100-0(or close to it) an ADC at level 6 with just a item 2049 in their inventory but thats just how it is.

sobi9991 votes

I am a soraka main and she really feels gutted playing against these burst mage supports. Sure the item's have been buffed but they are still not enough. Solari and redemption are not necessarily build on mage supports because they usually want to go more AP based to have increased heals/shields but are more useful on tank supports.

Krully1 votes

fortunately, in my elo, people are dumb as rocks and those that played malz cos ''ez champ hue hue'' got dicked over since they play him as an ult bot but do fuck all so its ez gg if you have have a smarts

h5LYF41Lam1 votes

after malz got reworked they reduced the range of his R,with reduced range he has to flash on the enemy to E Q R him and even then he is so close that it can easily be interupted by the support

Greymoore1 votes

Syndra was picked as a counter to Malzahar just like MissFortune is picked as a counter to Zyra. It wasn't because she makes a good support in general

LemurMonster1 votes

Looks like people are starting to see just how busted poke mages are. I seen this ever since I played Doom bots..... That game mode alone showed me how unfair they are with all that burst poke.

BlueBilberry1 votes

One thought on this - Riot, when Syndra came out, did treat her as a support. And if you look on the new and old client, she is listed in the support category (along with a few other champs you might not think of in the support category - like Heimerdinger, Kayle, Nunu and Gangplank). Here's why - I think - what some of the rationale is behind this placement.

First, she has a stun (to help protect the adc). Second, she has an AoE knockback and slow (which can be used on a group) and can rescue both botlaners from a bad situation. Third and finally, she scales in a manner well suited to supports - i.e., her utility as a support is not quite as item dependent as the many of the midlane mages. Fourth, her orbs can act as a bush check against ganks - i.e., like a temporary ward.

It's not that crazy really. Yes, it's a kill lane support. But she can fit the role when needed. Now, if only we could get a few more AD using supports when our teams blindly load up on AP users...

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by hotarse

Blue Side Advantage
Gameplay47 comments
30
votes
Is Fantasy LCS Scoring Broken?
[ARCHIVED] Fantasy LCS1 comments
7
votes
LCS Negative Impact on Gameplay?
Gameplay24 comments
6
votes
Old Client > New Client
Gameplay5 comments
5
votes
I Never Buy Pink Wards
Gameplay9 comments
4
votes
Hecarim needs a buff.
Gameplay2 comments
4
votes